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InvisibleSimisu
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some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech
    #9187326 - 11/05/08 05:09 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It can't happen without you, without a new spirit of service, a new spirit of sacrifice.

So let us summon a new spirit of patriotism, of responsibility, where each of us resolves to pitch in and work harder and look after not only ourselves but each other.





to me this is some scary scary out look for what he´s asking the American people!!!

as if Americans are not already working too hard selling their lives for minimum wages with no benefits only to serve mega corporations with too much money and bad conduct.

i hate how these seemingly ¨patriotic¨and hopeful speeches always imply worse and worse things that we´ll have to endure. never talking about actually making simple honest good choices, breaking down a rotten system... nope... nothing of that sort!

just more work and more hardships, so get ready Americans you obviously have more shit coming your way :omgawesome: (that´s being very cynic, just in case someone thinks otherwise)


what does this quote imply to you?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Simisu]
    #9187329 - 11/05/08 05:19 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

> what does this quote imply to you?

To me, it implies national socialism... mandatory service to the state, higher taxes, fewer jobs, the decline of the middle class with everybody becoming equal in poverty.  Perhaps I am wrong, but based upon Obama's past, I don't think this is the case.

I hate to bring it up, but listening to Obama speak, and listening to Hitler speak, there are way too many similarities, both in message, and in eco-political circumstances, for me to be comfortable.  Give me a tinfoil hat, and lets hope that I am wrong.  (I'm not implying that Obama is going to go militaristic/genocidal on the world.  Rather, I am speaking towards the cultural changes he seems to be pushing for, along with blaming a small (wealthy) segment of the population for the majority of societies problems.)


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Offlinemonkeywrench
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Seuss]
    #9187343 - 11/05/08 05:32 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> what does this quote imply to you?

To me, it implies national socialism... mandatory service to the state, higher taxes, fewer jobs, the decline of the middle class with everybody becoming equal in poverty.  Perhaps I am wrong, but based upon Obama's past, I don't think this is the case.

I hate to bring it up, but listening to Obama speak, and listening to Hitler speak, there are way too many similarities, both in message, and in eco-political circumstances, for me to be comfortable.  Give me a tinfoil hat, and lets hope that I am wrong.  (I'm not implying that Obama is going to go militaristic/genocidal on the world.  Rather, I am speaking towards the cultural changes he seems to be pushing for, along with blaming a small (wealthy) segment of the population for the majority of societies problems.)


I agree unfortunately


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[quote]skalthren said:
It's nice of you to imply that I've been brainwashed by the government, but the truth is that I'm simply intelligent enough to recognize the subtleties of these issues instead of going "durr hurr, weed should totally be legal!"[/quote]

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Simisu]
    #9187501 - 11/05/08 07:20 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


as if Americans are not already working too hard selling their lives for minimum wages with no benefits only to serve mega corporations with too much money and bad conduct.




You do realize that something like less than 5% of Americans make minimum wage, right?

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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Seuss]
    #9187526 - 11/05/08 07:37 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

What's the whole deal with this mandatory service, its just an idea right? I don't think we would ever see mandatory service to the state, Rush Limbaugh would personally murder obama.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Rebirtha]
    #9187722 - 11/05/08 08:56 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

> What's the whole deal with this mandatory service, its just an idea right?

An idea that has been openly discussed quite a bit by various leftist members of congress.  The most common form requires all US Citizens (not illegal aliens, of course) between the ages of 18 to 42 to serve two years in either the US military or working as a civil servant within the US federal government (such as border patrol, airport security screener, etc).

For example, http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR00393:@@@L&summ2=m


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: Seuss]
    #9187729 - 11/05/08 08:59 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

.


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.

Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 01:05 AM)

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Offlinephi1618
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Rebirtha]
    #9187732 - 11/05/08 09:00 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

FDR on sacrifice:
Quote:

First, we must, through heavier taxes, keep personal and corporate profits at a low reasonable rate.

Second, we must fix ceilings on prices and rents.

Third, we must stabilize wages.

Fourth, we must stabilize farm prices.

Fifth, we must put more billions into war bonds.

Sixth, we must ration all essential commodities which are scarce.

And seventh, we must discourage installment buying, and encourage paying off debts and mortgages.




Of course, there was a war on, and the circumstances were very different. The post-war period saw the most dramatic expansion of the US economy in recent history.

I believe that the philosophy that states that we serve the common good best by serving ourselves first is deeply flawed and not an inherent part of the American ideal. There is no doubt that there will be some loss of luxury and privilege in America in the coming years regardless of who the president is or what he does; this is an inevitable consequence of past actions. However, there is nothing wrong or unAmerican in calling for cooperation and service to the common good.

This is not the beginning of an inevitable slide into communism, nor is it the end of the capitalist dream. It is movement away from a flawed laizzes faire ideology.

Of course, any new system will be flawed, as well, but those are the facts of life.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Simisu]
    #9188210 - 11/05/08 10:43 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Simisu said:
Quote:

It can't happen without you, without a new spirit of service, a new spirit of sacrifice.

