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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: badchad]
    #9312621 - 11/25/08 06:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Did you know that the most recent wall street bailout bill permits the federal government to take all of your money out of your account without any notice???





And what prevents the Free Lakota Bank from doing the exact same thing?  Where is this bank even located? 
The bank is run by members of the Sovereign Lakota Nation. It is located in the Sovereign Lakota Nation inside of the Mid-western United States (but not part of it).

Its somewhat ironic that the premise of the entire bank is: "Money is only paper", yet in their current promotion "you can convert USD to Lakota and deposit directly with the Free Lakota Bank".  They are trying to help people make deposits and HONEST investments in their bank.

This bank sounds too risky for me.  As others have said, commodities will retain some element of value, so when my money buys me stock it has a certain intrinsic value that can withstand inflation.




These Native Americans pledge to protect your property with 2500 Lakota Warriors.  They pledge to protect your deposited hard money WITH THEIR LIVES.  Do you know of any other bank that makes such a statement?
Do you know about fractional reserve banking?  Such banks loan much more than what they have in deposit.  Your bank deposits are not safe.  This bank is a 100% reserve bank.  They NEVER loan more than what they have.  The federal government would have to slaughter thousands of Native Americans to get at your gold and silver deposits there.  Have you been keeping up to speed on stocks lately?  They don't look very safe to me.


These Native Americans are the ONLY bankers with real integrity.  When I came upon their website it brought tears of joy to my eyes.  I am usually not moved to such display.

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9313038 - 11/25/08 07:41 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Badchad does raise a good point, however.  I am not sure 100% as to the bank's legitimacy.  I will be in further contact with the bank.  I will also contact the Sovereign Republic of the Lakota to collect further information on the banking entity.  If they check out o.k. they are the most correct bank I have ever seen.  I will do my homework and bump this thread as soon as I have more information!

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Veritas]
    #9315857 - 11/26/08 09:31 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Wow, way too many question marks.  :lol: 

Let me ask you this--if our economy was currently booming, would you still be this hysterical over our monetary system?  When this NORMAL phase of the economic cycle ends, and everything is "fine" again, will you still be this upset?  Were you this upset a few years ago, when we had the SAME monetary system & the economy was cruising along?

There is simply no point in freaking out over this situation.  Recessions are a normal part of the economic cycle, and this one is no exception.  Our economy will eventually rebound, as it has done over and over again, and the hysteria will abate.  In the meantime, pretending that this crisis was caused by our monetary system avoids dealing with the REAL issues which need to be addressed.




Word.:thumbup:

No worries mate.


I've lived through a few of these cycles and guess what? I'm still here. In fact I've learned that if you don't pay attention to them you barely notice them. As long as you have your personal act together and aren't living out the American debters dream.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: zorbman]
    #9315865 - 11/26/08 09:34 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)


Except that throughout the history of economies the value of gold and silver has never reached zero whereas fiat currency ALWAYS reaches zero.


How did being on the gold standard prevent the great depression? Just wondering.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Icelander]
    #9316032 - 11/26/08 10:31 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Except that throughout the history of economies the value of gold and silver has never reached zero whereas fiat currency ALWAYS reaches zero.


How did being on the gold standard prevent the great depression? Just wondering.




Never said it did. However, the economy did worsen after FDR took us off the gold standard and the economy only recovered years later after WWII.

No commodity standard is a panacea- that is not what I am saying. But wouldn't anchoring our money in reality be a good start rather than beginning with an illusion destined to fail?

Commodity-based money would impose spending restraints on the welfare state as the printing of money would be limited to the government's commodity reserves.

Bottom line: We should choose to do it or we will be forced to do it when our currency finishes its final swirl round the toilet bowl..







--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: zorbman]
    #9316111 - 11/26/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

destined to fail?


This is only a prediction of yours correct? It has not failed us yet?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9316185 - 11/26/08 11:11 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
I will play nice.  Now, I would love to have your educated opinion on my questions and statements.  We can go over them 2 or 3 at a time for clarity's sake.


That's a fair enough quid pro quo, no?




I'll have to respond when I have a bit more time.  This is an interesting issue, and I do have quite a bit to say about it.  As I said, I'd rather not get into it if it is going to be an emotionally-laden discussion, but a reasonable debate on this issue would be fun.  :grin:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Veritas]
    #9316201 - 11/26/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yes yes please continue. I'm learning as we go along here.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: zorbman]
    #9317229 - 11/26/08 02:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

We had commodity based money, and had more financial catastrophes and, at times, a higher concentration of wealth in a few hands.

Of course, things aren't perfect now, but it doesn't follow that they'd be better if we used a gold standard.

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Icelander]
    #9323260 - 11/27/08 05:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Except that throughout the history of economies the value of gold and silver has never reached zero whereas fiat currency ALWAYS reaches zero.


