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OfflineEpigallo
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Registered: 09/17/06
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Cosmic significance of self
    #9292544 - 11/22/08 04:11 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It's commonly concluded that we're completely unimportant, as the whole human race doesn't even make up a perceptible speck in the grand assembly of galaxies.

But, on any scale we have discovered, we see that every thing is both a part of some larger thing, and an assembly of smaller things. This seems to indicate there is no fundamental particle from which all life springs; as much as you can zoom out, you can zoom in.

If importance means having a significant effect on the universe, this shows that when zooming in, our importance is infinite, and when zooming out, our unimportance is infinite.

Therefore, attempting to quantify the absolute importance of ourselves or our actions would be meaningless.


Edited by Epigallo (11/22/08 04:20 PM)


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Offlinemilkman
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9292899 - 11/22/08 05:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

well said


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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9293095 - 11/22/08 05:32 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

We are currently "zoomed in" on the human aspect of the universe.  We are important if we decide to see ourselves that way.


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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9293775 - 11/22/08 07:33 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
It's commonly concluded that we're completely unimportant, as the whole human race doesn't even make up a perceptible speck in the grand assembly of galaxies.

But, on any scale we have discovered, we see that every thing is both a part of some larger thing, and an assembly of smaller things. This seems to indicate there is no fundamental particle from which all life springs; as much as you can zoom out, you can zoom in.

If importance means having a significant effect on the universe, this shows that when zooming in, our importance is infinite, and when zooming out, our unimportance is infinite.

Therefore, attempting to quantify the absolute importance of ourselves or our actions would be meaningless.




Seeing ourselves as Important or Unimportant is humanising the universe. Looking at it universally, we're no more or less important that anything else that is, be it a black hole or a bowl of rice.

Everything is the same. Noone hould give a fuck


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


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Offlinemyriadeyes
man with a movie camera

Registered: 10/13/08
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: mr_kite]
    #9294807 - 11/22/08 11:23 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Is a 6 foot man more important than a 5 foot man? A horse than a man? I think this supposed ratio of size to importance only feels plausible when one of the sizes involved is very great - which betrays the true basis of this type of thought. If this relation is achieved by reason, it should hold true universally - that small differences in size would be accompanied by small differences in importance. I think the importance we attach to great differences of size is not from reason, but from our emotions. IMO one cannot approach the importance of human beings from this angle.


--------------------
If you spare a little of your imagination . . .


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OfflineEpigallo
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9294871 - 11/22/08 11:35 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It's not quite size we place importance on, but the size of impact we perceive. Naturally larger things seem to make bigger dents (usually).


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OfflineEpigallo
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9294914 - 11/22/08 11:44 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Seeing ourselves as Important or Unimportant is humanising the universe.




Not necessarily. One can look at importance with a detached scientific judgment; a physics problem might have unimportant variables, for example. If you are looking at the resonance of a bridge, wind gusts might be important, but not the sound vibrations from car stereos.


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OfflineEpigallo
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9294924 - 11/22/08 11:48 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Looking at it universally, we're no more or less important that anything else that is, be it a black hole or a bowl of rice.

Everything is the same.




My point was that it isn't. This is just a view, where the magnification is low (zoomed out) from far away and we become obscured and indistinct.

Oh well, I'm not sure my point has any practical value anyway.


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Offlinemyriadeyes
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9294957 - 11/22/08 11:54 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
It's not quite size we place importance on, but the size of impact we perceive. Naturally larger things seem to make bigger dents (usually).




Exactly. I don't see there being a significant difference between size and impact. I don't believe the importance of something can be determined by its "significant effect". Do not real variations of importance only exist when coinciding with the idea of objective truth? Otherwise, from a naturalistic viewpoint, I am as important as an atom as a galaxy as a universe - the only thing more important (and it may not be either) is "the whole show" or the thing "going on of it's own accord" - the totality of Nature.


--------------------
If you spare a little of your imagination . . .


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InvisibleJ3illy
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Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9295023 - 11/23/08 12:07 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Personally I feel when ppl start thinking the whole "humans and everything on earth doesn't matter in the BIG scheme of things" - they need to snap out of it and start concentrating on the small scheme of things.  It's cool to think about sometimes, sure - but having that mentality is gonna get you nowhere in this life.  Our life we have here is what matters to US, and that's that.  Don't let it pass you by thinking about ambiguous shit that we'll never comprehend anyways.


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Offlinemyriadeyes
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: J3illy]
    #9295034 - 11/23/08 12:10 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Hey now, don't jump to conclusions. I believe in objective Truth.


--------------------
If you spare a little of your imagination . . .


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OfflineEpigallo
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: J3illy]
    #9295060 - 11/23/08 12:16 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I sort of agree, I mean the big scheme is a nice argument for not fretting or worrying too much, but compared to the microscopic schemes we are like our own (planets?) or something, or even larger depending how small you compare to.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9295691 - 11/23/08 02:45 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Why do people try to judge their importance to the universe?

Id say we mean nothing in the 'big scheme of things'. Id say that there is no such thing as 'objective' meaning.

but that doesn't matter anyway

all that matters is our importance to eachother


--------------------


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: mr_kite]
    #9295692 - 11/23/08 02:46 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mr_kite said:
Seeing ourselves as Important or Unimportant is humanising the universe.




Maybe refusing to categorize humans as important or unimportant is an attempt to universalize humanity...:strokebeard3:


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OfflinePlasmid
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9295730 - 11/23/08 03:06 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

It's commonly concluded that we're completely unimportant




Who cares what the brainless masses think?  I mean, who is commonly concluding this?  I wouldn't listen to anyone who thinks they can come to that kind of conclusion.  (I wonder if you just said that for effect though, simply because this isn't something I hear people say)

We're important to our selves.  Isn't that enough?


--------------------
Absent.


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OfflineEpigallo
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9295755 - 11/23/08 03:18 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I don't understand if y'all are in disagreement, or elaborating, or what. :confused:



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OfflineBooby
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9295805 - 11/23/08 03:29 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Markthegnostic may have a better reference than I, but there is a perspective that we are the grain, the food that the gods eat who walk amongst us. As the sustenance begotten from a fertilized Earth.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineEpigallo
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Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Booby]
    #9295814 - 11/23/08 03:32 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Of course there is. There's lots of perspectives. :yesnod:


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Epigallo]
    #9296081 - 11/23/08 06:16 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Absolutley speaking nothing has menaing
Relatively speaking it all has meaning

Both are wrong

Everything is cosmically wiped away, so what can have meaning?
Yet relatively we codepend on each other to exist so we all have meaning.

Its where we relate to each other that gives our life meaning, yet the nature of relationship is meaningless as there is only one, therefore both are empty philosophies apprently contradicting each other, not able to exist without the other

If you can comment on reality & come to a conclusion, then your wrong

You can say nothing is ever happening or that everything possible is happening, but there's still no '2 ways' about it :wink:


--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (11/23/08 06:25 AM)


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Cosmic significance of self [Re: Chronic7]
    #9296392 - 11/23/08 09:05 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Man I'm so wrong I'm right. Throw that Dr. Phil fucker out of here. :lol:


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