So let us summon a new spirit of patriotism, of responsibility, where each of us resolves to pitch in and work harder and look after not only ourselves but each other.





to me this is some scary scary out look for what he´s asking the American people!!!

as if Americans are not already working too hard selling their lives for minimum wages with no benefits only to serve mega corporations with too much money and bad conduct.

i hate how these seemingly ¨patriotic¨and hopeful speeches always imply worse and worse things that we´ll have to endure. never talking about actually making simple honest good choices, breaking down a rotten system... nope... nothing of that sort!

just more work and more hardships, so get ready Americans you obviously have more shit coming your way :omgawesome: (that´s being very cynic, just in case someone thinks otherwise)


what does this quote imply to you?




I agree with him.  Most people create their own hardships by being very unskillful about taking care of their own financial wellbeing. Then they whine when they are in trouble and blame somebody else for the problems they create for themselves.  The American public created this mess and they are the ones who have to fix it.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Icelander]
    #9188367 - 11/05/08 11:14 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. - JFK


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Green_T]
    #9188500 - 11/05/08 11:38 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

green_titan said:
Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. - JFK




One of the most totalitarian quotes ever.  And yet, widely admired by most Americans.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9188513 - 11/05/08 11:40 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

If you want to see it that way. As an American living in a supposed free country however it makes me responsible for keeping it that way. To support my country with my actions is what I try to do every day.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Simisu]
    #9188569 - 11/05/08 11:52 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

What is the sentiment in Israel in regards to Iran/Russia and Obama being elected?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Icelander]
    #9188586 - 11/05/08 11:55 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

A government of FREE citizens exists for one purpose and one purpose only.  To serve those citizens.  They don't call them "civil servants" for nothing.  Well, they do but it isn't supposed to be that way.

If I was eligible for conscription I would serve it in a cell.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9188626 - 11/05/08 12:03 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Unfortunately we are not a country of free citizens as you well know. This is one reason I would rather take responsibility then have the Government do it. IMO it's a very corrupt system and the populace is too ignorant or corrupt themselves to see this fact and face it down.

I'm on a one man campaign to be a patriot for America. This means I need to be as pro active as possible and not rely (as much as I am able and willing) on a system of government that I consider to be corrupt and limiting to my freedom. I certainly don't want to whine and blame govt. about things that I create by being spoiled and ignorant.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDeekay
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Icelander]
    #9194522 - 11/06/08 10:21 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I agree with him.  Most people create their own hardships by being very unskillful about taking care of their own financial wellbeing. Then they whine when they are in trouble and blame somebody else for the problems they create for themselves.  The American public created this mess and they are the ones who have to fix it.




to say 'most' people here is a complete fallacy. some, sure but the amount of 'completely financially irresponsible' citizens is nowhere near close to a majority nor a significant subcategory...


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Offlinecitricacidx
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9194642 - 11/06/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

all i know is i can't wait to start getting money for doin absolutely nothing. yay redistribution of wealth! [/sarcasm]

Why would I want to work hard, go through school to get a degree, work my way up the corporate ladder to make money that will just be taken away from me and given to the people who just sat around and didn't do shit? If the government had a large some of money that they didn't take from anyone or taxes etc, and used that, sure why not. But taking from people who have worked and earned their money to give to people who just don't feel like working is complete and total bullshit. It's the reason for people like this:



A woman who has admitted to living on welfare for 57 of her 58 years, complaining about living in a slum? Hardwood floors and a 60inch tv? Fuck, where do I sign up?


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OfflineDeekay
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: citricacidx]
    #9196391 - 11/06/08 04:01 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

citricacidx >

what about citizens on welfare that are forced to remain in the system because their welfare check is more than any job they can find, full or part time, and cannot be employed because the welfare money they require to get by will stop coming if they make too much (which is often still less than their welfare checks). One day I wish to see positive major welfare reform and the day welfare is not the derogatory word we associate with poverty here in the United States but the everyday term that has become integral in many European nations.


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OfflineTurning Left
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9196479 - 11/06/08 04:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Deekay said:
citricacidx >

what about citizens on welfare that are forced to remain in the system because their welfare check is more than any job they can find, full or part time, and cannot be employed because the welfare money they require to get by will stop coming if they make too much (which is often still less than their welfare checks). One day I wish to see positive major welfare reform and the day welfare is not the derogatory word we associate with poverty here in the United States but the everyday term that has become integral in many European nations.




We could reduce the amount of welfare they receive depending on their situation.  This should sufficiently motivate them to get out of the house and find a better paying job, don't you think?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9196512 - 11/06/08 04:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Deekay said:
citricacidx >

what about citizens on welfare that are forced to remain in the system because their welfare check is more than any job they can find, full or part time,




They are not forced.  They are bums by choice, which choice should be removed from them.
Quote:

and cannot be employed because the welfare money they require to get by will stop coming if they make too much (which is often still less than their welfare checks).




