|
Anonymous #1
|
Got popped
#9163558 - 10/31/08 09:40 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
2 weeks ago I got a knock on the door, it was a early twenties looking girl that asked me if I had a computer or internet access and could download a driver for her because she couldn't access the internet without the software, I said she could go to Kinkos or a public library and use the computer there, then she stated that she didn't have a car, and then said sorry to bother you.
So, I said wait, I'll do it, come in, then I set up a guest account on my Windows OS, and I was kind of paranoid that this may be a ruse to try to steal something so I told her she could use my PC, and I sat on my couch, she said she just moved here from Michigan and asked a few questions about the area, she had a USB stick that she used, did what she did on the PC then said "that's it", and I walked her out and said if she needed anything to feel free to ask me. Then she left.
The next morning at about 10am I got a boom type knock that let's you know who's at the door, I went to the door and saw a cop with his left arm on his sidearm and he was half bent to see in through my window, and said to open the door, I said "why"?, he said "you need to open the fucking door now, if you go back into the house I'm going to kick the door in", I opened the door and said what the hell is this about, the officer said "I'm Sgt. ****** ******* of the ***** ***** sheriffs office, we received a tip that you are growing marijuana at this address, do you mind if I search your home"? I said no, then he said "then we'll get a warrant and you're making this hard on yourself, we know that you've purchased a hydroponic light, commonly used to grow marijuana, we know that you've purchased hydroponic chemicals, commonly used to grow marijuana, we know that you've purchased reflective mylar, commonly used to grow marijuana", (at that point I wanted to scream because the cop kept finishing his sentences with "commonly used to grow marijuana", which is complete bullshit). Then he said "and we know that you have literature on your computer that describes hydroponically growing marijuana, and various recipes for manufacturing illegal narcotics".
I almost had a heart attack at that point, I feel so stupid now, once again I refused to consent to a search, and that's when the Sgt. said that he smelled the "odor of live marijuana", what in the hell is that???? Does living marijuana smell different than dead marijuana?
He continued to use threats to coerce me to consent, and I wanted to give in, something inside me believed him when he said he'll take the stand in court and the sentencing will be worse, at which point I said, there'll be no sentencing, I do not grow marijuana, I don't even have any hydroponic equipment!
At that point one of the deputies asked if there was anyone inside the house, I said no, he said are you sure? I said I am absolutely sure there is no one inside my home, then he asked if it was okay for him to check and again I said "I refuse to consent to any search, no searches period"
They put me in the back of a cop car, and kept opening and closing the trunk, really annoying, I sat there for about 45 minutes, maybe an hour, then one of the cops came and put a piece of paper on the window, he said "you see what that is, it's a search warrant, then left.
The cops went into my house, spent about 10 minutes inside, then the Sgt. came pulled out of the back of the car and asked "where is the lower for the AR-15"? I said I don't have one, I can't have one, all I have is that mil-spec upper that is not considered a firearm, and some magazines with no receiver and no ammunition, he said there is a receiver attached, the "upper receiver" and I said no that is not considered a firearm, he said "what are you missing here, this is an upper RECEIVER and a RECEIVER is considered a firearm according to Florida law, you are done, smartass"
So, long story short, I was charged with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, they seized all my gun parts even though they are legal for me to possess, but didn't seize the casting that was in one of the boxes with the parts.
No marijuana or hydroponic equipment was found in my home, my lawyer basically doesn't know about firearms, and I told him what I know, but he still said that common sense prevails, but he will do what he can.
The state hasn't filed formal charges yet, so I'm still in the grey about what is really going on, I hope they will take the same stance as Federal law and conclude that an upper is not a receiver, it doesn't help my case that an upper is referred to as an upper receiver.
Oh well, I'll keep everyone updated as more information is known.
|
TacticalBongRip
Curious Observer



Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 527
|
|
woah dude, that sucks! I hope everything turns out alright for ya...keep us updated
|
Elementium
Friendly Neighborhood Lurker




Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 658
|
|
Good job sticking to your guns, at least. Definitely takes courage!
I wish you the best of luck in this matter, friend.
