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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisiblederanger
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Is a pencil a pencil?
    #9179927 - 11/03/08 11:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Or is it really the isness of a pencil?  Can the conceptual mind grasp the isness of a pencil?  Or is it not a pencil at all, but simply a figment of our imagination?  Or both?  Neither?

Are all of the definitions that we give to these objects nothing but a creation of the mind, and nothing more?

It seems there are two (of many) paths people take in life.  Some stay in between, confused as to which way to go, or whatever else.  But one path deals with taking our definitions of things as reality.  The other path is taking these definitions of things as nothing but a mental projection.

Certainly these mental projections serve their purpose.  We need vision to create the many great things that exist on earth today.

Mental projections are great, but having the awareness that they are mental projections, and that we often times become identified with them, will further free our binds to them. 

For me personally, I often times find myself swimming in my projections.  I've been making it a habit and practice to notice myself when indulged in the projections. 

The development of self-awareness comes through observing our place in these projections.  The more we practice to find ourselves swimming within the process of a projection, the more control we have over our minds.  There will be more clarity to see into why it is that we get angry, irritable, condescending, arrogant, ignorant, and there will be more clarity to see what it is that makes us happy, blissful, compassionate, accepting, and open towards new perspectives.

ok that's enough.  this valium slows me way down.

to some of you this may be common sense, but when isn't a reminder useful?


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OfflineThinkGreen
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9179986 - 11/03/08 11:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You should read about Plato and his "Forms"


--------------------
"The ubermenchen...Who has organized the chaos of his passions, given style to his character, and become creative. Aware of life's terrors, he affirms life without resentment." -Friedrich Nietzsche


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: ThinkGreen]
    #9179997 - 11/03/08 11:16 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

got link?


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OfflineNastyDHL
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9180060 - 11/03/08 11:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



Edited by NastyDHL (11/03/08 11:25 PM)


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #9180166 - 11/03/08 11:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

no time for that right now
but yeah, i been googling since elementary school
thanks for the reminder


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9180183 - 11/03/08 11:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

just read up on it, and it's bang on

"The Platonic idealist is the man by nature so wedded to perfection that he sees in everything not the reality but the faultless ideal which the reality misses and suggests..."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9181175 - 11/04/08 07:02 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

like a hall of mirrors
you have the experience of the pencil
the idea of the pencil
the map of the pencil
the idea of the map of the pencil
the memory of the experience of the pencil
the memory of the idea of the pencil....
but they all take place in the same mind

everything except the raw experience of the pencil is a memory event.
memory events are more mutable (plastic) than raw experience
memory enhances raw experiencing
but it can overshadow raw experiencing.
sometimes it is a struggle to ballance them.


--------------------


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9181187 - 11/04/08 07:18 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

According to Will Shakespeare, a pencil is actually a rose.


--------------------


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9181198 - 11/04/08 07:32 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, a pencil is a pencil, and a pen is.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9181299 - 11/04/08 08:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
I often times find myself swimming in my projections.  I've been making it a habit and practice to notice myself when indulged in the projections. 

The development of self-awareness comes through observing our place in these projections.  The more we practice to find ourselves swimming within the process of a projection, the more control we have over our minds.  There will be more clarity to see into why it is that we get angry, irritable, condescending, arrogant, ignorant, and there will be more clarity to see what it is that makes us happy, blissful, compassionate, accepting, and open towards new perspectives.





This is why to me, the best practice is asking 'who am i?' as it constantly brings the attention back into a state of self awareness, it stops or holds back the attention from going with the stream of thoughts

Its almost like the energy that was out there invested in thoughts & outside is now brewing in itself, by simply being self aware, then the tao is aware of the tao, life is aware of life, the source is looking directly at itself

I see this practice as simply staying true to oneself, not falling for anything & staying as who i actually am, not as what i think i am

:peace:


--------------------
   
   


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9181523 - 11/04/08 10:32 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
Or is it really the isness of a pencil?  Can the conceptual mind grasp the isness of a pencil?  Or is it not a pencil at all, but simply a figment of our imagination?  Or both?  Neither?

Are all of the definitions that we give to these objects nothing but a creation of the mind, and nothing more?

