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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: deCypher]
    #9225354 - 11/11/08 04:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yea, I have a reason.  But I dont have time (or want) to research the alternative definitions for words in philosophical statements and come up with some foolproof wording to express the reason.  So, using my preexisting definition of communicate, its not consistent with what it is in fact doing (communicating about something, something being the philosophical statement).

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9225368 - 11/11/08 04:25 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:.  The most irrefutable argument is that which is not spoken.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: deCypher]
    #9225444 - 11/11/08 04:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

:shrug: What can I say... Im not very smart and you know that anything I post would just promptly picked apart.  I like debate, and dont agree with the original post so I posted my ideas on it.  But I find your statement and the prospect of debating it wholly uninteresting.

Im a simpleton, go easy on me.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9225448 - 11/11/08 04:36 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said: But I find your statement and the prospect of debating it wholly uninteresting.




Ouch.  :cryariver:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9225488 - 11/11/08 04:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Im not very smart

Hey that's my line. Not nice.:mad2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: Icelander]
    #9225522 - 11/11/08 04:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Sorry, but youll have to share it with the ~3bill. people it applies too.  :tongue:

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Invisibledeimya
tofu and monocle
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9225696 - 11/11/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Don't panic on go easy on lucy. Take the time to prepare a nice meal. Take the time to enjoy it. Hug a friend, give some love, smile to a stranger, express yourself in creative ways. Sense is found when you relate mindfully with your environment. Remove yourself from the equation, ask why's for why's for why's, and it all falls apart doesn't it ?

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OfflineNonstop_Shroomin
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Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 124
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: deCypher]
    #9225723 - 11/11/08 05:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

this is why all other animals do not know of their existence. all other animals except humans just use instincts. humans are the flaw of the universe and there is no such thing as logic. it is a man-made word/concept. everything is nothing. and i am okay with that i would rather wonder than be apathetic about everything. the meaning of life....here it comes.... IS WHATEVER YOU MAKE OF IT. enjoy it and dont fall into more bullshit than you can handle. life, to me, is meant to be enjoyed to the fullest.


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:mushroom2:This just is and that's okay.:mushroom2:

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OfflineSatChitAnanda
Stranger

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 26
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: deCypher]
    #9225995 - 11/11/08 06:03 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I came across a Zen monk who said Science will prove itself wrong in a couple hundred years, who knows, but certainly worth a good laugh. I guess it depends on how one interprets science.

I too struggled with these questions. There was a time where I rested comfortably in what I thought to be an accurate and reliable view on life. It was a very beautiful and rational point of view that was easy to hold my ground on. Then came the entheogens and Kali to crash the party. Clearly this shook the ground beneath my feet and and became increasingly less solid. Stepping outside the box is a very heroic move...

These bouts of confusion are very necessary, at least from my experience and perspective. The Dark Nights, as they have been called. To crush old thought patterns, habits, pride, the ego etc.

What I would suggest, and only a suggestion, is to lay off the Exalted states for a while. Reorient yourself with your new found knowledge... or lack of knowledge... so you can be able to clearly and effectively express these deeper truths to the world. Otherwise no one will take you seriously and this can lead to a very misanthropic and reclusive lifestyle.

Chasing only the sensual sweetness that the highs, fireworks and exalted states offer eventually leaves a bitter aftertaste. It is important to know that the exalted states are just little rehearsals or previews, opening the curtain and closing it again. This has its usefulness, but should not be abused. Once you have seen the top of the mountain, the trick is to realize where you actually are on that mountain, and not confuse yourself with actually being at the top simply because you have seen it. There is work to be done, there must be a practice.. this is the real challenge.

Perhaps take a look at Ken Wilbers work. It has helped me significantly out of my neurotic, pessimistic, anti-social state of being. He manages to bring it all together by simply stating that there is partial truth in everything. To not completely deny or buy into anything and that the universe is composed of perspectives. The work is about reowning yours.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9226482 - 11/11/08 07:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Now I'm discovering that not only are all of those classical theories wrong, but there are hundreds of competing theories, all with flaws, all with reliable explanations for certain events.




Welcome to Postmodernity. Drinks are $5.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
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Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #9226598 - 11/11/08 07:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Two drink minimum per set?


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
Comrade
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Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 8,993
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
. [Re: deCypher]
    #9227781 - 11/11/08 10:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

.


--------------------
.

Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:28 PM)

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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9228451 - 11/12/08 01:33 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
The worst thing is, some of the most important answers to questions of origin and meaning are inherently unanswerable.




Your mistake is thinking that questions of origin and meaning are important, IMO.  The universe will work the way it is supposed to work whether you understand it or not.  Why question it?

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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9228590 - 11/12/08 02:58 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

maybe start reading something a bit more meaningful than theoretical physics. 


Here's a good one, endocrine disrupting contaminants. :wink:


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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OfflineBooby
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Registered: 09/14/05
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Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: Cracka_X]
    #9228658 - 11/12/08 03:58 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Here's a good one, endocrine disrupting contaminants.