Good vibes your way.
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
Very good job man.
It might seem you won nothing, but you've won everything.
Had you consented the matter of whether they had probable cause would fly out the window and you'd be convicted.
Hope, maybe:
The fourth amendment requires particularity in the place and items to be seized. If they had the evidence they claimed then how did they get a particular warrant for guns?
Answer: They didn't.
So, the search may be illegal and you may be free.
Don't get your hopes up, I've looked at nothing.
Pretty much, the cops could have gotten another warrant. Was there time for them to do so upon the initial inspection and when they brought out the gun? Do you know? Can you look and see online or at the clerks office if any warrant was issued for a gun or similar?
If not you may be in the clear.
Again, don't get your hopes up, I'm just thinking out loud and may be wrong or you may have described things incorectly- who knows.
What state are you in? What appellate district? Look it up and post that here or email me and I'll check it out for ya on the warrants and such.
Edit: This presumes they were telling the truth and that the warrant was for drugs not for guns and that they didn't use the drugs as something they figured you knew you were innocent of so you'd open the door. But that doesn't explain the witness they sent in or the compuer stuff (though they'd guess anyways).
Did you see the warrant? Get a copy of it. Go online and find your case, or go to the clerks office and get the case file if it is unsealed (which it should be now that it is served) and tell use what it says, or at least PM me if you're concerned about monitoring.
Good luck. The cops are total fucking children aren't they? "you see what htis is? This is a warrant" What a dick head. They claim they are professionals, but professionals don't throw temper tantrums and act like out-of-control idiots high on their own authority.
You hurt nobody. Hopefully, since you shouldn't be a criminal, nothing will come of this. Good luck.
Edited by johnm214 (10/31/08 11:40 AM)
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
#9164224 - 10/31/08 12:20 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
If they had a valid warrant, then the gun can be admitted as evidence. John is mistaken in that fact. Unless the warrant only allowed them to look in a certain area of the home and they looked in other areas which were not mentioned in the warrant, I see no way out. Normally, the warrant will allow them to search all parts of the residence. They can come in looking for drugs and end up finding guns, illegal merchandise, stolen goods or whatever. They do not have to look only at drugs and ignore other things they may find.
I'm very curious if that girl did some sort of trick on you. I think we all wonder about that. If she placed a trojan horse or otherwise wired your computer to give info to the cops without your permission, and the warrant was based in whole or in part on info gained from that, you have an excellent chance to get the warrant denied and the evidence suppressed. I don't know about the gun laws specificly. I'd have to research that. I hope your lawyer has time to do some serious research for your own sake.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: If they had a valid warrant, then the gun can be admitted as evidence. John is mistaken in that fact. Unless the warrant only allowed them to look in a certain area of the home and they looked in other areas which were not mentioned in the warrant, I see no way out. Normally, the warrant will allow them to search all parts of the residence. They can come in looking for drugs and end up finding guns, illegal merchandise, stolen goods or whatever. They do not have to look only at drugs and ignore other things they may find.
Of course if they had a valid warrant the evidence may be admited- no disagreement.
I cited the basis for my contention and the sitautions in which I believe, without looking up any law as i stated previously, it would apply: the fourth amendment's particularity requirement as to items to be sezied and places to be searched and in a sitatuion where the warrant allowed a search of the house and land upon a parcel and the seizing of drug related items supported by teh affidavits and evidence.
Since I stated thusly previously, what is your disagreement and what is your authority for such? As I've stated I've yet to see how the particularity requirements are enforced as to the exclusionary rules, but I believe if there was no error on the part of the judge and no warrant, exemption, or consent allowed for the collection of non-listed items, then the evidence was seized illegaly and must be barred.
The only thing I could imagine is that the courts might have ruled such is within the inevitable discovery doctrine, that bunch of bullshit, but I don't know.... That wouldn't remove the challenge for the presumably bullshit warrant to begin with (internet sites, made up?, and a grow light) but it would allow the introduction fo the gun.
I really hope the inevitable discovery doctrine isn't applicable...
Anyways stonehenge, I cited my authority previously and again, what is yours for your contention?
