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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure
    #9259796 - 11/17/08 11:59 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I submit that going beyond a certain threshold, the pain caused by getting drunk far, far surpasses any pleasure gained.

Why then do humans (over)indulge?


--------------------


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OfflineLion
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9259865 - 11/17/08 12:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It's not just alcohol.  Humans over-indulge in all sorts of things that could otherwise be pleasurable with minimal repercussions: food, tobacco, opiates - even self-reflection and constructive criticism, which imo is extremely healthy, can be overindulged in to the point of self-pity and/or self-loathing.

This is why Buddha taught that Nirvana is between extremes.

I don't know for sure what overindulgence stems from, but my best guess is it is rooted in fear ultimately: we feel we have to have everything we want now because we are aware of our mortality.  There are many fears, fear of inadequacy, fear of fully experiencing our emotions, and so forth, which we try to hide by overindulging in one sensory experience or another, but they all stem IMO from this base duality in mind, life and death.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineHahzist
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9259873 - 11/17/08 12:14 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I over-indulge once in a while because I forget how much I'm drinking. It's never my intention to get really drunk, but it happens.

Different reasons for different people though.

One of my housemates was an alcoholic and he just really liked the feeling of getting black out drunk.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9260057 - 11/17/08 12:53 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

People overindulge in alcohol because the high you get is frontloaded. First you feel good, then you feel bad. If it was the opposite people wouldn't overindulge.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9260109 - 11/17/08 01:01 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I submit that going beyond a certain threshold, the pain caused by getting drunk far, far surpasses any pleasure gained.

Why then do humans (over)indulge?




Sounds like you're expecting humans to be rational.

:nono:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9260185 - 11/17/08 01:19 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Why then do humans (over)indulge?




Laziness perhaps. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9260451 - 11/17/08 02:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I submit that going beyond a certain threshold, the pain caused by getting drunk far, far surpasses any pleasure gained.

Why then do humans (over)indulge?




Too many liquor stores, not enough ganga stores.

Too many (overly) brainwashed bots.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9260462 - 11/17/08 02:15 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

But yeah, alcohol is pretty fucking depressing.  I quit that crap long ago and have felt soooo much better both mentally and physically.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9260487 - 11/17/08 02:21 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I submit that going beyond a certain threshold, the pain caused by getting drunk far, far surpasses any pleasure gained.

Why then do humans (over)indulge?




Addictions. And by the way I disagree. Those who need to really cover up some pain don't mind an little nausea or headache. In fact it's just another helpful distraction.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9260552 - 11/17/08 02:31 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Those who need to really cover up some pain don't mind an little nausea or headache. In fact it's just another helpful distraction.




Can you explain how it's helpful (not temporarily btw)?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9260594 - 11/17/08 02:37 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It is temporary that's why they need to repeat the process.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9260621 - 11/17/08 02:42 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I swear whenever i drink a lot i get a comedown afterwards and often while i'm drunk purely because of how arrogant and stupid my train of thought was. It pisses me off.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9260781 - 11/17/08 03:05 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It is temporary that's why they need to repeat the process.




Yeah.

If I may ask, do you drink?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9260784 - 11/17/08 03:05 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

No.

I ingest.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9260792 - 11/17/08 03:07 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
But yeah, alcohol is pretty fucking depressing.  I quit that crap long ago and have felt soooo much better both mentally and physically.




Everything in moderation.  Nothing wrong with a few glasses of wine or a couple beers every now and then--helps make life rosy and produces content & well-being after a good supper.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #9260814 - 11/17/08 03:11 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
People overindulge in alcohol because the high you get is frontloaded. First you feel good, then you feel bad. If it was the opposite people wouldn't overindulge.




Indeed. More specifically, the first 1-2 drinks release dopamine. The rest don't, they just inhibit your nerve transmissions.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: zouden]
    #9260818 - 11/17/08 03:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, but after 2 drinks, one is rarely considering the cost/benefit ratio.  :wink:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Veritas]
    #9260822 - 11/17/08 03:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

At least 6 is necessary to activate a satisfactory functioning of beer goggles, however.

:chugbeer:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9260834 - 11/17/08 03:16 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

For me, 6 drinks would be more than enough to activate  :puke:


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9260850 - 11/17/08 03:18 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No.

I ingest.




Ingest alcohol?


