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Invisible04281969
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What type of peppermint oil
    #9265519 - 11/18/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

...is used in this LSH experiment?

Are people using peppermint essential oil, or the flavoring from the baking aisle?


--------------------
HCL x 1.63 = M.C.
H2SO4 x 1.3 = M.C.
H2SO4 x .80 = HCL
M.C. x .61 = HCL
M.C. x .77 = H2SO4
HCL x 1.25 = H2SO4


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: What type of peppermint oil [Re: 04281969]
    #9265682 - 11/18/08 12:29 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Peppermint essential oil. The flavoring from the baking aisle probably works, but it's possible that it's just a mix of menthol and a carrier liquid (glycerin or ethanol), which wouldn't be any good.


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Re: What type of peppermint oil [Re: 04281969]
    #9265693 - 11/18/08 12:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

There is no reason to think that adding peppermint oil to LSA will produce LSH.


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: What type of peppermint oil [Re: Plasmid]
    #9265745 - 11/18/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

That's correct (a biochemist on another board said that he had a journal article which argues to the contrary, but I'm with you until I see that article... perhaps I'd better bump that thread)

But as we've gone over before, layman typically use the term LSH to refer to the altered LSA adducts which are likely to form in the presence of acetaldehyde. Sure, no double-blind study has been performed on this (nor has one been performed on the lemon tek for psilocybin mushrooms for that matter), but there is a substantial bulk of reports that adding peppermint oil drastically alters the effect of MGS/HBWR CWEs. I can personally attest to this.


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OfflinePlasmid
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Re: What type of peppermint oil [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9265802 - 11/18/08 12:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Does that person on the other board provide a reference?

The changes in effects may not be due to adduct formation at all of course.  There are a number of possible explanations and nobody has yet even demonstrated that any reaction takes place.

As for the bulk of reports, which all come from biased sources: the bigger that bulk gets, the more likely it is to appear valid and the more likely it is to influence others' experiences with MG+peppermint.

The different effects may not be due to a reaction between acetaldehyde and an ergot alkaloid at all.  I still maintain that placebo has not been ruled out (even though this is not my favourite explanation).

It is misleading to use "LSH" so I will continue to object whenever I see anyone talking about LSH when there is clearly no reason to think that this is the reaction product.


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: What type of peppermint oil [Re: Plasmid]
    #9265837 - 11/18/08 01:00 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Plasmid said:
Does that person on the other board provide a reference?




I've bumped the thread to see if they've turned it up yet. I'm not too skeptical that it exists, since they followed the procedure in the published report for their preparation of a solution using pure LSA, pure acetaldehyde, and citric acid to adjust the pH.

Quote:

Plasmid said:
The changes in effects may not be due to adduct formation at all of course.  There are a number of possible explanations and nobody has yet even demonstrated that any reaction takes place.




This is entirely possible. But considering the number of nucleophilic sites on the ergine alkaloids, it seems most likely to me. I didn't mean to rule out these other possibilities, it's just convenient to speak of them as adducts, since this is the most plausible explanation.

Quote:

As for the bulk of reports, which all come from biased sources




Not quite true. My experiment was prior to any of this hubbub about LSH and MGS+peppermint mixtures. I was at a total loss to explain the experience until these discussions emerged. It's hard to argue that my experience was biased.


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Re: What type of peppermint oil [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9266997 - 11/18/08 04:27 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

It's hard to argue that my experience was biased.

What I should have said is that the collection of reports is biased (because it only comes from those motivated enough to take the time to report anything).


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