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
#9164812 - 10/31/08 02:26 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
If the police are executing a valid warrant and see a gun or ammunition, and know the suspect is a convicted felon, they may seize the gun as evidence of a felony. If they didn't know all those things and just saw the gun, then they would have to go back with another warrant to get it. You are correct about that. However, even if the gun was no longer there when they went back, they can testify to what they saw. Since we don't know a lot of relevant facts here, it would be premature to say what is what.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
tak
geo's henchman




Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 3,776
Loc: nowhereland
|
|
That sucks man, atleast you were not growing anything with firearms i guess.
I wish you the best, and never trust females in Florida. The police have more of them working as narcs than you will ever believe.
Something similar happened to me in Palm Beach where there were some girls trying to party and I ended up getting arrested. I did nothing wrong, but they needed someone to bring in and that someone was me.
They got me with a couple bullshit charges, but not for what they wanted (drugs). Charges for the other stuff were never filed once they realized I had no one to snitch on. They didn't tell me though, I had to find out for myself. I have no prev's though.
I hope it works out for you man. I feel your pain.
-------------------- The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.
|
sketchydelux
overdue beeper bill



Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 558
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
|
Re: Got popped [Re: tak]
#9170655 - 11/02/08 12:24 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
a random chick that you dint know askin to use your interwabs should have been a red flag (how would she know ur online)
--------------------
|
Mephistophelian
Quasi Hob-Nobbery




Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 2,527
Loc: Camp Crystal Lake
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
|
That's the most bizzare thing I've ever heard of. Random girl knocking on a door to ask for internet access for a driver.
Best of luck man...great you stuck with your rights, stupid cops throwing authority.
|
Brainiac
Rogue Scientist



Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
Loc: 與您的女朋
|
|
Quote:
sketchydelux said: a random chick that you dint know askin to use your interwabs should have been a red flag (how would she know ur online)
Why didn't, he just slam the door closed..
--------------------
Fair is Fair
|
tak
geo's henchman




Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 3,776
Loc: nowhereland
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Brainiac]
#9171809 - 11/02/08 10:25 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Most people have internet access. Especially if he is doing nothing illegal, I don't see a reason to be a dickhead to your neighbors.
But now I know...
-------------------- The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
|
> If they had a valid warrant, then the gun can be admitted as evidence.
Even if the warrant was valid (and I assume it was), it depends upon the terms of the warrant and where they searched. It would have been better to have had an attorney present during the search to ensure that the search was legal, and to try and delay or narrow the search before it commenced. It will really be up to the judge at the evidentiary hearing to decide. If the judge decides nay, then there is no case.
> The state hasn't filed formal charges yet, so I'm still in the grey about what is really going on
So you have not been arraigned? They arrested you and then let you go without filing charges? I'm confused here.
> he said "what are you missing here, this is an upper RECEIVER and a RECEIVER is considered a firearm according to Florida law, you are done, smartass"
A name does not define what something is. With respect to firearms, the receiver (or body or frame) is the part of the weapon that contains the operating parts. Under federal law, the lower receiver on the AR-15 is the "firearm" while the upper receiver is NOT.
From Florida law http://www.gunlaws.com/links/linksfl.htm, Section 790.001(6):
Quote:
"Firearm" means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, or is designed to, or may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term "firearm" shall not include an antique firearm.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
#9176888 - 11/03/08 10:39 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Original poster, what is going on here? Did you want people to try and figure out what the relevant law is in regards to the seizures?
If so you're going to need to provide the text of the warrant, specifically list what the items to be seized and searched for were.
Did they seize items not listed on the warrant? Did they have information supporting the probable cause that such items were at such location, if the wrrant did allow the seizure?
We can look up law on this topic but not without knowing what the warrant provided for and what the warrant was premised upon (less important) as well as where you are (united states? state? Appellate jurisdiction?)
|
Chemy
Jesus is Lord
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Got popped *DELETED* [Re: johnm214]
#9177100 - 11/03/08 11:29 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
OP, hopefully everything will work out and Florida will follow suit with Federal law in your case.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
Edited by Chemy (11/03/08 12:05 PM)
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
Sorry that happened man. If you want to remain anonomous someone like Seuss or a moderator , if they are able, could probably change you to be anonomous.
