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Anonymous

Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91888 - 01/21/00 06:35 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Does anyone know what nutrient in rye that the B+ loves? If we had soem mad scientists here, then we could get soem experiments on, and make a pure nutrient substrate that would make 4 foot mushies.
Also i have crushed rye grains and dark rye flour. Which would be better for my b+s?
Anyone know
I am thinking of doing 6 jars MMGG style, 2 jars crushed grain rye, and 4 jars dark rye flour/verm.
Any other ideas?

------------------
Flog and squee
up the tree
see the army flee, flee, flee.



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InvisibleRipper
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Registered: 01/20/00
Posts: 223
Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91891 - 01/21/00 07:47 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Voidshroomer: its the nutrients in the rye, I'm not exactly sure what it is but stamets says that rye contains the following nutrients

Rye Grain
Total Dry Per Ct. 89.5
Protein Per Ct. 12.6
Fat Per Ct. 1.7
Fiber Per Ct. 2.4
N-Free Extract Per Ct. 70.9
Total Minerals Per Ct. 1.9
Calcium Per Ct. 0.1
Phosphorus Per Ct. 0.33
Nitrogen Per Ct. 2.02
Potassium Per Ct. 0.47

Most of that is greek to me =) But if it makes any sense to you, great! Also, alot of people make Rye broth extract. This is a simple method of just boiling rye in a pan with water, eventually the water will boil down add, more. Then it will begin to "bubble" so to speak, and then you want to remove it from the heat, drain the juice, then I simmer this juice to boil off excess water, this is a pure nutrient and can be used for liquid cultures. Producing huge mushrooms doesn't take rye, it takes manure though =P

Happy Growing!



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InvisibleCondi1
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Posts: 502
Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91892 - 01/21/00 10:08 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Ripper,
Finally posted back. No experience with rye. Mostly used to PF, and several self devised methods. Reason why I have been following posts. Guess I just got overwhelmed at first. Heh Heh! Too much good info at once. Overload! Also, remember reading somewhere where B+ was a wood loving, along with Pan Trop. Know your asking about rye, but would appreciate any comparisons to boot! :biggrin:
Thanks Again.
Peace

[This message has been edited by Condi1 (edited January 21, 2000).]



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Anonymous

Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91893 - 01/21/00 10:37 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

a Biochemistry Major says(me)- I'm not trying to flatter myself or impress anyone, but, I do believe that rye has something in it specifically for alkaloid extraction. An alkaloid is the molecule which is in various types of hallucenogenic mushrooms. Infact, the fungus "ergot" I believe it is called grows on rye too. This is the stuff when synthesized correctly makes this shit called lysergic acid diethylamide, or LSD. I would imagine that since rye is such a common substrate to grow, especially hallucinogenic mushrooms on, that it is probably one of the more favorable substrates for extracting your "favorable" alkaloid materials. Growing a four foot shroom would probably be more along the lines of genetic alteration, for example Ryche Hawks claims to his "Cambodian Cubensis" strains which supposedly are among the fastest he has ever seen grow. As far as research goes, this would probably be the most favorable because a mushroom 99.9999% will only grow as big as it is coded to be. Isolating strains of that .00001% to make your "huge" or "potent" mushroom is a time consuming thing. Its not just a matter of adding one chemical and getting an effect. Anyways, thanks for reading this is just my opinion.


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InvisibleCondi1
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Posts: 502
Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91894 - 01/21/00 11:14 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

capmstr,
You ain't shittin' on the time factor for research. That's why I am glad to run into certain folks hereabouts! The mutual exchange provided here is a tremendous help for us time disadvantaged schmucks! Keep on here, and let me know what you think. New visions can arise, with the proper filters.
Peace!


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Anonymous

Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91895 - 01/21/00 11:31 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I'm short of time dude, I got parties to go to tonight....but I got some cooool ass shit I am workin' on. Keep checkin this page out.


Aright later....



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InvisibleCondi1
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Posts: 502
Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91896 - 01/22/00 01:20 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Bye the way,
Think your reasoning on rye grow buggies and resultant amides may have some merit. Can't say I am totally ignorant of rye grain. Just ignorant on possible transfer through medium. Ergot could hold some possibilities, if you could somehow get them going at the same time, and not get any contaiminations. Big problem! Now, thinking along same lines. If you could pure culture both, separately. Then combine by some method. Heh Heh! :biggrin: Dreamers one and all! Can see the value of experimentation, but no capability in this day and age. Got any good Chem Major buddies?!
Have also seen parties interested in extracting the finest from rue, and somehow introducing this to cultures. Could it happen? No idea. But I am one muther that's keeping watch! :biggrin:
Peace


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InvisibleCondi1
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Posts: 502
Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91897 - 01/22/00 01:57 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Ripper,
Also, cobweb mold like growth common much for EQ's, or a one shot deal? Also, what type of medium? Figured I got an idea, but just wondering. Inquiring minds want to know. Anyway, thanks for posts, and don't fuckin' leave! :wink: Might just have to hunt you down!
Peace

[This message has been edited by Condi1 (edited January 22, 2000).]