Bums by choice.  Also, I seriously doubt your assertion that the income level which disqualifies one for welfare is less than welfare.  I call bullshit.
Quote:

One day I wish to see positive major welfare reform and the day welfare is not the derogatory word we associate with poverty here in the United States but the everyday term that has become integral in many European nations.




People who will not work and choose to remain on welfare are bums.  There is no other word for them.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: citricacidx]
    #9196518 - 11/06/08 04:24 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

There was something similiar to that a few months back that said "women can't afford food" and they where both about 400 pounds.

Thats whats so hilarious about this whole thing.The poor people here have Food and Water and big screen TV's health care. They just truely believe they deserve more than that.


This might be the only case of class warfare in history. That is so hysterical, and ridiculous that there is a good chance that both groups get a substantially lower standard of living than before.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9196560 - 11/06/08 04:30 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

green_titan said:
Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. - JFK




One of the most totalitarian quotes ever.  And yet, widely admired by most Americans.




I know what I can do... unfortunately sedition charges will soon follow

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: buckwheat]
    #9196607 - 11/06/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Here's another one
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/22/the-shut-up-white-boy-woman-is-the-slum-dweller-with-a-60-inch-tv/

57 of her 58 years on the dole, pimping grievance and watching a 60 inch TV.  Money quote, "I thank god for a place to live but it's pitiful what people give you."
Somebody please shoot this pig.


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Offlinecitricacidx
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9196658 - 11/06/08 04:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Deekay said:
citricacidx >

what about citizens on welfare that are forced to remain in the system because their welfare check is more than any job they can find, full or part time, and cannot be employed because the welfare money they require to get by will stop coming if they make too much (which is often still less than their welfare checks). One day I wish to see positive major welfare reform and the day welfare is not the derogatory word we associate with poverty here in the United States but the everyday term that has become integral in many European nations.




Welfare was not meant to sustain anyone for extended periods of time. Welfare was introduced in the US after the Great Depression to help Americans pay for basic needs until they could get a job and provide for themselves.

I agree 100% with zappaisgod's response to your post.

Also, that woman who has been on welfare 57 of her 58 years alive is the same woman in my picture :awesome:


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9196686 - 11/06/08 04:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

It would be great if someone made a documentary showing more people like this.:lol:

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OfflineTheylikethatshit
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Simisu]
    #9196958 - 11/06/08 05:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It can't happen without you, without a new spirit of service, a new spirit of sacrifice.

So let us summon a new spirit of patriotism, of responsibility, where each of us resolves to pitch in and work harder and look after not only ourselves but each other.




:congrats:

This was directed more to the people who arent contributing members to society.
I dont think hes saying people who are already displaying those qualities should take it up a notch:shrug:


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OfflineDeekay
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9200511 - 11/07/08 06:32 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Turningleft >

Why reduce the amount of thier welfare checks, besides for it's lack of reform, the welfare system in America, rather than gain funding, has remained stagnant as inflation has risen and the checks received by welfare participants are worth far less and do not go as far as they used to. Cutting the amounts would negatively affect those on welfare legitimately using it(an overwhelming majority of the participants). Additionally, a fun fact for you most people on welfare are white middle age adults that are on the system for less than two years.

Zappa >

To your points, to assume any significant part of the welfare system is composed of 'bums' (as you'd like to call them) abusing it and willingly choose to stay on it is a stereotypical and ignorant assumption. Educate yourself.

EDIT:

citricacidx >

The idea of welfare is not to sustain people for extended periods of time, however, the system is stacked against those that are in it. Statistics have shown that most people can break free of the system in between one and two years (the latter being the majority), which to me constitutes a extended amount of time. With that said the system now does not serve to 'supplement people as they work to get back on their feet' because they cant do that without having their figurative crutch kicked out from under them. If we are to appeal to original ideals of the system it's focus should be about helping people break free of the system, in greater numbers and more quickly.


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Edited by Deekay (11/07/08 07:18 AM)

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OfflineJax
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9200637 - 11/07/08 07:47 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The future leader of our country calls for us to be compassionate, and people are scared of this? That's sad. It's this hyper-individualistic mentality displayed here that's run our country into the ground these past several decades.

Standards of living are relative. Yes, many poor in America may live in apartments with TVs, cellphones, and computers; however their health care is shit, the food they eat is shit, the educations they get is shit, and their life expectancies are dramatically lower, among other things.


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Offlinecitricacidx
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9200960 - 11/07/08 09:27 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Deekay said:
citricacidx >

The idea of welfare is not to sustain people for extended periods of time, however, the system is stacked against those that are in it. Statistics have shown that most people can break free of the system in between one and two years (the latter being the majority), which to me constitutes a extended amount of time. With that said the system now does not serve to 'supplement people as they work to get back on their feet' because they cant do that without having their figurative crutch kicked out from under them. If we are to appeal to original ideals of the system it's focus should be about helping people break free of the system, in greater numbers and more quickly.




