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Anonymous

Re: I'm High [Re: Spiffy]
    #918374 - 09/30/02 02:24 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

"If this is what you mean by "innocence" than I don't believe you can regain it in the same sense, although you can reasses the world and find a way to feel safe in it despite any negative factors."

Thank you Spiffy


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
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Re: I'm High [Re: ]
    #918400 - 09/30/02 02:30 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Once they have learned them they are impossible to unlearn.

This is untrue. There have been experiments done where an individual from one culture was transplanted into another and through enculturation the person begins to assimilate and take on the new set of values of his new surroundings.

If you were suddenly living in a place where it was not only OK but expected of you to tell someone when they are fat, you might feel a bit uneasy at first but in time you will unlearn that Taboo and learn the new things that are expected of you.


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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OfflineViBrAnT
WaRpInG &sPiRaLiNg
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 286
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: I'm High [Re: ]
    #918405 - 09/30/02 02:31 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Fear is not something you have to live with, it is a choice and that choice has been deeply ingrained in your consciousness since you were a child. Now the question for you is to either accept it or let it go, to live in peace.


Do you accept the dream as a reality or do you manipulate the illusion?


--------------------
" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "




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Anonymous

Re: I'm High [Re: chemkid]
    #918426 - 09/30/02 02:37 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Please give references, cite the studies, and then proceed.  I can pull lots of rabbits out of my hat but that doesn't mean they are real.

I want to see the real bunnies.

Besides, you missed the point. 

If I scarcely can believe the hard sciences because of their erroneous philosophical presuppositions do you really think I'd swallow, wholesale, the load of nonsense like sociology?

Please come back with the evidence in hand.  Till then we're in limbo. :wink:

Cheers, 


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Anonymous

Re: I'm High [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #918430 - 09/30/02 02:37 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Allllllll righty then.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: I'm High [Re: ]
    #918466 - 09/30/02 02:51 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I say that knowledge of taboos and evil does not equate to loss of innocence. One can see the world as a hateful, malicious place full of evil, recognize that evil, and choose to not participate in it. See my new post.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
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Re: I'm High [Re: ]
    #918469 - 09/30/02 02:52 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I am not asking you to do anything as foolish as swalllow something wholesale like sociology. I feel too that most of it and Freud is a load of dung. This doesn't mean that you can't observe something and take it for what it is. I am not asking you to believe that a bananna in a dream means you're psycho. Nothing that needs interpretation. Surely you can see this fact first hand though. This is what the whole peer pressure thing is. This is what enculturation is. How many times have you flip-flopped on something you thought you believed? (If you say never than you're lying) This happens most frequently to people as children. They are subject to many more changes in peer groups. As we get older we begin to linger a bit in the same social scenes, gatherings, types of friends, etc. Because of this reason, this is why I used an extreme example of being completely transplanted to a different culture. You honestly believe that being in different peer groups and different situations wouldn't change your ideas or perceptions of ideas?

What would become exceptable if you were to be imprisoned? You whole philosophy and value set will change. I am not saying you couldn't hold true to those things that you believe to be universally true, like murder being wrong, however you will be enculturated at some point.

As to the goods you asked for.......I don't have a library of sociology/psychology literature here with me. If my answers won't suffice then I will look for the proof you want. I think you would have to agree that this point is self evident though.


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: I'm High [Re: Shroomism]
    #918474 - 09/30/02 02:53 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I was reading it when the notification came in so I checked the forum again.  You interupted me. :smile:

E-q-u-i-v-o-c-a-t-i-o-n

You are right but you are wrong. 


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Anonymous

Re: I'm High [Re: chemkid]
    #918502 - 09/30/02 03:02 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, I understand your point but I do not buy into it.

There are times when our values change as in whether we are in Rome or not but that is not the same thing I am talking about. This is why I said you missed the point.

I am not talking about a type or example of evil. I am talking about evil in all of its forms. There is a time in our lives, read childhood, when we do not know evil exists. Then we learn it does. You cannot undo that anymore than you can convince me that you can do it.

The entire subject is a deep one. It is contained in the section of philosophy known as axiology. We do not, and I certainly do not, have the necessary time to devote to it on this forum.

