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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Living in the moment is Tao, but Tao isn't necessarily living in the moment.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Last I checked, The Tao was out on the golf course playing with The Now.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
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Where was the brown cow in all of this?!?
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper




Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Last I checked, The Tao was out on the golf course playing with The Now.
Yeah, same here.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
Cracka_X said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Last I checked, The Tao was out on the golf course playing with The Now.
Yeah, same here.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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indulging the senses in as many external pleasures as possible??
Not necessarily. Hedonism is choosing for yourself what really would make you happy and then pursuing it. Everyone is trying to be happy including you. Many people choose paths that really don't reach the goal. It's all in the skillfulness of your choosing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ratci
Esper<3



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 1,039
Loc: Coumbia MD
Last seen: 11 years, 1 day
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said: Living in the moment is Tao, but Tao isn't necessarily living in the moment.
That's what I like to call "squares and rectangles," but whenever I say it, no one gets it.
Spread the expression
-------------------- People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. --Albert Einstein
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Bernackums
The universe will have its way.



Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 865
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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That must be the third time this week you've had to correct someone of misinformed Hedonism. I'd say someone should make a thread posting the correct definition, but I'm certain it's been done a few times.
-------------------- Let's get the fuck out of here.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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P&S thrives on repetition.
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (11/24/08 06:36 PM)
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Sense, huh? I'm all about nonsense... way more fun!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said: Living in the moment is Tao, but Tao isn't necessarily living in the moment.
Not living in the moment is Tao. Or did I miss that part in the Tao rule book?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 30 days, 23 hours
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I really don't think science has any important answers for us but it does have value.
That leaves logic. My attempt at logic says there is only Tao and being self aware, which causes death anxiety. Nothing fun or comforting here. But then there's hedonism and living for the moment.
This may be the ace in the whole.
And.. it makes sense.
Hedonism is being enslaved to the senses. There is no freedom in hedonism. When you are truly in the now all sense of time disappears. Time definitely gets funny whenever you are focused very strongly for a period of "time". For awhile you experience timelessness and a measure of freedom that goes along with it. This new feeling becomes addictive...
Hedonism is not being intensely focused. It is a state of searching for mindless entertainment. Hedonistic mind is like a bored couch potato channel surfing, it is distracted and out of focus. Being in a state of focus and concentrated awareness is difficult for all beginners. It is the difficulty that necessitates the concentration in the first place. Your focus drops into yourself and your experience becomes qualitatively different.
This change of time experience is an indication that you are becoming aware that reality is far larger than the narrow constraints of "consensus reality".
A nihilistic viewpoint can act as a blinder if it gets stuck on your perspective. Reason being is that whatever you focus on becomes stronger and more real for you.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Sense [Re: Mr.Al]
#9309628 - 11/25/08 09:29 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Obviously you missed the explanation of true hedonism.
You may go on about your business.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Nexion
Seeker


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 648
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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"Live in the now mannnn!"
Who says you have 'suscribe' to any philosophy or religion or belief system, just live. Fuck questions and answers and interpretations, there are only experiences.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 30 days, 23 hours
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Hedonism has connotations, for myself, that lead to unproductive dead ends. I would certainly entertain a discussion on what you phrase "true hedonism".
I have noticed that difficult experiences, when embraced, produce personal growth. This does not jive with my understanding of hedonism. I have started doing yoga everyday as of late. Finding the edge of a posture and holding it is difficult and definitely increases concentration. Thoughts dissipate in the concentration and sense of time disappears with the thoughts.
My take is that self discipline equals freedom. Again, self discipline does not seem to go well with hedonism.
We perhaps have very different definitions of the word. If you feel like giving me your definition, by all means.
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Nexion
Seeker


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 648
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Sense [Re: Mr.Al]
#9309737 - 11/25/08 09:51 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Sense [Re: Mr.Al]
#9309750 - 11/25/08 09:55 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you read this whole thread you would have come across my definition of what I call enlightened hedonism.
I have started doing yoga everyday as of late. Finding the edge of a posture and holding it is difficult and definitely increases concentration. Thoughts dissipate in the concentration and sense of time disappears with the thoughts.
You have just described it. You do this all for your pleasure even though you know there is work and even some pain involved. The outcome (you hope) is a more relaxed and joyful state of being. Now what could be more hedonistic than that? Grubbing additively after some thrill or momentary bauble is actually the antithesis of hedonism in my book. Why? Because it doesn't bring long term pleasure or the cost/benefit ratio is not good.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Sense [Re: Mr.Al]
#9309764 - 11/25/08 09:59 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would distinguish between the type of mindless consumerism you've deemed "hedonism" and a rational pleasure-finding mindset which I call hedonism.
It is clear that short-range, fear- and greed-based consumerism is not a pleasure-oriented philosophy. It is primarily a pain-avoidance pursuit, and the brief pleasures are rarely savored as they become worthless as soon as they cease to be novel.
Contrast this with a pleasure-finding philosophy, in which one utilizes rationality to reduce self-inflicted suffering, and activities are savored as long as they last, to be released as gracefully as possible when they end. This is not a self-denying ascetic lifestyle, in which the "lower" pleasures are seen as wrong or sinful, but one in which a variety of pleasures are valued.
The Flow state you described is key to such a lifestyle, as entering into this state is a sign of full engagement in an activity. Maslow called these activities "peak moments," and believed that a satisfying life would include as many as possible. THIS is true hedonism.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Sense [Re: Veritas]
#9309772 - 11/25/08 10:00 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes indeedy.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 30 days, 23 hours
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Re: Sense [Re: Nexion]
#9309801 - 11/25/08 10:10 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sometimes something that doesn't make sense can act like a roshach ink blot. It can pull things out from parts of your mind that you are not consciously aware of.
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