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Offlinecomario2
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100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus")
    #919771 - 09/30/02 05:35 PM (19 years, 14 hours ago)



hi there, thanks to all for the interest. i have edited this post with some additional notes, to respond to various questions received.
1. analysis show no mescaline, but an extreme variety of other alkaloids. As noted, the Huichol Indian shamans consider it a magical plant, more potent than peyote. However, there are no really reliable bioessays reported that i could find in the literature (except only for a few, second hand reports i found scattered in message boards here and there, nothing too scientific. experts, like Trout and Murple, believe the shamans traditions, as well as the results of alkaloid analysis, warrant the need for more studies.

2. this is an endangered and protected species. I purchased it from a reputable supplier, but I am not 100% sure of whether the sale is legal.

3. the age is guessed from size. this is one of the slowest growing organisms, period, much slower than lophophora. the size of the one in the pic is approx 7''. I have many other sizes and varieties of ariocarpus, a truly fascinating being. I have some 1'' diam size ones,which I call "babies", but are 10-15 yrs old.

4. as for as ingestion, i guess any method that works for pedro or peyote would work for this species. i certainly would never attempt to do so: the magic here is simply of getting to chat with this old dude, who sometimes gives me precious advice!



--------------------
comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"


Edited by comario2 (10/01/02 07:10 AM)


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: comario2]
    #919970 - 09/30/02 07:06 PM (19 years, 13 hours ago)

What the hell is that? :smile:

Never seen one of those before!


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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: comario2]
    #920322 - 09/30/02 09:19 PM (19 years, 10 hours ago)

That's fantastic! How big is it? How do you know it's 100 years old? Got any more?


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: angryshroom]
    #920422 - 09/30/02 09:46 PM (19 years, 10 hours ago)

im with you on this one.......what the hell is it man?


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: wrestler_az]
    #920564 - 09/30/02 10:28 PM (19 years, 9 hours ago)

It's a mescaline containing cacti.
A very cool plant. I want one of those.


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: superpimp]
    #920568 - 09/30/02 10:29 PM (19 years, 9 hours ago)

sweet....never seen that one


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: comario2]
    #920945 - 09/30/02 07:40 PM (19 years, 12 hours ago)

caramba!
very beautiful specimen! congratulations cabr?n!
er... isn't tsunami a huge wave? i thought the plant's name was sunami...


Edited by felixhigh (09/30/02 07:44 PM)


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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: felixhigh]
    #921234 - 09/30/02 09:49 PM (19 years, 10 hours ago)

Sunami (Ariocarpus fissuratus) Sometimes known as living rock, or dry whiskey. Considered by some to be more potent than peyote.


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: superpimp]
    #921382 - 10/01/02 12:05 AM (19 years, 8 hours ago)

Beautiful specimen...thanx for sharing.
BTW whats the legal status for those babies?

peace...


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InvisibleYoung_but_cool
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: comario2]
    #921426 - 10/01/02 01:25 AM (19 years, 6 hours ago)

Where did you get it? Owning a 100+ tsunami is a bit shady from an ethical/ ecological perspective. Have to say its a cool plant though.


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InvisiblePynchon
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: superpimp]
    #921575 - 10/01/02 04:47 AM (19 years, 3 hours ago)

In reply to:

It's a mescaline containing cacti.




I don't think mescaline has ever been found in Ariocarpus fissuratus.

And yeah, pretty sketchy ecologically...nice plant anyway.


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Offlinemile69
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #921576 - 10/01/02 04:47 AM (19 years, 3 hours ago)

i know those are legal on the united states, and can actually be purchased though a few online vendors. if you want to pm me, i can send you a link. the only thing i want to know is...is how to prepare this thing. thay claim it can be dried.......but theres an "elixer" you can makle out of it also.


Edited by mile69 (10/01/02 05:04 AM)


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Offlinemile69
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: Pynchon]
    #921588 - 10/01/02 05:03 AM (19 years, 3 hours ago)

oh and heres some info that agrees with the no mescaline statement:) i got it from a web site.....this is not my info:)

Though it contains no mescaline it is considered by the Tarahumara to be more powerful than L. williamsii and is used by them as a narcotic and magical plant. It is often made into a drink which it is said causes robbers to be powerless to steal anything. Also used to remedy fevers and ease rheumatic pains. It is often called "sunami," "hikuli sunami," "chautle," "peyote cimarron" (wild peyote), or "living rock," and is considered a "false peyote."

hope that helps guys :smile: 


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OfflineT0aD
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: comario2]
    #921615 - 10/01/02 05:25 AM (19 years, 2 hours ago)

this is an old motherfucker :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: is it active /


--------------------
Cuba Libre


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Offlineneuro
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: mile69]
    #921719 - 10/01/02 06:56 AM (19 years, 1 hour ago)

No mescaline is correct, but it contains compounds similar to mescaline causing very simila, but to some, more intense effects. "the Indians regard them as 'an evil,' dangerous because they are somewhat stronger than peyote and 'will drive people mad' when ingested. They are not recommended" (Stafford, 3rd edition 1992).