It may sound tough, but life's not always fair and comfortable. Sometimes people will need to not eat out as much or turn off lights as soon as you're not in the room to save electricity, maybe be without cable for a while. TV is not a basic human right, it's an unnecessary pleasure.

Welfare is just an abused system that needs to be reworked. How you get on it, how you get off it, etc.

And, not that I am for drug testing, but if the money comes from people who were probably drug tested to get their jobs, people on welfare should also be drug tested before they are allowed to get a check.


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OfflineDeekay
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: citricacidx]
    #9201035 - 11/07/08 09:42 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

citricacidx said:
Quote:

Deekay said:
citricacidx >

The idea of welfare is not to sustain people for extended periods of time, however, the system is stacked against those that are in it. Statistics have shown that most people can break free of the system in between one and two years (the latter being the majority), which to me constitutes a extended amount of time. With that said the system now does not serve to 'supplement people as they work to get back on their feet' because they cant do that without having their figurative crutch kicked out from under them. If we are to appeal to original ideals of the system it's focus should be about helping people break free of the system, in greater numbers and more quickly.




It may sound tough, but life's not always fair and comfortable. Sometimes people will need to not eat out as much or turn off lights as soon as you're not in the room to save electricity, maybe be without cable for a while. TV is not a basic human right, it's an unnecessary pleasure.

Welfare is just an abused system that needs to be reworked. How you get on it, how you get off it, etc.

And, not that I am for drug testing, but if the money comes from people who were probably drug tested to get their jobs, people on welfare should also be drug tested before they are allowed to get a check.




The point that life is not always supposed to be fair or easy is true, but the stipulation is that the lives of welfare most recipients are below standard living conditions. The media and selective news articles will paint a portrait for you to believe that one in three people on welfare have big screen T.V.'s and live comfortably but that is not the truth, for every article consider the thousands of untold stories of disenfranchised citizens just trying to get by. Welfare's largest problem is not it's abuse. Welfare, to put it simply, is a broken system that is easily fixable with some effort and funding, but again because of the negative connotation associated with it in American society it is dificult to make changes without loosing ground already like we saw in the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. Additionally, your points about drug testing is completely unrelated to the main argument here, though I do and fully would support the implementation of drug testing welfare recipients.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9201069 - 11/07/08 09:48 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Where are your statistics that show the majority of people collecting welfare are looking for jobs, stopped having children they couldn't afford, and or, used the time to go back to school?

How many on welfare are truly using it to help pull themselves back up and out?

What's the percentage?

Until you change the mental attitude of those that see going on welfare as a career choice, nothing much will change.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9201096 - 11/07/08 09:53 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Deekay said:
Additionally, your points about drug testing is completely unrelated to the main argument here, though I do and fully would support the implementation of drug testing welfare recipients.




At least we can agree on that :awesome:

Personally I hate drug testing and that invasion of privacy, but if the person earning the money gets tested, the person receiving the money should also get tested.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: citricacidx]
    #9201133 - 11/07/08 09:59 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Anyone who is receiving welfare should be required to maintain a drug and alcohol free life in order to receive benefits.  Period.  Most of their struggles are due to their life style choices, i.e. "I was gonna go to work, but then I got high."  And babies, the unacknowledged life destroyer.  Neither group, social con or liberal whack, will talk about this.  Liberals because it keeps their constituency in thrall, social cons because they deny sex and can't abide abortion.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9201839 - 11/07/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:

Until you change the mental attitude of those that see going on welfare as a career choice, nothing much will change.




Or abolish welfare in its current state altogether so that it cannot be exploited in the ways it has been and stop trapping people in their own complacency.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Jax]
    #9202180 - 11/07/08 01:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jax said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:

Until you change the mental attitude of those that see going on welfare as a career choice, nothing much will change.




Or abolish welfare in its current state altogether so that it cannot be exploited in the ways it has been and stop trapping people in their own complacency.




:yesnod:


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9202262 - 11/07/08 01:54 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Where are your statistics that show the majority of people collecting welfare are looking for jobs, stopped having children they couldn't afford, and or, used the time to go back to school?

How many on welfare are truly using it to help pull themselves back up and out?

What's the percentage?

Until you change the mental attitude of those that see going on welfare as a career choice, nothing much will change.