How did being on the gold standard prevent the great depression? Just wondering.




Excellent point, for a gold standard to function the government needs to keep its hands off. We can never forget that the Federal Reserve at the time was charged with fixing the price of gold(creating a semi-fiat currency)

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Icelander]
    #9323322 - 11/27/08 05:58 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
destined to fail?


This is only a prediction of yours correct? It has not failed us yet?




I believe Zorbman is referring to the fact that in the past 2,000 years, every nation to have used a fiat currency had there money become worthless.(except coinage, even when the Romans debased there coin with filler metals, it still maintained the value of the filler)

Each time they thought it would work, and each time they were wrong.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: zorbman]
    #9323827 - 11/27/08 08:06 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Except that throughout the history of economies the value of gold and silver has never reached zero whereas fiat currency ALWAYS reaches zero.

“Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - zero."  -Voltaire




Wow, its great that you found the words of some dead guy to act as some kind of objective crystal ball into the future. What happens now and in the future isn't necessarily what happened in the past, by definition it is never the same thing in fact.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9324910 - 11/27/08 11:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Each time they thought it would work, and each time they were wrong.




Famous last words:

"This time it's different!" :lol:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: fireworks_god]
    #9326504 - 11/28/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

zorbman said:
Except that throughout the history of economies the value of gold and silver has never reached zero whereas fiat currency ALWAYS reaches zero.

“Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - zero."  -Voltaire




Wow, its great that you found the words of some dead guy to act as some kind of objective crystal ball into the future. What happens now and in the future isn't necessarily what happened in the past, by definition it is never the same thing in fact.




One of the definitions of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.

2,000 years of failure and repetition is pretty insane.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9326723 - 11/28/08 11:15 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Both gold and paper to me are worthless.

Basically as I see it it's all based on faith that someone going to back either one of those items. You can't get away from this.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Icelander]
    #9326773 - 11/28/08 11:24 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Both gold and paper to me are worthless.

Basically as I see it it's all based on faith that someone going to back either one of those items. You can't get away from this.:shrug:




Fiat currency is faith based,
Gold actually is not,
This is called scarcity,
This is called choice,
Scarcity creates desire,
Abundance destroys choice,

In a world with only a thousand apples,
I will buy an apple, and wait for nine hundred and ninety nine to be eaten.

Then I will profit

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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9326843 - 11/28/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

2000 years is scarcely even notable - inconsequential over the expanse of space and time.
Amazing our sense of self-importance, understandable but ridiculous all the same! :smile:


--------------------

--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9326880 - 11/28/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

what if no one wants gold or has faith in it?

What if a huge deposit was found and all of a sudden it wasn't scarce at all?

IMO its all about the govt and it's stability.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Icelander]
    #9327002 - 11/28/08 12:22 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
what if no one wants gold or has faith in it?

What if a huge deposit was found and all of a sudden it wasn't scarce at all?

IMO its all about the govt and it's stability.




Well, the thing about gold is it doesn't require faith.
If a huge deposit was found that would be good actually. One major drawback is that it could reach an equivalent of $60,000 per Oz in buying power.

So a huge deposit would be excellent.

Ultimately though, its not about the gold standard.
It's about getting money production out the government's hands.

Fiat currency is devised to make us dependent on centralized government

Never in all known history has man been allowed to experiment with monetary systems without government interference.

It is amazing to me that people do not research monetary policy enough to realize what taking the control of money out of the hands of government would accomplish.  The government WOULD NOT have the ABILITY to oppress people.  There would be no wars that people did not support.  Nightmarish scenarios like 1984 would simply NOT BE POSSIBLE.  Sociological manipulation would NOT BE POSSIBLE.  People in charge of money = Peace and Prosperity
Government in charge of money = War and Enslavement

I realize a lot of the information I am posting here is somewhat foreign.  Iceman, I ask you to please (at your convenience) checkout mises.org.  It just makes sense. I know that I am not anywhere near as learned or as eloquent as the individuals found on that site.  If we are at least on the same page we can begin to make sense of the mess that is called the American economy.

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Free Lakota Bank [Re: Veritas]
    #9327089 - 11/28/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
I will play nice.  Now, I would love to have your educated opinion on my questions and statements.  We can go over them 2 or 3 at a time for clarity's sake.


That's a fair enough quid pro quo, no?




I'll have to respond when I have a bit more time.  This is an interesting issue, and I do have quite a bit to say about it.  As I said, I'd rather not get into it if it is going to be an emotionally-laden discussion, but a reasonable debate on this issue would be fun.  :grin:




Hey I realize this time of the year is hectic.
I am going to spend some more time on mises.org and educate myself on monetary and economic policy.
I'm sure there will be plenty of time for getting to the bottom of the world's economic woes.
I consider monetary policy to be at the heart of our problems.  Maybe we will all look at the problems by ourselves and we can all bring some more information to the discussion.

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