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Invisiblehamandcheese
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 12,530
Loc: Next Level
Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: wildchild68]
    #9188310 - 11/05/08 11:03 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wildchild68 said:
Quote:

hamandcheese said:
a popular vote would be horrible. sound good, who ever most people vote for should be the winner. but that means the residents of a state like rhode island vote means nothing. therefore they go unrepresented, and rural votes dont mean shit either. candidates need only cater to large states and big cities.






That's only looking at it from the state perspective though.

A person's vote would would be assigned the same importance no matter what state they live in.

I think both of these proposed systems would be better than the one we have now.




what perspective are you looking at it?

the problem is the votes dont have the same importance. not now, but it would be far worse under popular election.

if i live in a rural area how likely is that the candidates will try to get my vote? very slim. why because they don't need it. they could win by just focusing on urban areas. what the urban areas want, their needs, their agendas, their concerns. my rural voice goes unheard. now im left to do something on my own some how. my only real choice to do something is move to the city, where the candidates might listen to me. the country becomes solely urban based. people flood the cities, their systems get overwhelmed , we all suffer. maybe you dont see this, but then consider the states that would run the country. california texas florida newyork etc why do these states deserve the sole right to set the agenda?

im sorry but your being really narrow if this is what you want. sure the system isnt perfect but why implement a more flawed system because you don't like the one in place? it seems counter productive. especially when there are more viable reform paths. look up how its run in maine and nebraska and let me know how you feel about those systems.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: hamandcheese]
    #9188380 - 11/05/08 11:18 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Ding Ding Ding!

Give the man a sandwich.

Good to see someone gets it. To bad many others aren't as smart.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: Feeling_of_Sound]
    #9188391 - 11/05/08 11:19 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)


It was put into effect back in the day because the founding fathers believed the citizens of this country were too ill-informed/stupid to make an educated decision.


Gee they really saw what was going on didn't they.

Now tell me again how things have changed?:grin:

I do agree that the electoral college is stoopid.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: Feeling_of_Sound]
    #9188635 - 11/05/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The electoral college does not exist out of some vision of the electorate as stupid.  It exists, as does the Senate, as a sop to get the smaller states, which feared being swamped into irrelevance by the Virginias and Massachusetts', to sign on to the Constitution.  Without it there would be no United States.  Get over it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9188676 - 11/05/08 12:15 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

All one united country right Zap? One man one vote and all that. Majority wins! This is how I was taught to play fair in school.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: Icelander]
    #9188777 - 11/05/08 12:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

What are you talking about?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9188874 - 11/05/08 12:48 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

That the majority should rule in democracy. That we are supposed to be all one tribe. What else? Ya know, if you don't love it you can leave it. Isn't that what they say?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: Icelander]
    #9188921 - 11/05/08 12:56 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Oi.  I give a history lesson and you give nonsense.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9188954 - 11/05/08 01:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

So all this "One nation under God" was a lie.:whoa: Shit Zapp, I learned this in school.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMistaUNGA
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: Feeling_of_Sound]
    #9188956 - 11/05/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Feeling_of_Sound said:
I think we should count the actual individual votes and decide that way. forget representational democracy, how bout true democracy.




good thing this isn't a democracy. tell me, if it were a true democracy, how would the legislature, judicial and executive branches operate? you can't physically put everybody 2gether to vote. it's not logistically possible. that is why we have a republican form of government.

mob rule does not work. it always turns into chaos, and ends splitting into factions. it is exactly this reason why we have a republic. people are not one homogeneous entity. people have very different views, and all should be listened to, instead of only the majority opinion.

ever wondered why our Justices in the Supreme court write minority dissent reports?

even if we had a popular only vote for pres, THE PRESIDENT IS SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT YOU!! that is REPRESENTATIONAL!!

it kinda irked me last night when obama said that we weren't a nation made up of individuals, but rather one people. that simply isn't true. one population, yes. but i am an individual, and i disagree entirely with him.


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:gc:
Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: Icelander]
    #9189116 - 11/05/08 01:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
So all this "One nation under God" was a lie.:whoa: Shit Zapp, I learned this in school.




I think the Constitution predates the Pledge of Allegiance, especially as modified in the 1950s to include that "under god" shit.  I'm sorry about your schooling.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9189159 - 11/05/08 01:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sorry about your schooling.

It's ok, that's middle America for you. I've forgotten most of it anyway. Still got that damn pledge stuck in my mind though.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: Icelander]
    #9189429 - 11/05/08 02:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That the majority should rule in democracy.




It's tough to take you seriously when you haven't learned that we are not a Democracy. Never were. Was never intended to be.

From the document you so obviously are unable to read:
And to the Republic for which it stands.....

If you can't grasp something so simple and so oft repeated, you don't belong here.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #9189443 - 11/05/08 02:41 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

A Republic can also be a democracy. America is a democracy because its leaders are voted in by the people.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Posts: 34,247
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: zouden]
    #9189475 - 11/05/08 02:47 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
A Republic can also be a democracy. America is a democracy because its leaders are voted in by the people.




:lol:

Get a clue.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #9189532 - 11/05/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Great comeback. :rolleyes:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #9189552 - 11/05/08 03:01 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
That the majority should rule in democracy.




It's tough to take you seriously when you haven't learned that we are not a Democracy. Never were. Was never intended to be.

From the document you so obviously are unable to read:
And to the Republic for which it stands.....

If you can't grasp something so simple and so oft repeated, you don't belong here.




I base my statements on this article. http://www.williampmeyers.org/republic.html


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezouden
Neuroscientist
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
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Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: Icelander]
    #9189565 - 11/05/08 03:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beginning with the Constitution's adoption, America has been a Republic. But the dominant trend over the last two centuries has been to make it into a democracy as well, a representative democracy, also know as a democratic republic.




--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: zouden]
    #9189576 - 11/05/08 03:06 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

It was all that was needed.

I suppose I could have told you to buy a dictionary, or read the numerous quotes from those who wrote the Constitution, but if you don't already know the difference it seems pointless.

It's a shame you don't know the difference.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: abolish the electoral college. [Re: Icelander]
    #9189587 - 11/05/08 03:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

You can base your statement of something you read on a box of Cheerios for all I care.

It's still wrong.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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