I do not have those statistics, thus i did not post them. I contrast do you have any statistics to support your claim that a significant portion are exploiting the system (burden of proof, but that's not what this is about)? In addition, you seem to think that the system works in a manner where you qualify for welfare or housing discounts and receive a check or discount immediately with no strings attached. It does not work this way. There are many barriers and policies that retard progress in, through, and out of the system. In New York City for example they have simulated work programs (SWP's) where the recipient is required to work 30+ hours a week at an assigned job, which could be in any part of the city, that the recipient is required to work. Do students in college or high school get a break from these SWP's? Typically the answer is no, in fact a judge ruling the case of a junior year student of Hunter College said that, "she needed to learn what it meant to show up for work everyday" (ill pull up citations for this if you really need them). Even though she was working her way through college already, the state clearly values her working minimum wage in the custodial position she was assigned more than her four year college degree. This is just one of many examples of how people making an honest effort to emerge out of poverty are pushed back down. Also, I challenge you to find some statistics that show what percentage of welfare recipients(18+) have high school educations and above, I do not know these statistics offhand but I have a hunch they will be much higher than you would think.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9202288 - 11/07/08 01:57 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Welfare makes some people complacent. Complacent people by definition are not motivated to challenge themselves or enact change, thus welfare is harmful and a trap in many cases. I'm not sure why you find that so funny, I think it's pretty sad.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9202367 - 11/07/08 02:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

What????????? Was that an example a joke?

Are you telling me that she thinks she deserves to get a college degree without having to support her way through college?

I can name hundreds of people I know who supported themselves through college with nothing more then a HS Diploma. They get roomates, they cut expenses to the bare bone, they get jobs, sometimes 2 or 3. Some of them worked their ass off and got it done in 4 years. For some it took 6-8 years but they did it.

What are you talking about her being pushed down? Maybe I misunderstood something.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9204804 - 11/07/08 09:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said
What Was that an example a joke

Are you telling me that she thinks she deserves to get a college degree without having to support her way through college

I can name hundreds of people I know who supported themselves through college with nothing more then a HS Diploma. They get roomates, they cut expenses to the bare bone, they get jobs, sometimes 2 or 3. Some of them worked their ass off and got it done in 4 years. For some it took 6-8 years but they did it.

What are you talking about her being pushed down Maybe I misunderstood something.




Big misunderstanding on my part. I left out some very important details out of laziness, apologies. The girl's mother originally was the welfare recipient and used the money to pay for shelter and food, but was injured making it impossible to participate in the SWP program that she was assigned to, because of this welfare threatened cut her off. Her daughter who was already working 40 hour weeks while going to school was forced to take up her mother position at the SWP in addition to her first job and school. Eventually, she was forced between finishing school and the SWP, which dictated weather or not she had a place to live. Hopefully this clears some things up, also sorry for the late reply my girlfriend picked me up right before I had a chance to hit submit!


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9206677 - 11/08/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

So why aren't you offering to send the mother checks to pay for her rent and food?

You're young and healthy. You can get an extra job to help her out so her daughter can finish college. Or, if every supporter of the welfare system pitched in, it would cost you all pennies a year to help this mother and daughter.

To many Obama supporters simply do not practice what they preach to others in support of him. Why is that?



You probably think the welfare system in that state needs to add a disability pay program for such cases, huh?

I think, if people think they need to steal from me to take care of others people children for them, then I have the right to insist that everyone gets sterilized until they can prove to me that they have the means and resources to never need my assistance.

Why do people take their ability to reproduce soo lightly, then cry for help when they can't manage?

Doesn't this mother have any family that can take her in?

How freaking selfish can she be to make her daughter have to quit a chance at a college degree to take care of her ass. I would go live in a box and beg in the streets before I asked my daughter to do that for me. I wouldn't let her if she offered-which she would.

I never even would have considered the one child I do have, if I didn't have dozens of family members to take in her, or both of us in, if something happened to my husband,  and I fell into the financial shits.

Why do people with zero resources bring children into this world? I don't get why some people think that other peoples children and ailing parents are the tax payers responsibility.

I'm not the sort of person that takes prescription drugs to mask symptoms of a larger problem with my health growing worse. I look for cause, and find the cure.

America has become a silly nation that raises taxes and borrows money to slap bandaids all over gapping wounds (recent bailout included) and it's a no wonder why we are grower weaker and more pathetic.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9211152 - 11/09/08 10:58 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
So why aren't you offering to send the mother checks to pay for her rent and food?

You're young and healthy. You can get an extra job to help her out so her daughter can finish college. Or, if every supporter of the welfare system pitched in, it would cost you all pennies a year to help this mother and daughter.

To many Obama supporters simply do not practice what they preach to others in support of him. Why is that?



You probably think the welfare system in that state needs to add a disability pay program for such cases, huh?

I think, if people think they need to steal from me to take care of others people children for them, then I have the right to insist that everyone gets sterilized until they can prove to me that they have the means and resources to never need my assistance.

Why do people take their ability to reproduce so lightly, then cry for help when they can't manage?

Doesn't this mother have any family that can take her in?

How freaking selfish can she be to make her daughter have to quit a chance at a college degree to take care of her ass. I would go live in a box and beg in the streets before I asked my daughter to do that for me. I wouldn't let her if she offered-which she would.

I never even would have considered the one child I do have, if I didn't have dozens of family members to take in her, or both of us in, if something happened to my husband,  and I fell into the financial shits.

Why do people with zero resources bring children into this world? I don't get why some people think that other peoples children and ailing parents are the tax payers responsibility.