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InvisibleRipper
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Registered: 01/20/00
Posts: 223
Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91898 - 01/22/00 10:38 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

First and foremoth I MUST STRESS THAT NO ONE CULTURES ERGOT! It is poisonous, Sure it produces lysergic acid, but the shit is dangerous. If I wanted to culture ergot I'd just dig one of them black seeds outta my bag of rye. Rye grain turns black when its infected with ergot. Many of Napoleons soldiers are believed to have died from eating old rye grain that was contaminated with ergot, they tripped, but died tripping. I don't think anyone wants to die tripping. Hmmph Well the second comment. The cobweb mold style growth, I've heard from a couple different sources that growing EQ's on Rye produces this strange looking Mycellium. Although I lost my recent jars to contamination. The problem was due to the fact I didn't account for having to space the jars out since all the times I've done B+ on rye spacing the jars wasn't an issue, so the immense heat they generated caused a bacterial disastor! There was some mycellia, but it was far too contammed to save. So I guess thats it for my EQ's since that was my last of those. Tee-Hee, I'm gonna order my spores for the month of January, think I'm gonna get some Cambodians.. Should be interesting to say the least. ONCE AGAIN! DO NOT GROW ERGOT IT IS POISONOUS!

Happy Growing Kiddiez.



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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91899 - 01/23/00 12:06 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Capmstr, interesting analysis.

One thing I have always known, is you can bring out the full potential of the genetics within a mushroom bye giving it a favorable substrate, especially one with more nutriants. For example comparing mushrooms grown on rice to birdseed. On birdeed they grow much larger and healthier and more potent.
They have more nutriants to develop to their full potential.

I've received several reports from ppl that grew out the ecaudor on plain rice, and were not impressed, then they grew them out on birdseed and were very impressed with the growth differences and potency.
Taking it one step further, growing the ecuadors on dung produces some HUGE ass mushrooms as some of you have seen from some of the pics I've posted recently.

Now here is another interesting analysis.
Ive seen some pics of this undisclosed strain of cubensis (for now)that grew dinner plate size mushrooms. Well, I got the spores from the source. I grew them out on birdseed. Average size 6"-10" mushrooms. My partner tried them on dung and got average size mushrooms. Another close friend tried them on rye grain. Once again average size mushrooms. The source, Rich from myotech was growing them out on a colonized rye berries, with a 4" layer of his compost on bottom, a 4" layer of rye berries in the middle, and a 4" layer of his compost on top again and getting monster mushrooms.
I've seen some of his other pics of strains I've grown that didn't come close to what he grew on his compost. He even grew some monsters of B+ on his compost. So there is a lot to say about different substrates bringing out the best in the mushrooms.

I have some of his compost (again) and this time I pasturized it before using, although its not suppose to need it, I highly recommend it. Its also very expensive, forwarning. And this time everything, including the slow mazatepec is colonizing the compost extremely fast. I should be casing here soon and hopefully will have some monsters mushrooms to show off :smile:

My point being to all of this, there is a lot to be said about different substrates bringing out the best of the genetics within each strain.

-peace-

[This message has been edited by Ryche Hawk (edited January 23, 2000).]



--------------------
-Peace-

High Quality MUSHROOM SPORES and CULTURES  for microscopy at www.muShrooms.com


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Sacred Mushroom Spores since the late 90's.


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InvisibleCondi1
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Registered: 01/01/00
Posts: 502
Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91900 - 01/23/00 12:21 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Ripper,
Thanks for info on EQ and B+ experience. Also, meant in no way to suggest anyone culture ergot. Could definately be a dangerous situation!( i.e Big Problems!) Just had to go off on some wishfull dreams. Granted, might have been error in judgement, but still got to wonder! Thanks for all.
Peace

[This message has been edited by Condi1 (edited January 23, 2000).]



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Offlinelares
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Registered: 12/14/98
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Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91901 - 01/23/00 06:53 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I'm wondering if EQ's show that same fluffy, non-rhizomorphic growth style on birdseed.


--------------------
"The universe does a math equation that never even ever really is anywhere in it, and if it spouts out creation, we're on the tip of its tongue, and it asks us where we stand." -- Modest Mouse


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InvisibleRipper
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Registered: 01/20/00
Posts: 223
Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91902 - 01/23/00 11:57 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

lares, my experience with EQ's and birdseed is I almost always have thick white rhizomorphic growth. The Rye jars after 1-2 days become thick and white, its just the first couple days after germination they look like cobweb mold.


