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Offlineehud
Rocket Scientist
Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 217
Loc: Middle America
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil"
    #920055 - 09/30/02 07:44 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

This may be a closed topic now, but I am much too lazy to search for a thread talking about this when it is on my mind right now.

When I trip, I come accross the concept of "knowledge of good and evil" and how it relates to what I have just ate. In the Bible it explains how man's fall from paradise was brought on by his disobedience. He ate from the tree of knowledge and then knew both good and evil. Where he became ashamed.... and it all went down hill from there. When I eat mushrooms I somtimes think that I have taken from this tree and it has increased my understanding. I don't feel ashamed or even that I have done somthing wrong, instead I feel as if I am realizing man's sin, and it is too late to change anything because I have already sinned.

It is almost like the only way for me to even know that I have ever done anything wrong is to do it wrong at least once so that then I know what I shouldn't do again. Does this mean partaking mushrooms is wrong?

Is there any intelligence in this? Well maybe somebody could add or subtract somthing a little more understandable.








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OfflineBlueJay
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Registered: 12/18/01
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Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: ehud]
    #920062 - 09/30/02 07:48 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

I believe this is the 20 foot cannibis "tree"....God said one plant only is forbidden...I have promised to stay away from pot....In revalations though HE said HE will give leaves that willll heal the nations......Maybe pot....


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Respect all, Fear None!
The Peacemaker

Cacti are my new life.....


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InvisiblethePatient
Criminal Bodhisattva
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Registered: 07/07/02
Posts: 3,289
Loc: Indiana
Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: ehud]
    #920095 - 09/30/02 08:03 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

good and evil is all perception.


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T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
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Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: ehud]
    #920130 - 09/30/02 08:12 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

I think that the Garden of Eden story is a metaphor related to sex, or reproduction...

Maybe we were hybrid animals: part monkey, part ______ (fill in blank) :grin:  And like all hybrids, we could not reproduce... and our "creators" didn't want us to be able to reproduce, but we somehow transcended this limitation by "eating of the fruit", which pissed our creators off... but they didn't want to destroy us, so they left us on Earth to wander blindly, to evolve without interference.

And so we have evolved from our animal nature, and we have become aware of the "god-like" potential within ourselves. We have been given a gift disguised as a curse.

Eating mushrooms is not wrong, as it has the potential to bring us into awareness of this divinity, of the spark of God within. 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
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Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: Adamist]
    #920222 - 09/30/02 08:45 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

i believe this "original sin" is actually an original blessing, because it gave us free will... without the "evil" we would not be able to experience "good", or if we could, the good would not be so sweet...
and when the time comes, and we evolve to the 4th, and then 5th dimension there won't be any evil on this planet anymore, but the knowledge of evil will reside in our heads... we will know that somewhere (be it far away on other planets, or be it in the past of our on civilization) there still is the duality, and that knowledge will then be what makes the good so sweet... we will see the illusion and learn to use it, instead of beeing a slave to it


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: ehud]
    #920257 - 09/30/02 08:57 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Have you ever seen a photo of that ancient fresco of Adam, Eve and the Serpent which is coiled around the Tree of which you speak - in the form of a tall Amanita Muscaria?



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Anonymous

Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: ehud]
    #920619 - 09/30/02 10:44 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Well maybe somebody could add or subtract somthing a little more understandable.


I'm not very good at math.


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OfflineAxiom420
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Registered: 03/22/01
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Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: In(di)go]
    #921277 - 09/30/02 10:35 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

"...everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin....the Son shall make your free..." (John 8:34-36)

Slavery to sin...how lame.

"...from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die." (Genesis 2:17)

Just as our sinful nature is inherited so is the knowledge of good and evil. Mushrooms don't provide this. They merely remind us. You didn't die did you? Or they break down the barriers we've built arround the inconsistancies in our own life, show us the good and evil we've mannaged to hide from ourself. You're eating an illegal substance. Is this evil?

"All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify. If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?" (I Corinthians 10:23, 30)

Are you giving thanks? Is it profitable? Is it edifyiing?
These are good questions. Its ok to be this way.

Don't let people that get brainwashed by the TV tell you how to understand reality.