It seems there are two (of many) paths people take in life.  Some stay in between, confused as to which way to go, or whatever else.  But one path deals with taking our definitions of things as reality.  The other path is taking these definitions of things as nothing but a mental projection.

Certainly these mental projections serve their purpose.  We need vision to create the many great things that exist on earth today.

Mental projections are great, but having the awareness that they are mental projections, and that we often times become identified with them, will further free our binds to them. 

For me personally, I often times find myself swimming in my projections.  I've been making it a habit and practice to notice myself when indulged in the projections. 

The development of self-awareness comes through observing our place in these projections.  The more we practice to find ourselves swimming within the process of a projection, the more control we have over our minds.  There will be more clarity to see into why it is that we get angry, irritable, condescending, arrogant, ignorant, and there will be more clarity to see what it is that makes us happy, blissful, compassionate, accepting, and open towards new perspectives.

ok that's enough.  this valium slows me way down.

to some of you this may be common sense, but when isn't a reminder useful?




What we call a pencil is simply a type of mental experience that appears to be consistent with respect to spatio-temporal context.  By defining, categorizing, and organizing the undifferentiated mental experience that is the "real world", we give an objective reality to something that at its foundation is purely mental.

All things are projections, including yourself; recognizing this will only set you free.  :thumbup:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9182000 - 11/04/08 12:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
According to Will Shakespeare, a pencil is actually a rose.




i like that.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deCypher]
    #9182017 - 11/04/08 12:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

All things are projections, including yourself; recognizing this will only set you free.  :thumbup:




certain aspects of myself are the projections, but another part of myself is that which is doing the projecting.  my OP was nothing but a projection.  it was an attempt to project the unprojectable.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9182041 - 11/04/08 01:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
like a hall of mirrors
you have the experience of the pencil
the idea of the pencil
the map of the pencil
the idea of the map of the pencil
the memory of the experience of the pencil
the memory of the idea of the pencil....
but they all take place in the same mind

everything except the raw experience of the pencil is a memory event.
memory events are more mutable (plastic) than raw experience
memory enhances raw experiencing
but it can overshadow raw experiencing.
sometimes it is a struggle to ballance them.




that made my morning :thumbup:


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OfflineLion
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #9182248 - 11/04/08 01:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yes, a pencil is a pencil, and a pen is.


:lol:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9182316 - 11/04/08 02:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
certain aspects of myself are the projections, but another part of myself is that which is doing the projecting.




What happens when you realize that that which is doing the projecting and that which is being projected are one and the same?

:yinyang:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deCypher]
    #9182411 - 11/04/08 02:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

you see the self as multidimensional and with many layers of consciousness that can be experienced.  i dunno, maybe?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: deranger]
    #9182521 - 11/04/08 02:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Is a pencil a pencil?

Yes.

A pencil is a pencil, a rock is a rock and a table is not a car.

If you don't have the time to read what Plato had to say about this subject, why did you start this thread?

Facts are facts.

Yes, a pencil can be used for more than writing (just ask the Joker) but it will always be a pencil if it remains a sharpened piece of wood with a tube of solid graphite running down its center.

Anybody who claims otherwise is delusional... and ignores logic.

But who cares? Even if they don't believe a pencil is a pencil, it doesn't change the simple fact that a pencil IS a pencil. More pencils for me!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
    #9183332 - 11/04/08 06:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Be sure to check out my thread on 'The Pencil Of Nicaea'. Funny how everything is interconnected.


--------------------


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Is a pencil a pencil? [Re: Rose]
    #9183646 - 11/04/08 06:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Is a pencil a pencil?

Yes.

A pencil is a pencil, a rock is a rock and a table is not a car.

If you don't have the time to read what Plato had to say about this subject, why did you start this thread?

Facts are facts.

Yes, a pencil can be used for more than writing (just ask the Joker) but it will always be a pencil if it remains a sharpened piece of wood with a tube of solid graphite running down its center.

Anybody who claims otherwise is delusional... and ignores logic.

But who cares? Even if they don't believe a pencil is a pencil, it doesn't change the simple fact that a pencil IS a pencil. More pencils for me!




:lol: duhh.

is that as far as you got?


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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