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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: Sense [Re: Cracka_X]
    #9298030 - 11/23/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Living in the moment is Tao, but Tao isn't necessarily living in the moment.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Sense [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9298057 - 11/23/08 03:20 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Last I checked, The Tao was out on the golf course playing with The Now.


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OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
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Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
Re: Sense [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9298123 - 11/23/08 03:30 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Where was the brown cow in all of this?!?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: Sense [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9298879 - 11/23/08 05:41 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Last I checked, The Tao was out on the golf course playing with The Now.




Yeah, same here.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: Sense [Re: Cracka_X]
    #9299240 - 11/23/08 06:35 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cracka_X said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Last I checked, The Tao was out on the golf course playing with The Now.




Yeah, same here.




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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Sense [Re: Chronic7]
    #9302769 - 11/24/08 09:13 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

indulging the senses in as many external pleasures as possible??

Not necessarily. Hedonism is choosing for yourself what really would make you happy and then pursuing it. Everyone is trying to be happy including you. Many people choose paths that really don't reach the goal. It's all in the skillfulness of your choosing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineRatci
Esper<3
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Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 1,039
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Re: Sense [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9303849 - 11/24/08 12:25 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Living in the moment is Tao, but Tao isn't necessarily living in the moment.




That's what I like to call "squares and rectangles," but whenever I say it, no one gets it.

Spread the expression :wink:


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People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. --Albert Einstein


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OfflineBernackums
The universe will have its way.
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Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 865
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Sense [Re: Icelander]
    #9305140 - 11/24/08 04:21 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

That must be the third time this week you've had to correct someone of misinformed Hedonism. I'd say someone should make a thread posting the correct definition, but I'm certain it's been done a few times.


--------------------
Let's get the fuck out of here.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: Sense [Re: Bernackums]
    #9305260 - 11/24/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

P&S thrives on repetition.


--------------------


Edited by OrgoneConclusion (11/24/08 06:36 PM)


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Sense [Re: Icelander]
    #9305666 - 11/24/08 05:53 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Sense, huh? I'm all about nonsense... way more fun!


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Sense [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9309546 - 11/25/08 09:09 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Living in the moment is Tao, but Tao isn't necessarily living in the moment.




Not living in the moment is Tao.:shrug: Or did I miss that part in the Tao rule book?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 30 days, 23 hours
Re: Sense [Re: Icelander]
    #9309620 - 11/25/08 09:26 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:


I really don't think science has any important answers for us but it does have value.

That leaves logic. My attempt at logic says there is only Tao and being self aware, which causes death anxiety. Nothing fun or comforting here. But then there's hedonism and living for the moment.

This may be the ace in the whole.

And.. it makes sense.




Hedonism is being enslaved to the senses.  There is no freedom in hedonism.  When you are truly in the now all sense of time disappears.  Time definitely gets funny whenever you are focused very strongly for a period of "time".  For awhile you experience timelessness and a measure of freedom that goes along with it.  This new feeling becomes addictive...

Hedonism is not being intensely focused.  It is a state of searching for mindless entertainment.  Hedonistic mind is like a bored couch potato channel surfing, it is distracted and out of focus.  Being in a state of focus and concentrated awareness is difficult for all beginners.  It is the difficulty that necessitates the concentration in the first place.  Your focus drops into yourself and your experience becomes qualitatively different.

This change of time experience is an indication that you are becoming aware that reality is far larger than the narrow constraints of "consensus reality".

A nihilistic viewpoint can act as a blinder if it gets stuck on your perspective.  Reason being is that whatever you focus on becomes stronger and more real for you.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Sense [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9309628 - 11/25/08 09:29 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Obviously you missed the explanation of true hedonism.

You may go on about your business.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNexion
Seeker
Male

Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 648
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Sense [Re: Icelander]
    #9309654 - 11/25/08 09:35 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

"Live in the now mannnn!"

Who says you have 'suscribe' to any philosophy or religion or belief system, just live. Fuck questions and answers and interpretations, there are only experiences.


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OfflineMr.Al
Alphabet soup
Male


Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 30 days, 23 hours
Re: Sense [Re: Icelander]
    #9309695 - 11/25/08 09:42 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Hedonism has connotations, for myself, that lead to unproductive dead ends.  I would certainly entertain a discussion on what you phrase "true hedonism".

I have noticed that difficult experiences, when embraced, produce personal growth.  This does not jive with my understanding of hedonism.  I have started doing yoga everyday as of late.  Finding the edge of a posture and holding it is difficult and definitely increases concentration.  Thoughts dissipate in the concentration and sense of time disappears with the thoughts.

My take is that self discipline equals freedom.  Again, self discipline does not seem to go well with hedonism.

We perhaps have very different definitions of the word.
If you feel like giving me your definition, by all means.


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OfflineNexion
Seeker
Male

Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 648
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Sense [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9309737 - 11/25/08 09:51 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)



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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Sense [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9309750 - 11/25/08 09:55 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

If you read this whole thread you would have come across my definition of what I call enlightened hedonism.

I have started doing yoga everyday as of late.  Finding the edge of a posture and holding it is difficult and definitely increases concentration.  Thoughts dissipate in the concentration and sense of time disappears with the thoughts.

You have just described it. You do this all for your pleasure even though you know there is work and even some pain involved. The outcome (you hope) is a more relaxed and joyful state of being. Now what could be more hedonistic than that? Grubbing additively after some thrill or momentary bauble is actually the antithesis of hedonism in my book. Why? Because it doesn't bring long term pleasure or the cost/benefit ratio is not good.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Sense [Re: Mr.Al]
    #9309764 - 11/25/08 09:59 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I would distinguish between the type of mindless consumerism you've deemed "hedonism" and a rational pleasure-finding mindset which I call hedonism.

It is clear that short-range, fear- and greed-based consumerism  is not a pleasure-oriented philosophy.  It is primarily a pain-avoidance pursuit, and the brief pleasures are rarely savored as they become worthless as soon as they cease to be novel.

Contrast this with a pleasure-finding philosophy, in which one utilizes rationality to reduce self-inflicted suffering, and activities are savored as long as they last, to be released as gracefully as possible when they end.  This is not a self-denying ascetic lifestyle, in which the "lower" pleasures are seen as wrong or sinful, but one in which a variety of pleasures are valued.

The Flow state you described is key to such a lifestyle, as entering into this state is a sign of full engagement in an activity.  Maslow called these activities "peak moments," and believed that a satisfying life would include as many as possible.  THIS is true hedonism.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Sense [Re: Veritas]
    #9309772 - 11/25/08 10:00 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yes indeedy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 30 days, 23 hours
Re: Sense [Re: Nexion]
    #9309801 - 11/25/08 10:10 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Sometimes something that doesn't make sense can act like a roshach ink blot.  It can pull things out from parts of your mind that you are not consciously aware of.


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