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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Disillusion
#9284754 - 11/21/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Comes from being lied to about the true conditions of existence. This is what the culture does for us and what our parents do for us.
If the initial lie was not told and programmed there would, IMO, be nothing to be disillusioned about. How different the experience of being alive might be for many of us.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Disillusion [Re: Icelander]
#9285555 - 11/21/08 01:29 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Part of life is being sucked into illusion, to dream, we love it really
If we cant dream then we cant taste waking up
We have to taste objective ignorance & the pain of it before we return to our inherent intuitive wisdom
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Disillusion [Re: Chronic7]
#9285628 - 11/21/08 01:45 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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whoops! how are you using this word??? is it a noun, or part of a verb (to disillusion) is it in a pleasant context, such as coming out of a clouded understanding to a clearer way of thinking? or is it being presented as a problem, such as "in a perfect world we wouldn't need to be disillusioned"
bear in mind, that our experience of the world is built up over time, and is only partly based upon what people say, the rest of the illusion is what we invent to simplify our daily routine.
this would mean that we have to change the oil every 2500 miles anyway
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mr_kite
The Watcher



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Re: Disillusion [Re: Icelander]
#9285846 - 11/21/08 02:31 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Comes from being lied to about the true conditions of existence. This is what the culture does for us and what our parents do for us.
If the initial lie was not told and programmed there would, IMO, be nothing to be disillusioned about. How different the experience of being alive might be for many of us.
I made a similar post a while back. The path humanity has taken is surely not the inevitable outcome of our genetics. A child brought up by a pack of wild dogs behaves and barks like a dog and diplays no "human" intelligence - it's had no stimulus (http://www.feralchildren.com/en/index.php). A baby is in many ways as much a blank canvas as genetic inevitability IMO; we're limited by our past chance experiences and resulting evolution as a race.
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Disillusion [Re: mr_kite]
#9285869 - 11/21/08 02:35 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its surprising how natural this is too.
"Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains. One man thinks himself the master of others, but remains more of a slave than they."
Jean-Jacques Rousseau, the only political philosopher Ive found worth reading.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Disillusion [Re: mr_kite]
#9285893 - 11/21/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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When I was in Tonga and Fiji, the native Pacific Islanders were some of the nicest people you would ever want to meet.
The relocated and/or second generation Tongans I encountered in San Jose, CA are some of the meanest bastards you would ever want to meet.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: When I was in Tonga and Fiji, the native Pacific Islanders were some of the nicest people you would ever want to meet.
The relocated and/or second generation Tongans I encountered in San Jose, CA are some of the meanest bastards you would ever want to meet.
Interesting, I spent several months in Fiji. I learned they were once the scariest cannibals in the pacific until conquered by the Europeans and given religion.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Disillusion [Re: Icelander]
#9287193 - 11/21/08 06:01 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Disillusion is to function without illusion. It has nothing to do with lies, but with perception. Choosing to believe the words of another or not is personal responsibility. If one could truly be "disillusioned" it would be a blessed state. The job of the mind is to create illusion.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Thanks for pointing out the misuse of a common term. Now would you like to comment on the topic?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Disillusion [Re: Icelander]
#9293276 - 11/22/08 05:56 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lol...it is not a lie. Other people told us their illusions and we chose to believe them....funny one... Once responsibility is taken we can revise our belief and create an illusion that is more aesthetically pleasing....but it is ALL illusion. Disillusion is impossible.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Epigallo
Stranger

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I must say I agree, pretty much.
Constant bouts of disillusionment seems natural.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


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Re: Disillusion [Re: Epigallo]
#9295721 - 11/23/08 03:00 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well this thread is about 'delusion'
babies and children often aren't told the truth. Maybe they cant handle the truth without reacting radically. Thus they grow up with seeded delusions (belief of false realities from being taught untruths as truths).
When people realise their parents and authorities are only human just like them, they might decide to think for themselves
it takes a very skilled parent to teach their children the absolute truth about life and death and everything in between without creating lies or saying things are 'because i said so' or 'because it just is' when there is actually more to the story
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Plasmid
Absent


