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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Is a pencil a pencil?
#9179927 - 11/03/08 09:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Or is it really the isness of a pencil? Can the conceptual mind grasp the isness of a pencil? Or is it not a pencil at all, but simply a figment of our imagination? Or both? Neither?
Are all of the definitions that we give to these objects nothing but a creation of the mind, and nothing more?
It seems there are two (of many) paths people take in life. Some stay in between, confused as to which way to go, or whatever else. But one path deals with taking our definitions of things as reality. The other path is taking these definitions of things as nothing but a mental projection.
Certainly these mental projections serve their purpose. We need vision to create the many great things that exist on earth today.
Mental projections are great, but having the awareness that they are mental projections, and that we often times become identified with them, will further free our binds to them.
For me personally, I often times find myself swimming in my projections. I've been making it a habit and practice to notice myself when indulged in the projections.
The development of self-awareness comes through observing our place in these projections. The more we practice to find ourselves swimming within the process of a projection, the more control we have over our minds. There will be more clarity to see into why it is that we get angry, irritable, condescending, arrogant, ignorant, and there will be more clarity to see what it is that makes us happy, blissful, compassionate, accepting, and open towards new perspectives.
ok that's enough. this valium slows me way down.
to some of you this may be common sense, but when isn't a reminder useful?
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ThinkGreen
Das Ubermench
Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 28
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9179986 - 11/03/08 09:15 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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You should read about Plato and his "Forms"
-------------------- "The ubermenchen...Who has organized the chaos of his passions, given style to his character, and become creative. Aware of life's terrors, he affirms life without resentment." -Friedrich Nietzsche
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: ThinkGreen]
#9179997 - 11/03/08 09:16 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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got link?
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NastyDHL
Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 3,586
Loc: New England
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9180060 - 11/03/08 09:25 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by NastyDHL (11/03/08 09:25 PM)
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: NastyDHL]
#9180166 - 11/03/08 09:45 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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no time for that right now but yeah, i been googling since elementary school thanks for the reminder
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9180183 - 11/03/08 09:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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just read up on it, and it's bang on
"The Platonic idealist is the man by nature so wedded to perfection that he sees in everything not the reality but the faultless ideal which the reality misses and suggests..."
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,177
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9181175 - 11/04/08 05:02 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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like a hall of mirrors you have the experience of the pencil the idea of the pencil the map of the pencil the idea of the map of the pencil the memory of the experience of the pencil the memory of the idea of the pencil.... but they all take place in the same mind
everything except the raw experience of the pencil is a memory event. memory events are more mutable (plastic) than raw experience memory enhances raw experiencing but it can overshadow raw experiencing. sometimes it is a struggle to ballance them.
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9181187 - 11/04/08 05:18 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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According to Will Shakespeare, a pencil is actually a rose.
--------------------
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9181198 - 11/04/08 05:32 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes, a pencil is a pencil, and a pen is.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9181299 - 11/04/08 06:47 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said: I often times find myself swimming in my projections. I've been making it a habit and practice to notice myself when indulged in the projections.
The development of self-awareness comes through observing our place in these projections. The more we practice to find ourselves swimming within the process of a projection, the more control we have over our minds. There will be more clarity to see into why it is that we get angry, irritable, condescending, arrogant, ignorant, and there will be more clarity to see what it is that makes us happy, blissful, compassionate, accepting, and open towards new perspectives.
This is why to me, the best practice is asking 'who am i?' as it constantly brings the attention back into a state of self awareness, it stops or holds back the attention from going with the stream of thoughts
Its almost like the energy that was out there invested in thoughts & outside is now brewing in itself, by simply being self aware, then the tao is aware of the tao, life is aware of life, the source is looking directly at itself
I see this practice as simply staying true to oneself, not falling for anything & staying as who i actually am, not as what i think i am
--------------------
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9181523 - 11/04/08 08:32 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said: Or is it really the isness of a pencil? Can the conceptual mind grasp the isness of a pencil? Or is it not a pencil at all, but simply a figment of our imagination? Or both? Neither?
Are all of the definitions that we give to these objects nothing but a creation of the mind, and nothing more?
It seems there are two (of many) paths people take in life. Some stay in between, confused as to which way to go, or whatever else. But one path deals with taking our definitions of things as reality. The other path is taking these definitions of things as nothing but a mental projection.
Certainly these mental projections serve their purpose. We need vision to create the many great things that exist on earth today.