Maybe because it's all simple chemistry is why pot can be so highly regulated. I once drank gallons of water only to make a mess in the ER. The disturbance I attributed to a strict regimen of high daily consumption of water.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
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Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: Booby]
    #9228761 - 11/12/08 05:33 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

well, if you wanna get to the nitty gritty root of EVERYTHING, physics is it.


and pot or drinking a ton of water isn't exactly what I was talking about....

http://e.hormone.tulane.edu/learning/wildlife-effects.html


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Offlinezouden
Neuroscientist
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Registered: 11/12/07
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Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9228794 - 11/12/08 06:02 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Diecommie, the universe has certainly not been shown to follow logical rules 100% of the time.
...
And to make matters worse, we realize that dark energy isn't enough. Dark matter is needed as well to explain how galaxies are shaped the way they are.





But that doesn't mean the universe isn't 100% logical! It just means we haven't figured out what's going on. Once we figure it out, it'll be as logical as the thermoelectric effect, or any other phenomena which seemed illogical at first. Fret not, science is still as awesome as ever :wink:


Quote:

Diaboleros said:
For example, according to science, light waves move on nothing, vacuum, which is just impossible. Waves need a medium to move on.



WHAT


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflinePlasmid
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Registered: 06/01/08
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Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9238696 - 11/13/08 04:58 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
We pretty much know nothing. That much I have gathered from all of my research on and offline.




The only knowledge science can tell you, is which hypotheses have been demonstrated wrong.  Our best theories and models probably are wrong.  Some of them could be right, but we'll never be able to know.  The only real knowledge you can get from science is which statements about the universe are wrong.  Hypotheses and theories are not knowledge: they are statements which, to the best of our abilities, are known to be consistent with the universe.

Quote:

Every time we think we know something based on the scientific method, fundamentals that should make that something up are obscured.




Can you give an example?  You're being really vague.  I'm not sure what "fundamentals" you're talking about.  Are you sure that you're reading science articles, because usually they're pretty well written and have excellent introductions to the subject at hand.

Quote:

Why do they operate in totally different ways macroscopically and microscopically?




Who cares?  What does this have to do with how we know nothing?  You're trying to say that we know nothing while discussing the different interactions of energy and matter at macroscopic and microscopic levels.  So do we know something or not?  Just because you can't wrap your own head around it doesn't mean that it's just been made up on the spot by a monkey with a type-writer.

Quote:

What is time, and why does it pass? What is this universe, why should it exist, why not merely nothingness and nonexistance?




So what's the point of all this?  We can't answer some questions, ergo we know nothing?

Quote:

This universe seems absurd to me.




Your rambling here is absurd.

Quote:

Truth is meaningless because it seems that there is absolutely nothing that is 100% true on all scales at all times.




I don't think that there is no such thing as absolute truth.  I just think that science can't produce models of physical reality that can ever be proven 100% true.  There is no demonstrable truth in science.  Scientific theories can never be verified.  That's a limitation of how humans can go about learning.  It's not necessarily a reflection on the inherent properties of the universe.

Quote:

What is true for my situation may be false for somebody else's situation or from someone elses perspective.




No.  That's completely wrong.  Completely absolutely wrong.  Something is either true or false, not both.

Quote:

I thought on the terms of all of the classical theories behind the universe.




And let me guess, you thought that dropping acid would kill your ego and clarify the universe?  Gee how many people have believed that for no good reason whatsoever and then gone on the angrily insist that LSD and other psychedelics are wonderful learning tools?  But I digress. . .

Quote:

Is this a fruitless, absurd search for meaning? Is there ANY logic to this universe?




I really don't know.  I am happy to go on with the assumption that the universe is a logical and ordered place.  I'm not ready to accept miracles.

Quote:

What do you guys believe makes this universe what it is?




The universe, duh.

Quote:

Do I have to resort to some idea of God?




You are allowed to say that you don't know what to believe.

Quote:


I wish the universe followed logical rules.




I don't think you have a good reason for thinking that it doesn't.  Just because we haven't figured them out (if they exist) doesn't mean that there are no rules.

Quote:


We really don't know jack, it seems. We build up these awesome equations and statements of science on, quite literally, nothing




Equations and theories are not built on nothing. 

Why is it so easy for you to be in such a state of doubt that you can make these supreme proclamations that are along the lines of, "SCIENCE IS DEAD."  Absolute bullshit.  Criticize science all you want, but it's the best way we have of building working models of the world.  If science is nothing, then we may as well give up on hopes of improving the world rationally.  You take your statements too far.  Is it for dramatic effect?

Science is built ENTIRELY on experience.  That's it.  Science is about what you, me and everyone can experience.  If you want to call that "nothing" then I don't know what else there is that we should care about as a society.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: Plasmid]
    #9238716 - 11/13/08 05:01 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Good post.


Supernovasky, have you read anything by Karl Popper? If not, I suggest you do. Most of the confusion you seem to have about science has been addressed by Karl Popper in one way or another.

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Invisibletwo_rivers
mmm..
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Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1,014
Re: Science is so disconcerting... Why does nothing make sense? [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9251781 - 11/15/08 08:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

a logical universe... ick.. how boring.

wishing that the universe would be logical is like wishing Beethoven would have played chopsticks rather than his ninth symphony.


--------------------
:kodama:

Save Shroomerites Anonymous!

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