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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #920743 -

"Before a child learns English, does he not think at all?"

Why is it that children are a lot more creative and open minded than adults. it might have something to do with lack of mind confining symbol associations.



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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: StS]
    #920780 -

In reply to:
The very act of trying to define means to apply a term to, for the point of memorizing and communicating that idea to others.



but you're not communicating the idea!
you're only communicating your perception of the idea which cannot fit into words
why do you not understand this?
telling someone "my thoughts are in pictures" or any other way of thinking, has nothing to do with your subjective understanding of what that picture means


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #921587 -

I knew I shouldn't have gotten involved in this conversation  :tongue:
But I do understand your point perfectly AJ, you just are missing my point entirely.  And in the end, we are both trying to communicate an idea to each other in words, which you say an idea can not fit into, so this whole conversation becomes pointless.
:wink:


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"You took too much, man....too much, too much!"

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: StS]
    #921670 -



I'm talking about the ideas that can't fit into words.
some can. such as what I've been expressing to you in this thread.

stop acting dumb.


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #921720 -

Jeez, why do you insist on childish name calling? To me resorting to "mud-slinging" is one of the biggest signs of unintelligence.


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"You took too much, man....too much, too much!"

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #921733 -

And also, you seem to be contradicting yourself by saying that SOME ideas CAN fit into words because wouldn't you really just be...
In reply to:
only communicating your perception of the idea

and not the idea itself?


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"You took too much, man....too much, too much!"

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: StS]
    #921803 -

Language is a barrier. If you can't get your point or meaning across, it's definitely a barrier.
If we live in the same place, we can still experience a breakdown in communication simply because we may have learned different language skills. A person is also judged a great deal by how they use-or misuse-their language skills(a person who has poor grammar or spelling is often labeled as ignorant or immature, while the other end of the spectrum are often considered credible based solely on the words they use. According to that logic, we may as well vote the Spellchecker as our next president).

Your ability to get your idea across to another person is limited or enhanced by your understanding of language or words..but your language doesn't care if people understand you or not. Language does not teach you language...another human being teaches you their version, and you build your own from there..but the foundation was not yours.

According to written history, language was designed to be a barrier.
Ask the people who were building the Tower of Babel.

Your own words can also be your demise;
Matthew 15:11
Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."

It's been my experience that everyone has a lot to say, and no one is really taking the time to hear them.

I have noticed on many occasions that a person was misunderstood and labeled many not-so-nice things, simply because the language got in the way or didn't didn't come across clearly. Misquotes, out-of-context quotes, or complete ommision of information when replying are so common that the have become acceptable.

In conversations, people frequently talk over one another or have rambling discussions that resemble rallies for people with attention deficit syndrome, in their effort to be heard above the rest of the 'white noise'..or just to make themselves seem interesting.

Berhane Sellasie once said(not a direct quote) that by taking what he says and changing it to what you think he says you do him an injustice; to understand you must take it as it is, for what it is, and nothing more.

..And let's not forget the old saying: A picture is worth a thousand words.

my alter-ego used to say "let's all create a new language: we'll start with words we already know"

..I suggest we learn to love ourselves before it's made illegal"...
Hoobastank

..of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong....

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #921961 -

this thread is a great example of what happens when we use imprecise language over an entropic communications channel. We get gibberish. (Mark: i can do without the etymology of gibberish)


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: MarkZero]
    #921962 -

In reply to:
Language is a barrier. If you can't get your point or meaning across, it's definitely a barrier.


How is that? That makes no sense. If language cannot serve to get your point acrosss, it is not because it's a barrier, it is because it is inadequate for the task at hand. Just because you cannot use a hammer to remove a screw does not mean that the hammer is stopping you from unscrewing things. Do not confuse lack of utility with obstruction of goals. These are two different issues.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: Autonomous]
    #922163 -

In reply to:
i can do without the etymology of gibberish


And alot of people could do without you talkin shit all the time, contributing less than zero, and wasting space with your hollow attempts to agitate people vis-a-vis your foul attitude.
Interesting how I bust you for basicly talking ignorant shit in growlogs (to which you had no clever reply), only to have you attempt this diluted retaliation with some canned statement which doesn't even apply to the topic, it's merely a sad attempt at a personal attack meant to derail the discussion. Smoke & mirrors....silly rabbit.
Oops, fuck you, dude.

