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 Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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 Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish?  [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9280070 - 11/20/08 04:53 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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> most of these guys get paid $25+/hr to watch a machine work
Closer to $60/hr plus benefits, but who is counting...
> alternately GM closes it's doors, the company releases it's employees, restructures, hires new employees
That is the plan I prefer... if bailout money is to go somewhere, let it go to the suppliers to keep the solvent so that the other car manufacturers are not taken down as well.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Seuss]
#9280123 - 11/20/08 05:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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That would my preference as well.
But I'm nearly sure they are just going to be given a large sum of money with few strings attached.
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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 Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Seuss]
#9280471 - 11/20/08 05:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> most of these guys get paid $25+/hr to watch a machine work
Closer to $60/hr plus benefits, but who is counting...
when my uncle smokey retired he was at $35/hr, his wife was
at $32, the average when they retired was about $25 and I was
hoping it wasnt that high yet but I could see that
Quote:
> alternately GM closes it's doors, the company releases it's employees, restructures, hires new employees
That is the plan I prefer... if bailout money is to go somewhere, let it go to the suppliers to keep the solvent so that the other car manufacturers are not taken down as well.
2008 GM closed the doors on the doraville plant, but they
were able to dump $1bn into building a plant in mexico in
addition to the other plants they had their... let mexico
bail them out since the second largest source of their money
is the US
http://www.carseek.com/news/february2008/GM-Mexican-transmission-plant/
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9280486 - 11/20/08 05:52 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
That would my preference as well.
But I'm nearly sure they are just going to be given a large sum of money with few strings attached.
we need more wooden arrows damn it!
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9280792 - 11/20/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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> when my uncle smokey retired
I'm curious how long ago that was. (I'm not making a point, but want to see how bad things have inflated with time.)
> but they were able to dump $1bn into building a plant in mexico
Which goes to show how much labor is costing them. It is cheaper to retool operations in another country than to continue in the current location. (Again, I am not blaming the problems on labor only; management is responsible for the fiasco as well.)
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Seuss]
#9281083 - 11/20/08 07:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> when my uncle smokey retired
I'm curious how long ago that was. (I'm not making a point, but want to see how bad things have inflated with time.)
15 years, something I just learned from my mom is that
someone wanted to buy his wifes seniority, I mean WTF,
buy 28 years of time in the company?
> but they were able to dump $1bn into building a plant in mexico
Quote:
I am not blaming the problems on labor only; management is responsible for the fiasco as well.)
it's all managements fault, employees were ding what
employees do, bitch about how little they get paid, the UAW
does what they do, claim the benefit package wasnt enough,
that they needed to be paid the same during layoffs and for
time in rehab, management had the ability to terminate
everyone with just a little legal wrangling or simply take
the hardline approach
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phi1618
old hand
Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Seuss]
#9281096 - 11/20/08 07:19 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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They have dealership problems, as well, and a lot of debt. All problems that could be solved in a government-sponsored Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
Pris - due to existing contracts, they can't reorganize outside of bk, and due to the current financial situation they can't go Chapter 11 without help. Chapter 7 would be really bad for everybody, particularly with the economy as bad as it already seems to be getting.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: phi1618]
#9281594 - 11/20/08 08:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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and bailing them out would be better?
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: johnm214]
#9282523 - 11/20/08 11:34 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Could someone fill me in here? I don't get why they want this money and what good it will do.
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.”
-- Herbert Spencer, English philosopher
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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: johnm214]
#9282728 - 11/21/08 12:29 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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The bailouts are intended to prevent a spending crisis. If GM cuts five million jobs (which it might) that is going to cause a downward spiral of spending. Other companies will have to lower their prices to encourage consumption, but by doing this they will also have to layoff their own employees, which will decrease the spending power of consumers even more, causing other companies to cut their prices and then cut their employment as well, and so on and so on. (See: the Great Depression)
That is the Keynesian interpretation of it, at least.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9283203 - 11/21/08 02:30 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
you cant ensure they wont keep fucking up, get rid of current management, bring in new incompetence, pump $25bn into propping them up just to have them building more shit cars and paying drunks to lay out of work, the problem isnt the mismanagement, it's the UAW
Huh? A moment ago you were blaming the management?
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
my point is GM needs to prop up GM, Ford needs to support
Ford, if the company cant operate under the current methods
and maintain profitability then they need to restructure
their operations, the over seas operations grossed in excess
of $45bn, why is that money not going to support their US
operations
GM has the cash and momentum to keep pace with toyota in the
foreign markets and yet they're begging for a handout in the
US, they've been the #1 automaker for 76 years, why again are
they stupid when handling the US market
So which is it? Mismanagement of the market, or the UAW's fault? I say it's GMs fault for not following the market, AND for not making reasonable deals with the union. Other companies deal with unions and don't go bankrupt, why would GM be any different? I say it all points to one thing: spectacular incompetence at the highest level. Same goes for Ford. The management must be removed.
--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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phi1618
old hand
Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9283626 - 11/21/08 06:09 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm suggesting a government sponsored Chapter 11. I think this will be best for everybody, even if it might qualify as a "bailout".
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: phi1618]
#9284907 - 11/21/08 12:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm suggesting no money for multibillion dollar companies,
force them to seek private financing, when they go under, the
banks can deal with the selling of GMs assets
obviously 1.5 billion did so well when congress passed the
Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979, that
guaranteed the government would be stuck buying chrysler
products for a decade, wonderful products like the K-Car, a
POS that leaked from the cylinder head all over the showroom
floor... have you seen any K-Cars on the road in the last 20
years? that's the garbage the US was forced to buy
thanks but no thanks, they couldnt run the company the first
or second time, why give them a 3rd chance when just last
year that got a $7.5bn boost from Cerberus Capital
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9284976 - 11/21/08 12:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm kind of amazed that people who make multi-million dollar bonuses can't run a company. And yet... we want them to keep on trying. 
Sounds like most of the places I've worked. Except the bonuses were smaller.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Icelander]
#9285073 - 11/21/08 12:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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america is all about rewards for the stupid and lazy
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9285140 - 11/21/08 12:36 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can you blame em when they get a big bonus for it.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deekay
Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 3,220
Loc: 
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Icelander]
#9285541 - 11/21/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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No more bailouts, period! i think what we need more, and before, anything else is a reality check for these reckless companies that they, and they alone, will be held accountable for the mess they create and will suffer the repercussions. Also, i have a suspicion a solid portion of the bailout money is being privately invested so when this all does, and it will, inevitably collapse they'll have all the money they want after all is said and done.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Deekay]
#9297791 - 11/23/08 02:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just saw a commercial for Ford's F150. They added foldout steps to the tailgate and the sides of the bed.
I think we're saved.
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Discuss Politics
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Ferris]
#9297979 - 11/23/08 03:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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We won't be saved until Ford invents an engine that can run entirely on endangered animals. With an extra-wide-mouth fuel tank, so you can force those critters in even when they're struggling.
That, or whale blubber. That shit's got a high octane rating, I'm sure.
--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 19 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: Auto Bailout in US. What is this supposed to accomplish? [Re: Seuss]
#9298250 - 11/23/08 03:54 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Freedom to assemble except in unions, lol, right man, keep preachin it.
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