I'm not the sort of person that takes prescription drugs to mask symptoms of a larger problem with my health growing worse. I look for cause, and find the cure.

America has become a silly nation that raises taxes and borrows money to slap bandaids all over gapping wounds (recent bailout included) and it's a no wonder why we are grower weaker and more pathetic.




Why is it that you assume all children on welfare are born while one or both parents are on welfare? The mother did not have an income outside of her welfare and SWP job. Her disability did not allow her to work and the welfare check is something that her and her daughter both depended on to live. The daughter could not continue with college or her other job homeless so the choice was blatantly obvious and not a situation forced upon either of them by an individual. Rather it was the welfare system perpetuating their poverty in both normal and extraordinary circumstances. Also, I don't see why you view welfare as stealing from you, these are people who have fallen on hard times or, through other circumstances, set them in a situation where they need to turn to their government, if the situation I described is 'stealing' your book what does justify turning to your government for individual aid? Additionally, Welfare and the bailouts are completely different, welfare aids people who need the money for basic needs and helps them immediately. The bailouts on the other hand help corporations that may not effect everyone's economic interests as equally as it does their tax dollars. Also, when is the last time you saw anything close to 700 billion spent on welfare? Why don't I help out people on welfare? Firstly, because that's where some of my tax dollars are spent(and it's not much more than the pennies you described above believe it or not), secondly I am a full time college student (both terrible excuses in your book I'm sure). Consider this, were the victims of Hurricane Katrina stealing your precious money anymore than the welfare recipients who are in the system by no major fault of their own? Or is the Louisianan's fault for living in such a low lying area?


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9211177 - 11/09/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Also, when is the last time you saw anything close to 700 billion spent on welfare?




How about this last federal budget?

Between Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Unemployment/Other Welfare, we spent 1.5 TRILLION dollars in 2008.

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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Redstorm]
    #9211194 - 11/09/08 11:10 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Also, when is the last time you saw anything close to 700 billion spent on welfare?




How about this last federal budget?

Between Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Unemployment/Other Welfare, we spent 1.5 TRILLION dollars in 2008.




key word welfare


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9211218 - 11/09/08 11:14 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Welfare is nothing but entitlement programs where you receive something you did not pay for. All of the above are included in that definition.

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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Simisu]
    #9211561 - 11/09/08 12:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

the quote implies to me that Obama is the anti-Christ and he is very communist. The only person that can save us now is Jesus Christ. I am looking forward to 2012.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Redstorm]
    #9211624 - 11/09/08 12:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

> Welfare is nothing but entitlement programs where you receive something you did not pay for. All of the above are included in that definition.

Social security and unemployment benefits are funded by money that you (or your employer on your behalf) pay in to the system and are not really entitlement programs to the same extent as the others that were listed.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Seuss]
    #9211650 - 11/09/08 12:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, but you don't have to have paid into SS to receive it. For example, many children receive it after parent(s) die. Unemployment you're correct about, though.

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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Redstorm]
    #9211687 - 11/09/08 12:48 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

> For example, many children receive it after parent(s) die.

I believe that they receive based upon what the dead parent paid into the system, and only until they turn 18.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Deekay]
    #9211937 - 11/09/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Deekay,

The government takes the money from out of our income. We do not give it to them, they TAKE it from us. If we refuse to give it to them, we are sent to jail. It is a form of theft.

When people turn to the government for help, where do you think the government gets it's money from? It takes it from people who have it.

Even Alan Greenspan has been quoted as saying that the federal reserve System and the federal Income tax it began imposing, is nothing more then a system to confiscate more wealth from Americans.

How much do you pay in taxes a year anyway Deekay? Wait until you start seeing at least 5 digit numbers being pulled from your wallet every year by uncle Sam. Then, you might start to become concerned about wasteful and mismanaged government spending.

If you care so much, why don't you invite that injured woman to come live with you? Why are you not working around the clock to help pay for these peoples rent and food yourself????

Will you allow some of us to come to your home and confiscate everything you own, so we can sell it on e-bay and send this woman a check? You must be doing very well by global standards if you have a computer and internet access. Surely you must have wealth of your own for us to redistribute to this family since you believe they deserve rights to what you have earned.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Simisu]
    #9211956 - 11/09/08 01:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It can't happen without you, without a new spirit of service, a new spirit of sacrifice




Ya....right... how Hitlerish of him to ask that Americans pull their heads out of their asses and get their fat asses off the couch and HELP OUT. 

This country has fallen apart because of laziness and assuming that somebody else is going to make things better.  Were A country of people that consistently denies their personal responsibilities to making life for EVERYONE better.  Not just themselves. 

And when we are asked to step it up and be MEN and WOMEN we get irritated because we just want to continue being selfish and lazy.  So what do we do?  Post ridiculously negative shit about how a man that hasnt even had a chance to show what he's really made of is going to bring the world down. 