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9260862 - 11/17/08 03:19 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

deranger said:
But yeah, alcohol is pretty fucking depressing.  I quit that crap long ago and have felt soooo much better both mentally and physically.




Everything in moderation.  Nothing wrong with a few glasses of wine or a couple beers every now and then--helps make life rosy and produces content & well-being after a good supper.




For you, sure.

But I used to drink a few beers or shots every now and again.  This was a while ago.

I have quite since then and have noticed improvement in mood and clarity of thinking.

To each their own.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9260869 - 11/17/08 03:20 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Oh, indeed.  Generally speaking a moderate level of alcohol is supposed to increase cardiovascular health, however.

People who drink in moderation show higher longevity than either those who abstain or drink more than is recommended.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9260879 - 11/17/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
No.

I ingest.




Ingest alcohol?




No, I ingest psychedelics. Alcohol is wayyyyyy too lame for the Icelander.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9260906 - 11/17/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Try the Emerald Goddess.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9260915 - 11/17/08 03:27 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Sure but do you think she'd go out with me?:doggystyle:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9260935 - 11/17/08 03:31 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

>No, I ingest psychedelics. Alcohol is wayyyyyy too lame for the Icelander.

You could always try injecting alcohol. Into your eyeballs. That'll show everyone you mean business.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9261105 - 11/17/08 04:09 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Oh, indeed.  Generally speaking a moderate level of alcohol is supposed to increase cardiovascular health, however




Sure, but whenever I used to drink moderately I felt a decline in clarity of mind and decrease in mood for days after.  I didn't feel that was healthy.  IMO there are other more naturally remedies that also increase cardiovascular health.  Biking up steep hills does that too.  Who needs alcohol, when you have more natural remedies and a good cardio workout?

But to each their own.  If you like to drink go for it, and sure it may keep you healthy.  But alcohol is not for me.

Quote:

People who drink in moderation show higher longevity than either those who abstain or drink more than is recommended.




Nootropics, herbal supplements, healthy diet, meditation, and good exercise also do that.  Enjoy your alcohol.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9261110 - 11/17/08 04:10 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

deranger said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
No.

I ingest.




Ingest alcohol?




No, I ingest psychedelics. Alcohol is wayyyyyy too lame for the Icelander.




cheers.

ever try nootropics?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9261124 - 11/17/08 04:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ever try noo-tropics?




I had a pina colada once...


--------------------


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9261389 - 11/17/08 04:59 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I ate a fruit cake once.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9261455 - 11/17/08 05:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
Nootropics, herbal supplements, healthy diet, meditation, and good exercise also do that.  Enjoy your alcohol.




:cheers:

I enjoy both Piracetam and booze.  No need to exclude one or the other.  :wink:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9261469 - 11/17/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

"Do what thou will is the whole of the law."


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9261481 - 11/17/08 05:16 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

The magician's ultimate enemy is the great Magician, the Magician who created the whole illusion of the Universe; and to meet him in battle, so that nothing is left either of him or of yourself, you must be exactly equal to him.

:levitate:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9261495 - 11/17/08 05:18 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Let's get ready to rumble.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure *DELETED* [Re: deranger]
    #9261507 - 11/17/08 05:19 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by Veritas

Reason for deletion: Save it for PM, please.



--------------------


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9261582 - 11/17/08 05:30 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

wine is like candy - or potato chips,
it is hard to have just one, once the palate acclimates to the burn and glowing flavor.

hard stuff is jagged shiney and fun tasting.

the taste  of these fluids is connected to relief, and that memory rules,
it even overrules when you know that it is getting sickitating - the taste still seems enticing.
the mind is unbalanced by that.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9262277 - 11/17/08 07:30 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

The mere word 'sickitating' makes the room spin around violently. Uh oh... *runs to toilet*


--------------------


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9263671 - 11/17/08 11:27 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

deranger said:
Nootropics, herbal supplements, healthy diet, meditation, and good exercise also do that.  Enjoy your alcohol.




:cheers:

I enjoy both Piracetam and booze.  No need to exclude one or the other.  :wink:




To each their own boat they may float, but I am skeptical of alcohol's ability to promote growth, and suspect it does no good in keeping the mind balanced.  Based on personal experimental research, of course.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9263689 - 11/17/08 11:29 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

deranger said:
I ate a fruit cake once.