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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
- Albert Einstein


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OfflineGlacius
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Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: thePatient]
    #921298 - 09/30/02 10:57 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Hmm, perception to an extent. It all really comes down to common sense, and not good and evil. Now how can anyone really say a murderer is evil, yet taking the life of an animal ok. I am discusted with someone who would kill a human being. Would it be wrong to not think the same of someone who would kill an animal. Sure its food, but it's still killing. We cant really say what is good and evil, because no one fully understands it. Sure the cristians, and other(whats the word for it??) religions think they can bark orders of right and wrong around, but in the end, no one is perfect. Every single one has sinned. Even the saints. But there are certain things that, without a doubt, are wrong. Usually they have to do will hurting others, and no one wants to be hurt. What a difficult subject...!!!


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addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling


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OfflinekREATION1
kяедτιסи1

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 157
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #922052 - 10/01/02 10:54 AM (19 years, 16 hours ago)



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"an immigrant from heaven on earth with a work visa"


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OfflineBlueJay
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Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: Axiom420]
    #922281 - 10/01/02 12:24 PM (19 years, 15 hours ago)

Just folllow the ten commandments and you 'll be OK...do as you please otherwise....


--------------------
Respect all, Fear None!
The Peacemaker

Cacti are my new life.....


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: Glacius]
    #923536 - 10/01/02 07:52 PM (19 years, 7 hours ago)

In reply to:

how can anyone really say a murderer is evil, yet taking the life of an animal ok.



Easy... a murderer is evil, taking the life of an animal is ok.

I hold human life in higher regard than that of any other animal species, I am a human being, humans are my species, my mother is a human, my father is a human, all my siblings are humans, my wife is a human, my children are humans, every person that I have ever loved is a human. Humans are social animals, humans are physically weak animals, we would never have survived as a species if we didn't learn to cooperate and live with one another in groups. Part of being a social animal includes complying with certain behavior patterns in your group which will assure the survival of individuals and hence the species as a whole. If social animals want to thrive, it is logical that they refrain from taking the lives of their own kind who serve to help keep each other alive. Without an objective or common morality, civilized behavoir will disappear and the benefits of social organization will vanish. If we are to accept the concept of moral relativism, society will descend into anarchy and civilization will perish.

Humans are omnivores, that means we eat both vegetation and other animals, it is perfectly normal to kill another animal before eating it. This is a normal part of living, besides, meat tastes good. Pure vegetarians suffer from deficiencies that meat eaters don't, it's all part of a well balanced diet.

We need living humans to help us survive, we need to eat dead animals for a well balanced diet to help us live a healthier life. It seems perfectly natural to me.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: Evolving]
    #923597 - 10/01/02 08:13 PM (19 years, 7 hours ago)

Easy... a murderer is evil, taking the life of an animal is ok.

What if I had to kill and eat my friend to survive, because we were trapped in an avalanche for weeks? Would you consider me evil?


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: Adamist]
    #923623 - 10/01/02 08:26 PM (19 years, 7 hours ago)

In reply to:

What if I had to kill and eat my friend to survive, because we were trapped in an avalanche for weeks? Would you consider me evil?



If you 'had to kill' your friend, that would mean that it was an act of self defense (meaning he/she was attacking you). Even starving people are capable of making choices. Morality (good & evil, right & wrong) is about the choices we make, usually in regards to our fellow humans.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: Evolving]
    #928739 - 10/03/02 04:19 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

do you have to kill animals?


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: raytrace]
    #928775 - 10/03/02 04:34 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

No, I can starve to death or live on a diet which won't provide optimal nutrition. I value my life and that of my own species above that of other animals, so I will kill other animals (or have someone else kill them) and eat them. That's the way it works in the animal kingdom.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: Evolving]
    #928801 - 10/03/02 04:44 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

i don't think lacto-vegetarians suffer from malnutrition. you can have a balanced diet without eating meat. am I wrong?


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OfflineBlueJay
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Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: raytrace]
    #928982 - 10/03/02 05:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The bible says the father had the fatted calf killed to celebrate the return of the lost son that blew his living inheritance on whores and partying but returned home after a hard lesson....How can anyone say no meat is good???Bible says it is more than once...


--------------------
Respect all, Fear None!
The Peacemaker

Cacti are my new life.....


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: BlueJay]
    #929051 - 10/03/02 06:29 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

oh, silly me


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
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Re: Fruit of "knowledge of good and evil" [Re: raytrace]
    #929161 - 10/03/02 07:15 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

we evolved canine teeth for a reason....


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


Edited by CleverName (10/03/02 07:16 PM)


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