If you wish to pursue it you may.


Cheers,


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: I'm High [Re: ]
    #918528 - 09/30/02 03:15 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

True...you can not just rip from your mind knowledge of something. Once you know something exists I don't see that it is possible (short of a lobotomy) to not know it exists. So I agree with you on that. However you said that expressions and actions that were taboo could not be unlearned. This is my point of contention.

P.S.  why not devote time to this subject? Is this not the very purpose of this forum? I hope being a moderator hasn't atrophied your philosophical muscles. :grin: 


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: I'm High [Re: chemkid]
    #918541 - 09/30/02 03:21 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Actually I have more responsibilities than most could imagine. The work load is a killer, but only because I take my responsibilities very seriously.

Which is why I said what I did. I knew my contributions would wane after I became Mod and I regret that to some extent. If I had more time to post I wouldn't be here at 3:30 am.

I will follow but I'm afraid I don't have loads of time for the finer points.

Cheers,


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: I'm High [Re: ]
    #918725 - 09/30/02 05:47 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

This does not mean that we cannot live in inner peace but it does mean that once you know what evil is you never forget it. If you did you wouldn't know whether you were innocent or not, would you?


You may never forget what you thought "evil" was, but you may transcend it. I think it's possible to reach (or rather, return to) a state where everything becomes innocent; there are no evil thoughts or actions. Because all things we may think of as evil balance things out when looking at the "bigger picture"...


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: I'm High [Re: Adamist]
    #919302 - 09/30/02 01:44 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Some may choose to buy psychological comfort at the expense of reason.  Me, I prefer cold hard cash. :smile:

Cheers, 


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OfflineAmber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 1,543
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: I'm High [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #919467 - 09/30/02 03:03 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Opening and expanding your mind to new ideas is always a tough thing.

Making a breakthrough or realization is not an easy thing, often when I and friends are thinking deeply, we will break through into realms of thought that had never occured to us before.  Isn't this why we all do drugs? :smile:

Although it is hard to unlearn, I believe it is possible.  Once you uproot the tree of a past belief, it will take a while for the extra bits of root to decay, but it can happen.

Take for instance, my dueling beliefs of what I see as basically Athiest vs. Agnostic.  I was raised to believe in the Christian God and I did, but then I unlearned that.  Next I believed in total Athiesm - no god, no nothing, we are atoms and nothing more important.  Then when my mind began to open, I consider different possibilities.  Right now, I'd say my beliefs are about 50% Athiest-like (no god, no afterlife, no meaning) and 50% an Agnostic-like mix (possibility of a higher power, possibility of some form of afterlife, and a possible meaning to life).  It will take alot to lessen that 50% Atheistic belief, but the ratios in my mind are ever-changing. :smile: 


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: I'm High [Re: ]
    #919527 - 09/30/02 03:40 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

N-u-a-n-c-e-d      W-o-r-l-d-v-i-e-w.

:grin:
 


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InvisiblethePatient
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Re: I'm High [Re: Shroomism]
    #919619 - 09/30/02 04:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Be fluid, like water
Ever changing, ever adapting


I believe Bruce Lee said something like this.


--------------------
T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
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Re: I'm High [Re: thePatient]
    #919656 - 09/30/02 04:48 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Be fluid, like water I believe Bruce Lee said something like this.

Yes he did but I doubt he was the first. This kind of thinking existed throughout eastern philosophy/religion. When Bruce Lee was making this statment he was talking directly about martial arts, not philosophy. The quote is about moving your body like water. "Be formless, shapeless like water. Put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend."


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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OfflineViBrAnT
WaRpInG &sPiRaLiNg
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 286
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: I'm High [Re: postalboy]
    #920282 - 09/30/02 09:07 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Bruce Lee understood the greatest secret in all the universe, being. Do you think that god shows up only one way? that would be an error in thinking, God is everywhere.


--------------------
" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "




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Anonymous

Re: I'm High [Re: infidelGOD]
    #920611 - 09/30/02 10:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I enjoyed that. :smile:

You do well.  I am glad you are here.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: I'm High [Re: thePatient]
    #922148 - 10/01/02 11:29 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

If I ever had a role model, Bruce Lee was it.


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