Mental projections are great, but having the awareness that they are mental projections, and that we often times become identified with them, will further free our binds to them.
For me personally, I often times find myself swimming in my projections. I've been making it a habit and practice to notice myself when indulged in the projections.
The development of self-awareness comes through observing our place in these projections. The more we practice to find ourselves swimming within the process of a projection, the more control we have over our minds. There will be more clarity to see into why it is that we get angry, irritable, condescending, arrogant, ignorant, and there will be more clarity to see what it is that makes us happy, blissful, compassionate, accepting, and open towards new perspectives.
ok that's enough. this valium slows me way down.
to some of you this may be common sense, but when isn't a reminder useful?
What we call a pencil is simply a type of mental experience that appears to be consistent with respect to spatio-temporal context. By defining, categorizing, and organizing the undifferentiated mental experience that is the "real world", we give an objective reality to something that at its foundation is purely mental.
All things are projections, including yourself; recognizing this will only set you free.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: According to Will Shakespeare, a pencil is actually a rose.
i like that.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deCypher]
#9182017 - 11/04/08 10:54 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
All things are projections, including yourself; recognizing this will only set you free.
certain aspects of myself are the projections, but another part of myself is that which is doing the projecting. my OP was nothing but a projection. it was an attempt to project the unprojectable.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: like a hall of mirrors you have the experience of the pencil the idea of the pencil the map of the pencil the idea of the map of the pencil the memory of the experience of the pencil the memory of the idea of the pencil.... but they all take place in the same mind
everything except the raw experience of the pencil is a memory event. memory events are more mutable (plastic) than raw experience memory enhances raw experiencing but it can overshadow raw experiencing. sometimes it is a struggle to ballance them.
that made my morning
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Yes, a pencil is a pencil, and a pen is.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9182316 - 11/04/08 12:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said: certain aspects of myself are the projections, but another part of myself is that which is doing the projecting.
What happens when you realize that that which is doing the projecting and that which is being projected are one and the same?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deCypher]
#9182411 - 11/04/08 12:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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you see the self as multidimensional and with many layers of consciousness that can be experienced. i dunno, maybe?
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9182521 - 11/04/08 12:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Is a pencil a pencil?
Yes.
A pencil is a pencil, a rock is a rock and a table is not a car.
If you don't have the time to read what Plato had to say about this subject, why did you start this thread?
Facts are facts.
Yes, a pencil can be used for more than writing (just ask the Joker) but it will always be a pencil if it remains a sharpened piece of wood with a tube of solid graphite running down its center.
Anybody who claims otherwise is delusional... and ignores logic.
But who cares? Even if they don't believe a pencil is a pencil, it doesn't change the simple fact that a pencil IS a pencil. More pencils for me!
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9183332 - 11/04/08 04:00 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Be sure to check out my thread on 'The Pencil Of Nicaea'. Funny how everything is interconnected.
--------------------
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9183646 - 11/04/08 04:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Is a pencil a pencil?
Yes.
A pencil is a pencil, a rock is a rock and a table is not a car.
If you don't have the time to read what Plato had to say about this subject, why did you start this thread?
Facts are facts.
Yes, a pencil can be used for more than writing (just ask the Joker) but it will always be a pencil if it remains a sharpened piece of wood with a tube of solid graphite running down its center.
Anybody who claims otherwise is delusional... and ignores logic.
But who cares? Even if they don't believe a pencil is a pencil, it doesn't change the simple fact that a pencil IS a pencil. More pencils for me!
duhh.
is that as far as you got?
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9183682 - 11/04/08 05:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said: Or is it really the isness of a pencil? Can the conceptual mind grasp the isness of a pencil? Or is it not a pencil at all, but simply a figment of our imagination? Or both? Neither?
Are all of the definitions that we give to these objects nothing but a creation of the mind, and nothing more?
It seems there are two (of many) paths people take in life. Some stay in between, confused as to which way to go, or whatever else. But one path deals with taking our definitions of things as reality. The other path is taking these definitions of things as nothing but a mental projection.
Certainly these mental projections serve their purpose. We need vision to create the many great things that exist on earth today.
Mental projections are great, but having the awareness that they are mental projections, and that we often times become identified with them, will further free our binds to them.
For me personally, I often times find myself swimming in my projections. I've been making it a habit and practice to notice myself when indulged in the projections.