Details of your sex life are not relevant. :nono:




You know, I posted a joke exactly like this to Icelander a couple days ago and it got deleted by Veritas.  It was intended as a joke, and that is all.  I did not intent it to be a personalism.

Now, it's funny how she didn't delete your post.

What's going on here?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9263824 - 11/17/08 11:48 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Now, it's funny how she didn't delete your post.

What's going on here?





Have you ever sent her Christmas cookies?


--------------------


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9263834 - 11/17/08 11:51 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Now, it's funny how she didn't delete your post.

What's going on here?





Have you ever sent her Christmas cookies?




No.

Do I have to send presents to not get my humorous posts deleted?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9263893 - 11/18/08 12:02 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Send me some and I will forward them to her. :wink:


--------------------


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OfflinePlasmid
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9264408 - 11/18/08 02:48 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

The pain experienced is not immediate, so people will take the short term pleasure over the long term pain.  I don't know why this is - I suppose because the short term pleasure is immediate and guaranteed and you can fool yourself into thinking you won't feel too bad tomorrow.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deranger]
    #9265009 - 11/18/08 09:10 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Gee, maybe I didn't SEE the post until this morning.  If you want to bring something to a moderator's attention, there is a "notify moderator button" at the bottom of each post.  Either utilize the system or ignore it, but don't clutter up threads with this off-topic complaining of moderator bias.  KTHX.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Veritas]
    #9265020 - 11/18/08 09:13 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

There is no 'Cookie Immunity' and I baked in vain? :confused:


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9265036 - 11/18/08 09:20 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I wasn't a mod last Christmas.  :grin:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Veritas]
    #9265060 - 11/18/08 09:29 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

You know that I am prescient. I have been long preparing for this day.


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Invisiblemushbaby
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9265489 - 11/18/08 11:39 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I submit that going beyond a certain threshold, the pain caused by getting drunk far, far surpasses any pleasure gained.

Why then do humans (over)indulge?




Usually I drink in moderation.  About 3 times a year I get "shit-faced" drunk.  Why you ask?  Because I am always worried about responsibilities, other people's feelings, and just about everything else.  When I get that drunk I no longer worry about everything or anything for that matter.  I am living in that exact moment and it feels as if life is about nothing but having fun.

Yes the next morning as I'm getting rid of a bilious stomach problem I question my intelligence and vow not to do it again.  Especially schnapps.  It seems to have a particular hatred for me.  But 3 or 4 months later I'll again feel the urge to not have a care in the world.

I find it strange that everyone else here is so moderate in their drinking.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: mushbaby]
    #9265529 - 11/18/08 11:48 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I find it strange that everyone else here is so moderate in their drinking.




Yeah, who would expect spriritually-minded people to care for their bodies?


--------------------


Edited by Veritas (11/18/08 12:13 PM)


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9265643 - 11/18/08 12:22 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Well I've read enough on this website to know that many people here over-indulge in many different substances.  I just found that unusual that no one else has said they drink in excess.

And being spiritual doesn't mean we never do anything detrimental to ourselves.


--------------------


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Veritas]
    #9265794 - 11/18/08 12:51 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Gee, maybe I didn't SEE the post until this morning.  If you want to bring something to a moderator's attention, there is a "notify moderator button" at the bottom of each post.  Either utilize the system or ignore it, but don't clutter up threads with this off-topic complaining of moderator bias.  KTHX.




seriously now, let's not take this forum so serious shall we?

can we not have a little bit of fun?

BTW.

orgone's last joke to me was not personal.  it was sheer play.  it was not a flame, nor a personalism.  it was a joke.  is playfulness not allowed in P&S? 

my teachers were so strict in high school, they made the kids so bored.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: mushbaby]
    #9266959 - 11/18/08 04:22 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushbaby said:
Because I am always worried about responsibilities, other people's feelings, and just about everything else.  When I get that drunk I no longer worry about everything or anything for that matter.  I am living in that exact moment and it feels as if life is about nothing but having fun.




Do you need alcohol to feel that freedom, or is it just an excuse to let yourself feel it?


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9266972 - 11/18/08 04:24 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

What I exercise my freedom by drinking alcohol?

