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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: flameclown]
    #9171519 - 11/02/08 08:11 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

flameclown said:
Quote:

No laws should be directed to someone's motivation




isnt this the basis for a hate crime?

if you murder someone you get x years, if its racially motivated you get 2x.




Yes, that's my whole point: these are unconstitutional laws.  And fighting words is bullshit and doesn't need nor call for an "exemption" to that oh so fickle wording in the law, which was... hmm.... oh yeah:  "congress shall make no law"

That's about it.

I don't give  a shit if you kill my girlfriend cuz you don't like her race or you don't like her car.  Its stupid, its unacceptable, and you should go to jail for the intentional commision of a premeditated act.  I don't care why you did it unless such is a defense to the act itself.

We live in a world now where you can be arrested for saying "nigger".  Fuck that.  That law pris mentioned is a restriction on free speech plain and simple. 

Is reading a newspaper article fighting words?  No?  Well then I guess that law isn't narrowly tailored and is surely unconstitutional (so unconstitutional Biden is blushing)- you must choose the least restrictive means to limit free speech.


If you intend to incite riots thats one thing.  If you say a word that a rational person wouldn't burn down his neighbor's house over (which is every conceivable word) then there can be no offense.  If someone attacks you for it that sucks for you- maybe you should learn not to piss people off.  But to say you can't' say the word is crap.


If I want to read "to kill a mockingbird" i should be allowed to.  If I want to read the news, I should be allowed to.  If I want to read court opinions I should be allowed to.  If I want to join luddite and denounce niggers, I should be allowed to.  All these things commonly have that word in it.  That jackasses are driven to self-deprecating behavior over a stupid word is their own problem. They have every right to be offended and even have teh ability to assault me.  They don't have the ability or right to restrict me from saying it.



How "congress shall make no law... inringing... the freedom of speech"  gets turned into this shit I have no idea, but its definatly has nothing to do with reading.



This is the saving grace of conservatives and laws.  The decent ones can read and do.  (Scalia is the best example)

The liberals will tell you there is some case law on point and just ignore the damn law entirely.  Then denounce racism- which they actually do in court opinions so as to please the politically correct police or something, I don't know... the fact that a judge could somehow worry someone will misconstrue a ruling on the legality of something with the merits of the individual act forming the basis for the case is beyond me.  We've stepped into a nether world where laws mean nothing and judges feel the need to illustrate their opinions with their personal, irrelevant an improper, opinons on these matters.


Justice thomas is good in this area usually, but on black issues he is sometimes a liberal and wants to ban speech on the basis of "what he knows" and bullshit like that and not what the evidence in the case showed or what the law says.  For a black guy that's against racism, discrimination, and exceptions on the basis of race in law, I find that particularly disturbing.  (can only think of one case, a cross burning case, where this was true, but regardless... disapointing)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: Luddite]
    #9171904 - 11/02/08 10:54 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Luddite said:
I've heard plenty of black people use the word "nigger" in public.  Would they be arrested 




if black people said it, it's a term of endearment

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: johnm214]
    #9171932 - 11/02/08 11:03 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Yes, that's my whole point: these are unconstitutional laws.  oh yeah:  "congress shall make no law"

We live in a world now where you can be arrested for saying "nigger".  Fuck that.  That law pris mentioned is a restriction on free speech plain and simple. 





while I'd like to agree they use these terms 'the letter of
the law' and 'the spirit of the law', since the first
amendment states that congress shall make no laws abridging
free speech, and doesnt state specifically that the local
governments can pass these laws, it then is up to the states,
under article 1, section 1, paragraph 5 in the georgia
constitution it plainly states that that no law can be passed
restricting free speech but it also say every person will be
responsible for the abuse of his speech

what constitutes abuse and responsibility?

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9171992 - 11/02/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe that's when the terroristic(sp?) threatening comes into play? It's free speech until you say you are going to kill someone, then it's called threatening or even talking about harming someone. That's the way I would think they are implying it anyway. I dunno though.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9171996 - 11/02/08 11:23 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Or even "sexual abuse" simple words can get people fired or worse. Would these words not fall under freedom of speech?


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9172068 - 11/02/08 11:46 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pinkfloydms said:
Maybe that's when the terroristic(sp?) threatening comes into play? It's free speech until you say you are going to kill someone, then it's called threatening or even talking about harming someone. That's the way I would think they are implying it anyway. I dunno though.




there is a difference in 'I could just strangle him right
now' and 'I'm going to strangle him to death', one expressed
a desire to commit an act, the other could be construed as
such but doesnt actually state the will

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9172070 - 11/02/08 11:47 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pinkfloydms said:
Or even "sexual abuse" simple words can get people fired or worse. Would these words not fall under freedom of speech?




yes... you can say them but you are responsible for how you've used them

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9172211 - 11/02/08 12:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

To anyone who says this isn't a double standard because of Obama's race is a racist.  It doesn't matter what color he is, and anyone pointing to a hung nigger effigy and thinking it different than a hung cracker effigy is obviously seeing something I am not.  Free speech is legal in the whole of America, at least if you follow the constitution. 

Get over racial differences.  Affirmative racisim is just as bad as negative racisim, if you don't think so then you are lying to yourself.  Real equality rests with those who can look at history's fuckups and laugh at them.

Edited by xFrockx (11/02/08 12:26 PM)

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Offlinewildchild68
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: xFrockx]
    #9172233 - 11/02/08 12:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I'm saying it's not a double standard.

Perhaps you need to look over the thread and see where RedStorm accurately pointed out the differences in the two situations.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: wildchild68]
    #9172271 - 11/02/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Redstorm is right if it wasn't a state funded university.  We live in America, in America there is free speech, including at and especially at public places.

If it was a private university and they wanted it gone then fine, but an arrest SHOWS that this is a double standard.

Would they have been arrested for hanging an effigy of Bush?  I fucking doubt it.  When you hang a nigger people who are racists on both sides get their panties in a bunch.

BTW I plan to vote Obama, but let me emphasize the fact that I feel perfectly comfortable calling him a nigger.  It doesn't mean I hate him, it just means that I don't care.

Edited by xFrockx (11/02/08 12:40 PM)

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: xFrockx]
    #9172286 - 11/02/08 12:41 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

that's a good point. I didn't even think about the fact that it is a public school. I'm going to have to reevaluate my position on this now.

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Remember the Palin Halloween prop? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9172298 - 11/02/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

yeah man, its all just BS.

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