The development of self-awareness comes through observing our place in these projections. The more we practice to find ourselves swimming within the process of a projection, the more control we have over our minds. There will be more clarity to see into why it is that we get angry, irritable, condescending, arrogant, ignorant, and there will be more clarity to see what it is that makes us happy, blissful, compassionate, accepting, and open towards new perspectives.
ok that's enough. this valium slows me way down.
to some of you this may be common sense, but when isn't a reminder useful?
Not once you've sharpened it all the way to the bottom, then it's a stump
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,177
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Be sure to check out my thread on 'The Pencil Of Nicaea'. Funny how everything is interconnected.
Bithynia had the best hos but no pencil sharpeners.
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9183733 - 11/04/08 05:10 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said:
Quote:
Cervantes said: Is a pencil a pencil?
Yes.
A pencil is a pencil, a rock is a rock and a table is not a car.
If you don't have the time to read what Plato had to say about this subject, why did you start this thread?
Facts are facts.
Yes, a pencil can be used for more than writing (just ask the Joker) but it will always be a pencil if it remains a sharpened piece of wood with a tube of solid graphite running down its center.
Anybody who claims otherwise is delusional... and ignores logic.
But who cares? Even if they don't believe a pencil is a pencil, it doesn't change the simple fact that a pencil IS a pencil. More pencils for me!
duhh.
is that as far as you got?
I don't see you arguing.
You got a case to make?
Make it.
And read some Plato!
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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mr_kite
The Watcher
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Wow two pencil sharpener related gags a mere second apart. Wait...the telepathy thread!
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9183839 - 11/04/08 05:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: You got a case to make?
Make it.
And read some Plato!
so because Plato already came up with some of the ideas i mentioned in the OP, i shouldn't have made the post at all? i was high and felt like writing something. is there something wrong with that?
if you don't like the thread, GTFO. so far you've shown no understanding of what i was trying to convey in the OP.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9184139 - 11/04/08 06:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dude... pull your head out.
This is a DEBATE forum.
I LIKE this thread precisely BECAUSE I disagree with you.
So far, I am the only one debating on POINTS.
After you finish Plato, review the rules of this forum.
And stay on topic. For God's sake, you asked if a pencil is a pencil. I said it is. Now, it is your turn. Go ahead. PROVE me wrong.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9184233 - 11/04/08 06:43 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
For God's sake, you asked if a pencil is a pencil.
then you got hooked quite nicely. funny how you took it so literally.
seriously, chill. this was meant to be a fun thread, not something to be taken so seriously.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9184807 - 11/04/08 08:01 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: After you finish Plato, review the rules of this forum.
naah
Quote:
And stay on topic.
naah
i will not respect your authoritah
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9184998 - 11/04/08 08:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have no authoritah' over you.
But others do.
You wanna' hang here?
Obey the fuckin' rules...
Or... See yuh!
You want to taunt me? Instead of arguing your point?
Go ahead...
People around here are smart enough to know what it means when someone can no longer argue their point...
But just in case YOU aren't one of the smart ones... here's what it means:
It means you have nothing more to offer.
So go ahead and throw a tantrum...
You just lost an argument.
Welcome to P&S.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (11/04/08 08:34 PM)
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9185266 - 11/04/08 09:09 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm the one throwing a tantrum? I'm laughing my ass off.
Quote:
You want to taunt me? Instead of arguing your point?
I've seen nothing from you that has any relevance at all to what the OP is about. I'm not going to argue with you over your misinterpretations. But if someone wants to debate an idea in my OP that is of relevance, then I would be happy to do that.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9185580 - 11/04/08 09:46 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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The dictionary of words
defines itself in linear circles.
Who dares look inside
disappears.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9185640 - 11/04/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I've seen nothing from you that has any relevance at all to what the OP is about.
Nice try.
Now, for the third time: You asked in your OP... in the TITLE LINE of your OP... "Is a pencil a pencil."
I answered, "YES."
You've been filibustering ever since.
The literate already know this is what I have said TWICE in this VERY FUCKING THREAD. So go ahead and pretend I have not.Doesn't change facts. A post is a post... and I posted "Yes".
Your turn.
Gonna' keep throwing your tantrum? Or, are you finally gonna' participate in the thread you started?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9185829 - 11/04/08 10:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Now, for the third time: You asked in your OP... in the TITLE LINE of your OP... "Is a pencil a pencil."
I answered, "YES."
duh a pencil is a pencil. i didn't think anyone would've taken it that literally. but it's funny that you did. this is why i asked before - is that as far as you got?