:guinness:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9267186 - 11/18/08 04:52 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Is the alcoholic free when he drinks?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9267258 - 11/18/08 05:01 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

As it's always the alcoholic's choice whether or not to drink, I'd say yes.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9267287 - 11/18/08 05:04 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

right


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: mushbaby]
    #9267719 - 11/18/08 06:02 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushbaby said:
Well I've read enough on this website to know that many people here over-indulge in many different substances.  I just found that unusual that no one else has said they drink in excess.

And being spiritual doesn't mean we never do anything detrimental to ourselves.


I drink in excess quite often. :cheers:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9269717 - 11/18/08 10:48 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
As it's always the alcoholic's choice whether or not to drink, I'd say yes.




Yeah, I agree with that, though what the alcoholic is not free to decide is whether or not he feels the need to drink.  While the alcoholic can ultimately decide not to drink, the craving and sensations of need - the emptiness and anxiety he knows he will have without a drink - are all not up to him.  So, while each drink is up to him, all of the circumstances (including those resulting from his choices) have put him into a position where it is hard not to drink.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9271064 - 11/19/08 07:07 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Quote:

mushbaby said:
Because I am always worried about responsibilities, other people's feelings, and just about everything else.  When I get that drunk I no longer worry about everything or anything for that matter.  I am living in that exact moment and it feels as if life is about nothing but having fun.




Do you need alcohol to feel that freedom, or is it just an excuse to let yourself feel it?




Alcohol is more of an expressway, not the only way to get there.  I can get to that point by other means.  Unfortunately they are rare as well.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: mushbaby]
    #9271283 - 11/19/08 08:27 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Swap out the diminishing drink that drops your hum and then some.
Try a low dose of the Red Ones that like blowguns fire Brahman. :cheers:
Ho Ho HO.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9271331 - 11/19/08 08:41 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I submit that going beyond a certain threshold, the pain caused by getting drunk far, far surpasses any pleasure gained.

Why then do humans (over)indulge?




Is it Prometheus who gets his liver eaten everyday? Could it be that all alcoholics are living a metaphore? (once you start, the harder it is to no to display Promethean characteristics?)

wiki: "As an advocate for humanity he gains semi-divine status at Athens"


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


Edited by Booby (11/19/08 08:52 AM)


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Booby]
    #9271463 - 11/19/08 09:25 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Is it Prometheus who gets his liver eaten everyday?




You are correct sir. Prometheus is the Titan that stole fire from Zeus and gave it back to humanity.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Nexion]
    #9271474 - 11/19/08 09:29 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I view addiction as both a blessing and a curse. A blessing to have some way to dispell boredom.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9275426 - 11/19/08 10:18 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Those who need to really cover up some pain don't mind an little nausea or headache. In fact it's just another helpful distraction.




Exactly, when I was drinking a lot due to personal problems, the hangover the next day (I'd drink until I passed out, sleeping off what would've probably been a vomit fest otherwise, still waking up buzzed in the morning) would keep me absent-minded until I was drunk again. My brain was so fried from drinking that all I could do was focus on what I was physically doing, and I liked that. People say "smoke weed instead". Sure, weed has mood up-lifting effects, but it also makes me think more about life, and I didn't want to think about that much back then. So alcohol and pills felt like the way to go for me at the time. And honestly, I don't regret it. It kept me from doing a lot of dumb things.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: iamconfused]
    #9275503 - 11/19/08 10:28 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Your personal anecdote aside, some 50,000 DUI deaths per year is not good evidence that alcohol keeps people from doing dumb things.


--------------------


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9275564 - 11/19/08 10:34 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Your personal anecdote aside, some 50,000 DUI deaths per year is not good evidence that alcohol keeps people from doing dumb things.




I say we ban cars.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9275634 - 11/19/08 10:42 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I say we can bars.

(I am in awesome form as per usual.)


--------------------


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9275676 - 11/19/08 10:46 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

But what about happy hour?  :cryariver:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9276450 - 11/20/08 01:04 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

That's what clowns are for.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9276600 - 11/20/08 01:45 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Alcohol impairs judgment. Simple.


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: figmentfragment]
    #9277443 - 11/20/08 09:13 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

So does pot, simple.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: iamconfused]
    #9277449 - 11/20/08 09:14 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

So alcohol and pills felt like the way to go for me at the time. And honestly, I don't regret it. It kept me from doing a lot of dumb things.