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: neuro]
    #921785 - 10/01/02 01:18 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

from what i gather, the active alkaloids produce "tropane" like effects, rather than the entheogenic ones produced by mescaline. however, i'm going to pass on this one. a part from the fact that they're an endangered species (no different than peyote), they look so scary that i confess i would not dare partake. however, i'm always interested in reports should anybody give it a shot ....


--------------------
comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"


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Offlinepsylo33o
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: comario2]
    #922117 - 10/01/02 11:17 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

This specimen is more than fascinating... Imagine, 100 year old organism, just.. fascinating... just inspires respect... whoaa...... now this is some kind of superior entity...


--------------------
I am the holy spirit
I am whole in spirit


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OfflineT0aD
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: neuro]
    #922347 - 10/01/02 12:49 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I want to try this


--------------------
Cuba Libre


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OfflineSalviaEngland
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: comario2]
    #922369 - 10/01/02 12:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Very interesting plant indeed and some good information, thanks comario2.
.


--------------------

Cactus


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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: neuro]
    #922569 - 10/01/02 02:11 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

No mescaline is correct, but it contains compounds similar to mescaline causing very simila, but to some, more intense effects. "the Indians regard them as 'an evil,' dangerous because they are somewhat stronger than peyote and 'will drive people mad' when ingested. They are not recommended" (Stafford, 3rd edition 1992).





I misspoke earlier, there is no mescaline in sunami, but it does contain horedine, N-methyltyramine, and N-methyl-3,4-dimethoxy-B-phenethylamine. It is sometimes used in place of peyote.
The dangerous, evil cacti you are talking about is tsuwiri. That is also known as false peyote.


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: superpimp]
    #924646 - 10/02/02 12:30 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

hey superpimp, i believe your alkaloids breakdown is quite correct now. you are also correct in pointing out tsuviri ("false peyote"), which is another variety of ariocarpus, "ariocarpus retusus". however, i believe that alleged alkaloid differences between ariocarpus fissuratus and ariocarpus retusus are based on ethnobotanical traditions, and are not supprted by chemical analysis. i have the most updated chemical analysis for these cacti somewhere, and i will post them asap. in the meantime, i continue to be very interested in all comments, reports,info in general on the ariocarpus cacti


--------------------
comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"


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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: comario2]
    #924802 - 10/02/02 01:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

My info is coming from "Peyote and Other Psychoactive Cacti" by Adam Gottlieb. It was origonally published in 1977 and republished in 1997, so the info may be a little out of date.


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: superpimp]
    #925017 - 10/02/02 03:14 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

hey, isn't adam gottlieb the dude who wrote (published and is still selling like crazy) "how to produce 5000 doses of psylocibin per week in small room"? i love him, but i wouldn't consider him 100% reliable! "trout's notes" and trout's many publications on the subject, are much more reliable and updated. check him out!


--------------------
comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"


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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: comario2]
    #14970285 - 08/24/11 12:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have one of these that I know is 40+ yrs old, I inherited from my grandmother. It is 4 1/2" wide and about 2 1/2" in height. Today is the first time I've been able to identify exactly what it was. I've only seen in bloom one time and that was about 9yrs ago. I keep it as an indoor plant mostly. Not sure what kind of soil to use or potting requirements for it, but I do treasure it. Looking forward learning more about it....thanks for sharing!


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Offlinedurian_2008
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: stacym]
    #14971081 - 08/24/11 03:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Are these considered impossible to graft?


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InvisiblePoC
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: durian_2008]
    #14971817 - 08/24/11 06:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

They are not impossible to graft at all durian.  If it's gonna be grafted most people start by grafting the seedlings which are easy to graft and relatively quick.  Trying to graft a big adult like that would be kinda a travesty though - might as well save it for its seeds and just graft those.

OP - good looking Ariocarpus.  Sale of Ariocarpus is legal but poaching is afaik illegal.  People do raise them for sale from seed and in Phoenix I have seen Ariocarpus in 4" pots for sale around $40, 6-7" size around $60-80, and multi-headed ones can go for a lot.  Here's a picture of the one I've been taking care of for a few years now that was originally in someone's yard and was rescued before they redid the landscaping.  Not as big as yours but it's one of my favorite plants.



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Offlinedurian_2008
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: PoC]
    #14972159 - 08/24/11 07:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PoC said:
Trying to graft a big adult like that would be kinda a travesty though - might as well save it for its seeds and just graft those.





With a 100+ year old specimen, I wouldn't dare.

With the seedlings, I would.

Will have to look some up in the Marketplace.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: 100+yrs old tsunami ("ariocarpus fissuratus") [Re: durian_2008]
    #14972772 - 08/24/11 09:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

the huichol really don't use these other cacti unless they are a particularly knowledgable kaiwitero or marakame (words for wise men or healers). Most of them stick to peyote for good reason. There are also species of ariocarpus or others that are said to be the cactus that the bad sorcerers eat to know darkness.  :werewolf:

What the OP has is a really special cactus I would never ever bioassay or graft something that old and rare. Keep that old guy looking spiffy!


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