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Anonymous

Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91903 - 01/23/00 01:04 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Ripper, thanks for pointing that out that ergot is poisonous. It takes advanced knowledge of organic chemistry as well as knowledge in technical laboratory (distillation, chromatography, analytical chemistry) unless you know exactly what the fuck your doing, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!! Interesting enough on ergot poisoning though, if anyone knows about the Salem witch trials, it is said that the girls who were possesed may have well been poisened with ergot as historians compare many symptoms of ergot poisoning.....

Hey Ryche,
how are you on experimentation with substrate variation; that is what kind of different substrates have you tested. Do you think a mix of rye and bird seed(what kind of bird seed) how much water. Do you think it would be an interesting experiment to cultur mycelium with this mixture and thouroughly mix it with compost/manure? You wouldn't have to sterilize the compost/manure because I believe it has symbiotic bacteria wich allow very favorable growth of mycelium and you tend not to have to worry about contams.

Here is a message from someone on this forum which I copied for sake of reluvency:

This idea came from reading about an 8th grader who was doing a science fair project on plant tissue cultures and he was having trouble with them getting contaminated. Well, this company (Plant Cell Technology, Inc.) sent him a sample of PPM (Plant Preservative Mixture) to help him out and it worked. Well, then I wondered, what if this was used on mushrooms? Would it work? So, I set out to find this out. I contacted the scientist who discovered PPM and asked him what he thought about it. Note: I didn't say anything more than medicinal mushrooms. Well, he said I should test it and see. He suggested I start at the 0.05-0.1% range and if that is too toxic to lower it to 0.025%. Well, here's where you may obtain PPM:
Plant Cell Technology, Inc.
I would also like to point out another interesting product for Tissue Cultures that could possibly be used for Mushroom Cultures as well:
Nutri-Mister 0100 - Ultrasonic Nutrient Mist Delivery System
And for more Tissue Culture fun:

-PsiliPharm



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Anonymous

Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91904 - 01/23/00 01:13 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

oops the links didn't copy

Plant Cell Technology, Inc.
I would also like to point out another interesting product for Tissue Cultures that could possibly be used for Mushroom Cultures as well:
Nutri-Mister 0100 - Ultrasonic Nutrient Mist Delivery System
And for more Tissue Culture fun:

-PsiliPharm
All thanks goes to PsiliPharm



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Anonymous

Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91905 - 01/23/00 01:18 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Damn I feel stupid there is a problem, the links aren't showing up, anyone know what the problem is?


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Anonymous

Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91906 - 01/23/00 08:25 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, after reading all of our comments on this thread, i have an idea.

Why don't we try birdseed as Ryche suggests, but steep or add the rye broth!!!
It seems like birdseed is very nutrient filled as Ryche says, but why not use the Rye broth instead of any water?
It seems like a logical idea??

If everyone agrees someone should make an advanced substrate tek!!

Any comments?

------------------
Flog and squee
up the tree
see the army flee, flee, flee.



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InvisibleRipper
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Registered: 01/20/00
Posts: 223
Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91907 - 01/23/00 09:51 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

VoidShroomer: I would like to point out that ryche suggested that a more nutrient enriched substrate provides healthier fruit bodies in the rice flour vs birdseed method. Although, I know that Psilocybe Cubensis loves Rye Grain, and can be cased on just plain rye grain and produce magnificent fruits. Although I always transfer my colonized rye to straw. And alot of people say that straw requires additives for healthy shrooms. This is not so. I've grown EXTREMELY healthy shrooms using just rye and straw. Nothing else. Stamets said it in TMC and he was right. I'm sure he tried other things, in fact he mentions alot fo different types of grains and their place in cultivation. He reccomends the Rye though for its ease of shaking. Although. Doing a multi-spore innoculation a jar does colonize in VERY many places, not really requiring shaking through the colonization proccess, yet having individually broken up kernels when it comes time to spawn is great. If someone just desired to grow straight out of a jar then using a different type of grain may be a good idea. Although, Rye+straw produces EXTREMELY healthy, and I think the only thing above the quality of these would be ones grown on Dung. I'm working with Dung right now...hehe. We'll see how that goes!


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Anonymous

Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #91908 - 01/24/00 12:41 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Ryche Hawk - I just sent for your Cambodian syringe, and I am interested in a healthy substrate to grow it out on. How do other grains besides rice or rye stack up, like quinoa or bulgur or millet? What if you threw a little bit of each into the mix? Is it possible to add too many proteins to the substrate?

------------------
Peace and Love, Baby!



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Offlinewalt
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Registered: 06/13/02
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Re: Do You Use Rye.. READ THIS!
    #741691 - 07/12/02 02:30 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

found this post in a search.

its fact filled.
a lot of people are working with eqs.

so i thought i'd bring this to the top.


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Paul Stamets, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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