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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Why language is your greatest barrier
    #918954 -

Because you think in terms of spoken english. And could not simply stop any time you want. Should something like life or god be too difficult, or poorly explained, There isnt really another avenue to be persued.... Sure you could go towards another language, but it probably has the same problem. Written symbols, I'm unsure could contain the neccessary information to tell us why the universe is. In order to understand how life could spontaneously generate in the primordial soup, we'd need trilllions and trillions of years worth of symbols, signifigantly more space consuming than the reaction itself. Heh, maybe you're the record of time.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #918975 -

Sometimes I wish I could just beam my thoughts into the head of whoever I need to communicate with. Seems unlikely that most people will ever understand what I'm thinking if all I have is verbal language to communicate with.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #918992 -

the reason language is our biggest barrier is that spoken language pertains to linear thought. most 'deep' thoughts (ie: psychedelic revelations) are non-linear. when you try to convert it to language, it comes out sounding schitzophrenic....


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-akyouser.oner
<(((((((((((((((@~~~

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: akyouser_oner]
    #919068 -

bleh.


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #919129 -

Quote:
Because you think in terms of spoken english. And could not simply stop any time you want. 



I don't. Do you guys? How can you think in words? Do you picture a sheet of paper with words on it? Do you hear spoken English words in your head? My thoughts come in all sorts of formats; pictures, feelings, 'presences' etc. But if I thought only in words I'd shoot myself. Language is a structure laid overtop everything else we know. Before a child learns English, does he not think at all?

:confused:

Someone enlighten me here, my head hurts. 


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #919208 -

.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #919249 -

You do think in words. Any thoughts or ideas you have can only be noted or explained to yourself using the words and terms you know. If you say to yourself, well I see a picture, and that is not words, you are not realizing that you are using the word "picture" to give definition to your idea.


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"You took too much, man....too much, too much!"

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #919295 -

Language is not a barrier, it is a bridge. Just because it can't carry all traffic, does not make it a barrier. There are other ways of getting your ideas across, some ideas just don't 'travel' well.

Edited by Evolving (09/30/02 11:32 AM)

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #919347 -


Quote:
. Before a child learns English, does he not think at all?




:smile:

Quote:
 

Language is not a barrier, it is a bridge. Just because it can't carry all traffic, does not make it a barrier. There are other ways of getting your ideas across, some ideas just don't 'travel' well. 



:smile: 


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: StS]
    #919353 -

In reply to:
You do think in words. Any thoughts or ideas you have can only be noted or explained to yourself using the words and terms you know. If you say to yourself, well I see a picture, and that is not words, you are not realizing that you are using the word "picture" to give definition to your idea



this post is.... dumb?
if you say "I see a picture for this thought" it is communicating what your thoughts seem like to you, not what those thoughts are
you are not defining that thought by "picture"
if you think only in words, and you've never had a thought that isn't expressed well by your current vocabulary, then you have my deepest pities, because your mind isn't very creative.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: ]
    #919360 -

Also, words in the form of sentences are only one way of communicating thoughts. Often times poetry or a more impressionistic form of writing does a much better job than an essay-format idea. Any kind of artistic expression probably evolved out of a desire to communicate concepts that could not be transmitted well through ordinary words. Music, painting, dance, and even facial expressions tell more of a person's inner state than anything that could come out of their mouth. I've found that if you put the time and energy into trying to understand someone else, you can usually do it pretty well.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: StS]
    #919397 -

I guess I'm a freak. I think more in the feelings that certain concepts invoke in me, rather than the words one would use to relate them. The only expection is when I'm remembering spoken or written words, or when I'm using a computer ("File, New, Folder"). :smirk:  But I guess that's the same thing.   


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #919430 -

You are right, in ways.

Often when having some sort of psychedelic experience, one wishes to share that experience with the people you are with.  Often when you are experiencing something that someone else is not, you have no way to express it to them because it is beyond English, which can be frustrating for both the experiencer and the person who is trying to relate.

Often when I do drugs with friends we try to take equal doses so that we can be "on the same level", so that often if one person is experiencing something or seeing something amazing, generally the others can see something similar or share a similar experience.

It is a great feeling when you are tripping with a group of friends and you all are sharing in the same amazing experience, perhaps listening to the same music together or staring at the same clouds in the sky.  Imagine if through some communication you express any feeling to others, that would be great.

Ahh well, communication is hard. :smile: 

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #920061 -

I'm the same way CyberChump...

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #920361 -

You've got it right on the dime, man. Biggest hurdle for me in communication is "translating" what I am thinking into spoken language. More often than not my thoughts come out as a jumble of words or sounds and I have to stop and think for a moment how exactly to say what I'm thinking. My best friends are those people who know what I mean even when words fail me.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #920488 -

First off, why are you making this personal and basically attacking me? What did I do to you? And anyways you missed my point completely.
In reply to:
you are not defining that thought by "picture"



The very act of trying to define means to apply a term to, for the point of memorizing and communicating that idea to others.


--------------------

"You took too much, man....too much, too much!"

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: StS]
    #920502 -

I dissagree man, the only time I use words in my head is when I am trying to express a thought to the outside world. The rest of the time my thoughts are more or less silent (at least in the sense of verbal language).


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: StS]
    #920571 -

First off, why are you making this personal and basically attacking me? What did I do to you?

Be careful to note that this medium is difficult to interpret intentions. I saw no attack either implicit or explicit.

Perception is a tricky thing. If you feel attacked look within.

edit: typo

Edited by Lozt Soul (10/01/02 12:54 AM)

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #920743 -

"Before a child learns English, does he not think at all?"

Why is it that children are a lot more creative and open minded than adults. it might have something to do with lack of mind confining symbol associations.



--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: Why language is your greatest barrier [Re: StS]
    #920780 -

In reply to:
The very act of trying to define means to apply a term to, for the point of memorizing and communicating that idea to others.



but you're not communicating the idea!
you're only communicating your perception of the idea which cannot fit into words
why do you not understand this?
telling someone "my thoughts are in pictures" or any other way of thinking, has nothing to do with your subjective understanding of what that picture means


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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