Quote:
Gonna' keep throwing your tantrum? Or, are you finally gonna' participate in the thread you started?
Gonna' keep projecting your imagination and mistake it for reality? this is a fun debate, nothing to tantrum about.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9185854 - 11/04/08 10:24 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9185991 - 11/04/08 10:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Once you've finished reading Plato... and the rules... you really SHOULD read the other pinned thread in this forum about fallacies of philosophical debate.
You need to learn HOW this forum works...
Or you're gonna' get yourself banned.
I'm being honest here... and remember, I have no authroitah'.
I just designed this forum.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9186225 - 11/04/08 11:17 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Or you're gonna' get yourself banned.
Quote:
I just designed this forum.
must be a powerful feeling
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9186295 - 11/04/08 11:27 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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NO... not powerful.
A powerful feeling would come from actually getting you to read the pinned threads and getting you to obey the rules.
Obviously I can't... I am nowhere near powerful enough.
So, we'll see who has the power over you. It certainly is not me.
Now, for the last time... wanna' get back on topic? In the thread YOU started?
This ain't OTD.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9186357 - 11/04/08 11:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:Now, for the last time... wanna' get back on topic?
Ok, so what exactly is it that you're arguing against?
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9186384 - 11/04/08 11:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ignorance.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9186448 - 11/04/08 11:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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since we're on topic... how does this relate to the OP?
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9186542 - 11/05/08 12:18 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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NIce try...
Go to OTD or read this forum's pinned threads and LEARN from them.
Then come back to your thread, THIS thread, and start debating.
This is not debate.
You won't last long in here, unless you wish to defend your POINTS.
Do you really want to keep rehashing this off topic argument all night?
Good fer yewwww!
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9186582 - 11/05/08 12:26 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: NIce try...
Go to OTD or read this forum's pinned threads and LEARN from them.
Then come back to your thread, THIS thread, and start debating.
This is not debate.
You won't last long in here, unless you wish to defend your POINTS.
Do you really want to keep rehashing this off topic argument all night?
Good fer yewwww!
you are the one who wants debate. i didn't come in here with the intent to debate. this is a debate forum, but it's not a requirement to debate all the time. i am open for debate, however you have to give me something to debate about. so if you want your debate, give me something to debate about.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9186594 - 11/05/08 12:28 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said:
you are the one who wants debate. i didn't come in here with the intent to debate.
Christ!
Then here's hoping you leave.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9186608 - 11/05/08 12:30 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said: give me something to debate about.
"Is a pencil a pencil?"
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Sleepwalker]
#9186654 - 11/05/08 12:39 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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a pencil is a pencil, yes; but a pencil is also not a pencil because 'pencil' is a mental label and idea. when a baby sees a pencil it doesn't see a pencil. from a nonconceptual perspective the pencil is not a pencil. there is no pencil.
so, the pencil is.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9186681 - 11/05/08 12:43 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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K.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9186711 - 11/05/08 12:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Christ!
Then here's hoping you leave.
nay, this is fun.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9186759 - 11/05/08 12:55 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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As far as I can tell, all's you want to do is get the last word in.
You've certainly given up on your own thread.
So here's your chance!
Go ahead.
Have the LAST word.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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zannennagara
Found in Space
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 433
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9186769 - 11/05/08 12:56 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I submit to you that a pencil cannot be a pencil.
What is meant by "a pencil" is "Tao"(/etc.), and saying anything about it (calling it a pencil, saying "a pencil is a pencil") ceases this isness.
The ultimate definition of a pencil is, essentially, something that is not everything that is not a pencil, so the definition actually hinges on everything not being a pencil, meaning "pencil" is contingent on, let us say, anti-pencil matter, meaning "a pencil" is not just what is meant by a pencil; indeed it requires mostly non-pencilhood.
"A pencil is a pencil" masquerades as a true statement by adding "is a pencil," as if an extra claim of existence ensured the truth of "a pencil" in covering up the meaninglessness of the word itself.
This entire post is a philosophy-hating lie.
-------------------- No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
#9186856 - 11/05/08 01:12 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: So here's your chance!
Go ahead.
Have the LAST word.
peace
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
#9186871 - 11/05/08 01:14 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, words are like magic. We want to get a grip onto reality by them. Some think words are more real than what they describe. But words can be wrong, reality never is. I would turn around Platos' words and say, our ideals are imperfect because they don't fit the reality of nature
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#9186900 - 11/05/08 01:20 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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