Anyways fi you can I'd go down and find the search warrnat at the clerk's office. In some areas they don't file the search warrant under the defendant's name, but rather under a miscelaneous docket entry.
The clerk should be able to help you out.
Good luck. I may look up and see how things are if they seize an item not listed in the warrant and see if the enevitable discovery rule applies or not.
If I had any I'd donate some money to get you a good attorney. You don't deserve this, sorry it happened.
Another victimless crime.
BTW, you can post an anonomous reply if you go to the regular and not quick reply screen. I just tried and it worked. I removed your name from the reply to field if you want to PM seuss and get your name removed for privacy issues.
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Chemy]
#9177178 - 11/03/08 11:46 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Seuss wrote:
"Even if the warrant was valid (and I assume it was), it depends upon the terms of the warrant and where they searched. It would have been better to have had an attorney present during the search to ensure that the search was legal, and to try and delay or narrow the search before it commenced. It will really be up to the judge at the evidentiary hearing to decide. If the judge decides nay, then there is no case."
I agree that if the judge throws out all the evidence, there is no case. Having an attorney present during the search would be nice but they are under no obligation to tell you they are doing a search and as a matter of usual practice, will not tell the subject. I don't know why, maybe someone would toss out incriminating evidence if they knew it was coming?
The only way I can see the gun not being admitted would be if the cops had no idea he was a felon at the time. But then why would they grab it? They must have known and in which case, they knew the gun was evidence of a crime and they could seize it. They are not limited to taking only things mentioned in the warrant. If they saw drugs, for example, they could seize them.
John, I agree it's frustrating when you can't get info you asked for but they want help with their case.
The police make the original accusation but it means nothing unless the DA files formal charges. In this case, the law says within 30 days. I believe there is a provision for speedy trial but you have to ask for it.
I doubt the OP knows at this time if the girl was involved or not. That should come out at discovery. The OP needs to find a good lawyer and pronto.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
Anonymous #1
|
Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
#9177250 - 11/03/08 12:02 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
So you have not been arraigned? They arrested you and then let you go without filing charges? I'm confused here.So you have not been arraigned? They arrested you and then let you go without filing charges? I'm confused here.
I was arrested, transported to jail, issued a bond at booking, then saw the magistrate and pre-trial release denied, bond was the same as the booking officer stated, I spent ~3 days in jail then bonded out through a bondsman.
Florida CrimRules: 3.134 Time to file formal charges:
Quote:
The state shall file formal charges on defendants in custody by information or indictment within 30 days of the date of arrest.
I am not in custody so the time limits of 3.134 do not apply.
Quote:
A name does not define what something is. With respect to firearms, the receiver (or body or frame) is the part of the weapon that contains the operating parts. Under federal law, the lower receiver on the AR-15 is the "firearm" while the upper receiver is NOT.
The AR-15 upper houses operating parts, namely the bolt, firing pin and extractor/ejector.
What are defined as operating parts? Florida doesn't say.
I have researched and can't find anything about split receivers in Florida, and Florida seems to be an A-hole about firearms (read Bostic v. State [Florida]) Where Bostic was told (in a certified letter) by ATF and FDLE firearms experts that a muzzleloading rifle is not considered a firearm and Bostic (a convicted felon) could legally possess a muzzleloading rifle for hunting, Bostic was arrested and convicted of possession of a firearm by convicted felon, conviction was upheld by the appellate court and the Florida supreme court dispite having certified letters from the ATF and FDLE and a local sheriff department that the rifle was not considered a firearm.
I have searched my court clerk website and can't find my case listed yet, I am going to have a stroke if I keep stressing about this and I don't know what's happening yet.
Bostic v. State, Case No. 5D03-3270 , COURT OF APPEAL OF FLORIDA, FIFTH DISTRICT, May 13, 2005, Opinion Filed
Quote:
OVERVIEW: Because a rifle defendant possessed was not an "antique firearm," as defined in Fla. Stat. ch. 790.001(1), as it had a fiber optic sight and, thus, not a "replica" of a firearm manufactured in or before 1918, a charge under Fla. Stat. ch. 790.23(1)(a) was properly upheld. Further, the term "replica" was not unconstitutionally void for vagueness.