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Re: Disillusion [Re: Icelander]
#9295744 - 11/23/08 03:15 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Comes from being lied to about the true conditions of existence.
Disillusionment is freedom from an illusion. Lies are not the only sources of illusions. You can believe illusions due to poor reasoning or because you don't have enough perspective and/or information to produce an accurate model of something. I don't think that lies are necessarily the source of the majority of illusions.
Quote:
This is what the culture does for us and what our parents do for us.
It's not necessarily lies. One of my biggest disillusionments came when I realized that all of the idealism about psychedelic drugs producing enlightenment and insight was complete and utter nonsense. When I argue against such idealism here, I am struck by the fact that most posters are quite earnest about such idealism. Hence, if I take what you are saying to be true, then I have to assume that people on the Shroomery are liars and that people like Leary and all of the other psychedelic idealists were liars. I don't think that they're lying. I just think that they're misguided, egotistical people who let their idealism get in the way of their judgement.
Quote:
If the initial lie was not told and programmed there would
I hate to break it to you, but I don't think that there is any "big lie."
I totally disagree with you and don't think you've thought this through to any extent. Disillusionment does not only come from realizing that you have been lied to, but comes from realizing that your expectations about what is true were wrong. Your expectations can be wrong because you were lied to, but that's not the only reason.
Very poor. I give you a D-.
-------------------- Absent.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Disillusion [Re: Plasmid]
#9295844 - 11/23/08 03:44 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Plasmid said: One of my biggest disillusionments came when I realized that all of the idealism about psychedelic drugs producing enlightenment and insight was complete and utter nonsense.
Ur doin it wrong.
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Booby
Agent Mulder

Registered: 09/14/05
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
Quote:
Plasmid said: One of my biggest disillusionments came when I realized that all of the idealism about psychedelic drugs producing enlightenment and insight was complete and utter nonsense.
Ur doin it wrong.
If "The Kingdom Of God Is Inside " then I think it is obvious that the kingdom of god needs something from outside itself to complete itself. That's my rationale for drug use.
-------------------- Let it not be remembered That mycelium eats detritus and dies But that life in all it's glory Counts mycelium to be on it's side.
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Ratci
Esper<3



Registered: 08/27/08
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Re: Disillusion [Re: Booby]
#9296906 - 11/23/08 11:58 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think one of the biggest delusions we endure is language. By having acquired the ability to communicate with each other, we've lost the ability to perceive the world without labeling it.
-------------------- People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. --Albert Einstein
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Kupo
Kupop!


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Re: Disillusion [Re: Ratci]
#9297656 - 11/23/08 02:23 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I like silence
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bbt0009
Stranger Lover


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Re: Disillusion [Re: Kupo]
#9300821 - 11/23/08 10:26 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think some of you think way too much about things lol. Plasmid, I agree with you on an 'I couldn't give a damn' level. I choose not to trip myself out about a deeper meaning to everything. I enjoy trippin, it's fun as shit but as soon as someone starts trying to talk about philosophy my mind wanders somewhere else. Usually to a cool jungle or sometimes a tunnel that leads to a big ass water fall that i'll jump off of and land on my living room floor coming back to reality like WTF lol.
-------------------- It was all a dream...
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Disillusion [Re: bbt0009]
#9300870 - 11/23/08 10:34 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I enjoy trippin, it's fun as shit but as soon as someone starts trying to talk about philosophy my mind wanders somewhere else. Usually to a cool jungle or sometimes a tunnel that leads to a big ass water fall that i'll jump off of and land on my living room floor coming back to reality like WTF lol.
Last time that happened to me, I had lept out of the Plaza's third floor and landed on the roof of a limosine.
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bbt0009
Stranger Lover


Registered: 11/11/08
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Last time that happened to me, I had lept out of the Plaza's third floor and landed on the roof of a limosine.
LMAO that's what i'm talkin about!
-------------------- It was all a dream...
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