Nothing wrong with that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9277456 - 11/20/08 09:16 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
So does pot, simple.




Cheese impairs judgment as well, simple.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: fireworks_god]
    #9277462 - 11/20/08 09:17 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Cheese? Which kind?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9277638 - 11/20/08 09:49 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

The Cheesus that died on the cross.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9277744 - 11/20/08 10:09 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I overindulge roughly twice per week because I have fun when doing so and I have realized I am immune to hangovers.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: fireworks_god]
    #9277778 - 11/20/08 10:14 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
So does pot, simple.




Cheese impairs judgment as well, simple.




Huh?


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Redstorm]
    #9277797 - 11/20/08 10:17 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9277819 - 11/20/08 10:19 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

:rofl2:


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: deCypher]
    #9277887 - 11/20/08 10:29 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Icelander]
    #9278120 - 11/20/08 11:28 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
So does pot, simple.




However this thread is not only, not about why people over indulge in "pot", but also pot doesn't have the same pleasure to pain question posed by the OP.

:shrug:


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Goodbye Shroomery.


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: fireworks_god]
    #9278176 - 11/20/08 11:39 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
So does pot, simple.




Cheese impairs judgment as well, simple.




ditto. Not the OP subject.

However I would like to see a source that proves that cheese "impairs" judgment.
And if you are able, examples of how the results of over indulging with cheese are parallel to that of over indulging with alcohol.


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.


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OfflineGrok
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: mushbaby]
    #9288176 - 11/21/08 08:41 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushbaby said:
Usually I drink in moderation.  About 3 times a year I get "shit-faced" drunk.  Why you ask?  Because I am always worried about responsibilities, other people's feelings, and just about everything else.  When I get that drunk I no longer worry about everything or anything for that matter.  I am living in that exact moment and it feels as if life is about nothing but having fun.

Yes the next morning as I'm getting rid of a bilious stomach problem I question my intelligence and vow not to do it again.  Especially schnapps.  It seems to have a particular hatred for me.  But 3 or 4 months later I'll again feel the urge to not have a care in the world.

I find it strange that everyone else here is so moderate in their drinking.




I think this is true for a lot of people. This also captures the destructive and ugly side of alcohol...people are usually at their lowest at such points of intoxication. They really don't care about anything, and often end up cheating, getting a DUI, making a total ass of themselves in one way or another, or some combination of these. It is these reasons that I hate alcohol. I hate what it represents and what it does to people, because I've foolishly been emotionally involved with people who're susceptible to it in these ways. Nothing positive results from excessive consumption of it.

I do from time to time crack a beer or drink with friends, usually after enough time has passed that I forget what a shitty drug it is. Mostly it makes me want cocaine, which I usually don't think about.

I think people like to drink for a lot of reasons. Some people get really happy when they drink. Some for relaxation...I find alcohol relaxing about 1 in 5 times I drink. Some have been brought up by culture that spotlights alcohol as a big thrill and a justification to act stupid, basically. Some to numb away demons (never worked for me).


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Grok]
    #9291354 - 11/22/08 12:36 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I see what you are saying Grok.

Since I'm the type when I get drunk to just want to get up and dance with my buddies (and that's pretty much all) I've been pretty lucky to not have too serious of repercussions.  Of course there was one episode of skinny-dipping that was due completely to alcohol.

But I've seen where too much alcohol too often can cause real problems.  I left my ex because he would get that way not a couple times a year but a couple of times a week.  And he wasn't a happy drunk.

But I have never thought that "I was drunk" was a proper excuse for bad behaviour.


--------------------


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: mushbaby]
    #9291431 - 11/22/08 12:48 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Of course there was one episode of skinny-dipping that was due completely to alcohol.





May I fix you a marguerita, my dear?


--------------------


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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: mushbaby]
    #9291959 - 11/22/08 02:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushbaby said:
But I have never thought that "I was drunk" was a proper excuse for bad behaviour.



What is a proper excuse?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: Trepiodos]
    #9310354 - 11/25/08 11:57 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

OC I like the glass salted.  And can I change it to a Mai Tai?

Trep, there is rarely an  excuse for bad behaviour. Reasons and explanations yes, excuses no.


--------------------


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Re: Alcohol: pain vs. pleasure [Re: mushbaby]
    #9311956 - 11/25/08 04:30 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Good answer.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'


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