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
So what definition applies to your charge? Do you know what the charge is?
Is seuss's post the correct definition relevant to any charge you may or are facing
790.001(6)
?
If I can figure out what the relevant definition is I can do a lexis search and hopefully find some language clarifying the definition as applied to your case.
I would think the definition seuss provided excludes you as written and per the rule of lenity you would certianly be excluded, but florida and the criminal courts are dicks. If that is the relevant section hopefully you don't meet the definition, but I'll look if you can tell me what the relevant statutory definition is.
This whole thing is stupid.
|
TacticalBongRip
Curious Observer



Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 527
|
|
OP, you've probably already seen this but it seems like a good piece of info in your support. From wikipedia:
"In strictly legal terms, in the United States the receiver is the actual firearm itself, and as such it is the controlled part (without which operating is impossible). Generally, the law views the receiver as that part of a firearm housing that has the serial number upon it. Thus, in the case that a firearm has multiple receivers (such as the AR-15, which has an upper and lower receiver) the legally controlled one is the one that is serialized (the lower, in the AR-15's case)." (reference)
So, does your upper receiver have the serial number on it?
Also, just from reading the case you posted about the antique weapon, it does seem like the courts were being total arse's but, replica or not the courts probably looked at the replica as a functional firearm. Additionally, it seems like that is something of a different issue related to your case and I wouldn't worry any extra because of the outcome of it.
Just remember... this too will pass. Hope all turns out well for you man. good vibes goin out to ya
|
demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
|
Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
#9177988 - 11/03/08 02:52 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
john, was he not illegally detained? they put him in the cop car for close to an hour while they waited to receive a search warrant. how does that work?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Got popped [Re: demiu5]
#9178101 - 11/03/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Given that they recieved a warrant, probably legal.
These actions routinely are suggested as an alternative in cases where a warantless search was dissalowed with no real serious consideration given to their legality.
That said, if they got a valid warrant then it seems pretty clear they had probable cause that a crime was commited or that evidence would be found of one (given the situation and that it wasn't simply a search for evidence of a third party crime but rather a search, we think, for evidence the O.P. commited a crime.
The issue is did the warrant allow for the seizing of firearms, and if it didn't, what remedy is available? I'll probably check at some point if we can figure out what the warrant actually said and what the supporting evidence was (the former more important and the later only important if the warrant may be materially invalid).
As to the other guy, considering he's likely facing state charges, we'd hope, the USC def. is not really relevant, unless the feds would prosecute if the states couldn't.
So we're wondering what the state definition is, not the "US" definitionl.
|
Anonymous #1
|
Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
#9178226 - 11/03/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I can't fight the detention because the cops said they had a right to detain/arrest me because of a statute even I didn't know about:
Quote:
775.13 Registration of convicted felons, exemptions; penalties.--
(1) As used in this section, the term "convicted" means, with respect to a person's felony offense, a determination of guilt which is the result of a trial or the entry of a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld.
(2) Any person who has been convicted of a felony in any court of this state shall, within 48 hours after entering any county in this state, register with the sheriff of said county, be fingerprinted and photographed, and list the crime for which convicted, place of conviction, sentence imposed, if any, name, aliases, if any, address, and occupation. If the felony conviction is for an offense that was found, pursuant to s. 874.04, to have been committed for the purpose of benefiting, promoting, or furthering the interests of a criminal gang, the registrant shall identify himself or herself as such an offender. The Department of Law Enforcement, in consultation with appropriate local law enforcement agencies, may develop standardized practices for the inclusion of gang affiliation at the time of offender registration.