It seems as simple as not being able to break free from the fear cycles that so many past leaders have instilled.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: aDoS]
    #9211976 - 11/09/08 01:47 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

the quote implies to me that Obama is the anti-Christ and he is very communist. The only person that can save us now is Jesus Christ. I am looking forward to 2012




You cannot be serious. 

Heres a little wake up call jerky.  JESUS CHRIST ISNT COMING BACK TO SAVE YOUR SORRY ASS OR ANYBODY.  WE NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND SAVE OURSELVES. 

That religious fanatical view point is destroying this country if you ask me.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9212065 - 11/09/08 02:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nasal drip said: This country has fallen apart because of laziness and assuming that somebody else is going to make things better.




Sounds like you beleive chronic welfare recipients  are the cause of this country falling apart then.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #9212108 - 11/09/08 02:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sounds like you beleive chronic welfare recipients  are the cause of this country falling apart then.




What?  Where did you pull that out of? Your ass is my first guess?  No, I believe that people of all ethnicities, ages, social status, religions etc. are sharing a viewpoint that they think things should be handed to them.  Simple as that.  they want to deny personal responsibility and sit back while the government does all the work required to provide them with the lifestyle they want.


Are you saying that this country hasnt gotten fat, lazy, selfish and doesnt take their freedoms for granted, on the whole?


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9212294 - 11/09/08 02:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not going to debate the functionality, implementation, or effectiveness of our tax system in this thread Jiggy, if you'd like to make a thread about it I'll check it out for sure. No doubt there are flaws, no government institution is without imperfection, and it's easy to see how citizens giving so much and receiving so little might feel like the system is working against them. As for taking someone in, I do not have the capacity to because I am dorming at school. Howevr, my parents were more than happy to take in a Swedish exchange student who was in a pretty bad situation where she was originally placed when I lived with them. She stayed with us for about a year and I'm confident that if a situation like that arose again and I was in a position to help like my parents did, I would.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9212559 - 11/09/08 03:48 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

That is your opinion, I already gave you mine, and I am sticking with it.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: aDoS]
    #9212573 - 11/09/08 03:52 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

You are a jack ass if you think jesus is coming to save you


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9212988 - 11/09/08 05:02 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Fucka buncha Jesus.  Zappa is coming.  And he knows what you've been doing, so get stroking right now.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9213011 - 11/09/08 05:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

HAHAHA!  thats awesome.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9213586 - 11/09/08 06:47 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

postanaldrip said:I believe that people of all ethnicities, ages, social status, religions etc. are sharing a viewpoint that they think things should be handed to them.




I think a bigger problem is that people think they shouldn't have to make sacrifices for others.


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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Jax]
    #9213727 - 11/09/08 07:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I think a bigger problem is that people think they shouldn't have to make sacrifices for others.




I agree.


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Invisiblemr.bixby
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9213970 - 11/09/08 07:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Why are so many people on this site afraid of Obama being president?  The inflation rate and national budgets are records from the last president.  When you predict that it's going to be poor and communist like I see more of it being like many of the european socialist countries with less billionaires and more millionaires, more access to health care and hopefully more progressive laws.
Why are there worries about having to serve two years for the government or welfare?  I haven't heard him say anything about increasing welfare or such.  What's so bad about cutting the "defense" and Iraq budget and using it in more productive areas in the United States? 
Yes welfare for the people who can work and don't needs to be reformed but many of these posts are a little over the top in my opinion.
And for the guy posting with the Ronald Reagan picture.  I get your joke.  PUB

Edited by mr.bixby (11/09/08 08:12 PM)

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InvisibleSimisu
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: postanaldrip]
    #9216273 - 11/10/08 03:47 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

postanaldrip said:
Quote:

It can't happen without you, without a new spirit of service, a new spirit of sacrifice




Ya....right... how Hitlerish of him to ask that Americans pull their heads out of their asses and get their fat asses off the couch and HELP OUT. 

This country has fallen apart because of laziness and assuming that somebody else is going to make things better.  Were A country of people that consistently denies their personal responsibilities to making life for EVERYONE better.  Not just themselves. 

And when we are asked to step it up and be MEN and WOMEN we get irritated because we just want to continue being selfish and lazy.  So what do we do?  Post ridiculously negative shit about how a man that hasnt even had a chance to show what he's really made of is going to bring the world down. 

It seems as simple as not being able to break free from the fear cycles that so many past leaders have instilled.




i have no issue with what he seems to be asking (which is what you´re talking about), what i WAS trying to say is that what he is asking implies slightly different things (to me anyway) it´s the choice of words that scare me!

as i see it Americans don´t need to sacrifice anything, they need to grow the fuck up and get educated. they need to change that capitalistic don´t give a shit attitude towards each other (as was well demonstrated in this thread) and get their priorities straight but certainly not sacrifice and serve under a big bad machine that is their rotten government... nuh uh...