Vaporbrains, I've seen you around, and all you do is spread negativity. Sparring with words on the internet to fill a void in your life is not living, it's an imitation.
I have never heard a useful thing out of you. For that reason, I'll just ignore you in hopes that you might mature, at least that way I don't have to 'listen' to the foundless crap you spew.

..by any chance have either of you ever had anything genuinely constructive to say regarding mycology, or are you just 'AOL chatroom overflow', trolling message boards?...I'm just curious.

Now then...rather than focus any further on the nuances of the intellectually diminished:
In reply to:

Just because you cannot use a hammer to remove a screw does not mean that the hammer is stopping you from unscrewing things.


Lack of the right tools is an obstacle in getting the job accomplished. It can be an obstruction to your goal, if your goal is to get the job done.

If a hammer is all you have, it will most likely hinder you.

If I have inadequate fuel in my gas tank, it will be an obstacle if I need to drive a distance.
If I have inadequate sterilization, my mycellium can become contaminated.

The distance or the subterranean growth are not the obstacles; the inadequacies are.

If you don't have any other tools, it is definitely a barrier to completing the task; not to mention that using the wrong tool will not get the job done correctly.
Therefor: if your language skills are inadequate to get the job done, they will be an obstacle or barrier to being understood.
Something that "is inadequate for the task at hand" (as you put it) will be an obstruction to achieving your goal.
Language is like a toolbox: you can't pull out a word you don't have. If you need a Torx bit, and all you have is a flathead screwdriver....or a hammer....
Again, a barrier; you can't speak about what you don't know..or at least you shouldn't, lest you make a fool of yourself...but it can be learned. You can buy the right tool, you can learn to speak clearly and concisely....but just like screws, new things come along frequently enough to require new tools from time to time.

That whole lack of this and obstruction of that...sounds like a lot of doublespeak, although I did smoke some pot today. It sounds like you are implying that lack of language skills is something someone chooses to exhibit.
Maybe you would like to elaborate in respects to what I origionally posted, if you can.

Your misinterpretation of what I had to say-from both of you-only serves to reinforce my opinion. Griefers, gofig.

In parting, it fills me with much satisfaction to know that my opinion bothers you enough to illicit a response. Thanks.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: MarkZero]
    #922207 -

*gets lighter*

LET THE FLAME WARS BEGIN!!!!

*cue epic music*

Woo hoo!!!
________________________________

Seriously, Shroomism, Mr_Mushrooms, Lozt Soul... has this thread not deteriorated?

Personal attacks brought over from other forums... sheesh, THAT'S ego.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #922228 -

Now if we would all just used telepathy none of these miscommunications would ever occur  :wink: 


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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: StS]
    #922240 -

oh my fucking god.
SOMETIMES you can express ideas through words.
SOMETIMES you do not know the words or words don't exist to express certain ideas, and rather than fitting the thought into language, you percieve it a different way.
I never stated that I was talking about all thoughts, and your supposed refutations of my statements make no sense, and you are ACTING DUMB. it's not name-calling, it's what i think. would you rather me say "hey, your recent posts are exceedingly nonsensical"?
perhaps "you're a fucking dumbshit nigger" would suffice? it's up to you. excuse me for having an opinion that you seem rather unintelligent and/or possibly illiterate, since you repeatedly miss my point and choose to attack ideas that I haven't expressed.


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


Edited by Albino_Jesus (10/01/02 10:13 AM)

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: Shroomism]
    #922242 -

:sending telepathic message to Shroomism:

:grin:


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"You took too much, man....too much, too much!"

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: Sclorch]
    #922246 -

Yes it has. I think this thread has descended into flame war potential.

People... put your shit aside and try to treat each other with respect. At least while in this forum.

/me slams gavel


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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: Shroomism]
    #922249 -

Quote:
People... put your shit aside and try to treat each other with respect. At least while in this forum.

 




sorry if I can't respect people who can't read  :frown:


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #922265 -

Let's try and learn to be productive with each other.
Click


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