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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Simisu]
    #9216599 - 11/10/08 07:20 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Simisu said:
Quote:

postanaldrip said:
Quote:

It can't happen without you, without a new spirit of service, a new spirit of sacrifice




Ya....right... how Hitlerish of him to ask that Americans pull their heads out of their asses and get their fat asses off the couch and HELP OUT. 

This country has fallen apart because of laziness and assuming that somebody else is going to make things better.  Were A country of people that consistently denies their personal responsibilities to making life for EVERYONE better.  Not just themselves. 

And when we are asked to step it up and be MEN and WOMEN we get irritated because we just want to continue being selfish and lazy.  So what do we do?  Post ridiculously negative shit about how a man that hasnt even had a chance to show what he's really made of is going to bring the world down. 

It seems as simple as not being able to break free from the fear cycles that so many past leaders have instilled.




i have no issue with what he seems to be asking (which is what you´re talking about), what i WAS trying to say is that what he is asking implies slightly different things (to me anyway) it´s the choice of words that scare me!

as i see it Americans don´t need to sacrifice anything, they need to grow the fuck up and get educated. they need to change that capitalistic don´t give a shit attitude towards each other (as was well demonstrated in this thread) and get their priorities straight but certainly not sacrifice and serve under a big bad machine that is their rotten government... nuh uh...





Very BIG and VERY BAD machine... runaway fucking freight train...


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: some scary thoughts from the acceptance speech [Re: Seuss]
    #9216682 - 11/10/08 08:01 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> For example, many children receive it after parent(s) die.

I believe that they receive based upon what the dead parent paid into the system, and only until they turn 18.





My great grandma recieved ss till she was in her nineties- for free.  Never paid for it.  I guarentee her husband didn't pay that much into it.


Do you have a source that you reieve what you put into welfare?  I thought the whole thing was a pyramid scheme, which is why we're projected to have problems (thanks bush and company for passing medicare part D... we really needed that open eneded gift the the pharm companies- further infaltionary pressure on pharms).
.

If the government actually paid what they recieved the program would be much less objectionable.  As it seems, you pay whatever congress deems you pay and you have no guarentee of getting that out.


Quote:

postanaldrip said:
Quote:

It can't happen without you, without a new spirit of service, a new spirit of sacrifice




Ya....right... how Hitlerish of him to ask that Americans pull their heads out of their asses and get their fat asses off the couch and HELP OUT. 

This country has fallen apart because of laziness and assuming that somebody else is going to make things better.  Were A country of people that consistently denies their personal responsibilities to making life for EVERYONE better.  Not just themselves. 





You sound like one of those people who thinks selfishness is bad. 


How much income tax do you pay if I can ask?  0?  less than a thousand?


Given the highly progressive nature of our tax structure I don't really think people that pay shit in to the system speak from much authority when they blindly appeal to a possible positive outcome of other people's money being spent.

Given our country's present taxes there is no damn reason we need anything extra from the american people.  We need a president and congress who will look at every single bill at his desk and say "why?".  And if he can't justify the legality or prudence of federal intervention vote no.

Quote:

Why are so many people on this site afraid of Obama being president?  The inflation rate and national budgets are records from the last president.  When you predict that it's going to be poor and communist like I see more of it being like many of the european socialist countries with less billionaires and more millionaires, more access to health care and hopefully more progressive laws.
Why are there worries about having to serve two years for the government or welfare?  I haven't heard him say anything about increasing welfare or such.  What's so bad about cutting the "defense" and Iraq budget and using it in more productive areas in the United States?
Yes welfare for the people who can work and don't needs to be reformed but many of these posts are a little over the top in my opinion.
And for the guy posting with the Ronald Reagan picture.  I get your joke.  PUB




People are afraid of freedom's being taken away.  The constitution.  The contract.  If bush and the republican congress wasn't such a horrible joke I'd be much more concerned abou tobama.  People don't like the patriot act and the effect on our rights.  People don't like fisa.  People don't like bailouts.  People don't like the war in iraq.  People don't like the constitution being ignored as the second amendment or the commerce clause.  People don't like capital gains being doubled and forcing money out of our buisnesses.  People don't like men who support all these positions.

1)  Why the hell would you want less millionaires and more billonaires?  You want us poorer?  That good for anybody?  No... I want a job.  I want to work for someone with money to pay me who's check won't bounce.  I don't want people with means fleaing the country and our economy or exporting their wealth.

2)  Do you really think Obama will make any meaningful cut in defense spending?  I don't.  Barring current or even future conflicts being considered,  I sincerely doub the'll do anything at or greater than 10%.  He allready said he wants to spend more in Afghanistan. 

3)  Why do we need federal welfare at all?  hm?  Why should I pay for someone thousands of miles away who I don't give a shit about and who lives in an area with no jobs but won't move?




And you may want us all to live like in europe, but I like less regulation, more money, more jobs, more wealth. Thanks, but no thanks- don't care to turn our billionaires to millionaires.


Edited by johnm214 (11/10/08 08:21 AM)

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