Quote:
(5) The failure of any such convicted felon to comply with this section:
(a) With regard to any felon not listed in paragraph (b), constitutes a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
No I wasn't registered because I thought only POS offenders had to register in Florida.
|
TheGiantGnome13
Shitdafuck



Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 97
Loc: florida
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
|
|
so what was the point of telling us about the girl using the computer it had no role in this story.
|
Anonymous #1
|
|
In my paranoia I imagine the pendrive was loaded with a modified version of EnCase or a file retriever program to strip my hard drive and image my physical memory so they could decode any whole drive encryption if I had one (which I did not).
I keep telling myself I'm just being paranoid and they would only do such a thing for big time criminal, and it could likely have just been a coincindence.
I didn't have any firewall before this happened, so if they could do some cloak-and-dagger stuff like a pendrive scheme they could have hacked into my system from knowing my IP, would have been easier, maybe
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
|
> so what was the point of telling us about the girl using the computer it had no role in this story.
He suspects that she searched his computer and used the info obtained to convince a judge to issue the search warrant, I assume.
I suspect this will boil down to one of two things...
1) the case will be resolved based upon another like case in which the definition of "receiver" has been established. If such case exists, your will follow the same.
2) the case will be resolved by expert witness that testifies that according to federal guidelines the serialized section of a dual receiver firearm is the the actual receiver while the non-serialized section is simply a part. This is well established at the federal level, and without a previous case at the state level, one would hope that this is the direction the judge goes, tossing out the case before going to trial.
Depending upon the actual wording of the warrant, where they searched, and what they seized, it might be dropped sooner. It all depends upon how narrow the search warrant was and if they violated it or not. Again, something that might work against them. That they didn't find drugs is a huge plus on your side.
Use your fear and worries to motivate you to help your lawyer. Start digging to try and find cases that are like yours that will help set a precedence in your favor. I would start with the search warrant and with any cases that define receiver on a dual receiver firearm.
Stay clean and don't give in to the temptation of alcohol as an escape. The absolute worse thing you can do is get in trouble for something else. Focus, don't panic! The burden is on them, and you have given them as little as possible so far. From the cheap seats here, unless a previous case screws you, I think you have a pretty good chance with expert testimony defining the upper as an unserialized part rather than a frame/reciever.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
Liquidkick
H2O
Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 2,635
|
|
what in the world!
They thought you were growing MJ even though you weren't...
WOW.
Someone hates you.
Good thing i do not let anyone use my computer.
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
#9178771 - 11/03/08 05:30 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
If the part found can be shown not to fit the definition of a firearm, that would be the best avenue of defense, I would think. Don't worry about what the warrant said they were looking for. There have been many cases in which the cops found things not envisioned by the warrant and it stood up.
I'm still waiting for the OP to say he got a good lawyer. He can use tips gained on this forum to help the lawyer but he needs the lawyer. Don't try to do it yourself.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
|
> I'm still waiting for the OP to say he got a good lawyer.
He did say he had a lawyer, but I don't know about good.
> He can use tips gained on this forum to help the lawyer but he needs the lawyer. Don't try to do it yourself.
Absolutely. I thought I was clear in this respect when I said, "Use your fear and worries to motivate you to help your lawyer." I never meant to imply, even remotely, to do it yourself. Even lawyers don't defend themselves, for good reason.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
Seems more likely than not the two are related.
How many times has an unknown person ever enetered your house only on a story that they needed something?
Never happened to me- ever.
How long was she at your computer?
They could have taken your cache or history.
I don't know if that is legal, really, though. While they don't have to tell you they are cops, I would think they would have to get permission to copy info.
you let her use the comp to download information from the internet, right? not to take stuff off your computer and certainly not to take you history. While they would argue that by letting her use your computer you let her access such information and if she can access it she can record it (like a telephone conversation) I don't think this holds water. When you let someone use your computer it is not accepted by society and standard courtesy/understanding that that person gets to take things from your computer. And certainly this is not neccesary and implicit to your grant of authority to her.
They will argue that by letting her take stuff from your computer, the information cached from the download upon your computer (I believe this is how it works) that you let her take other informaiton, but I think this is false. You let her download from the internet, right? Not download from your computer, even if unbenownst to you such is implicit in downloading from the computer. And you certainly didn't grant authority to take your history or cache.
Anyways, can you tell us what the definition of firearm is that is relevant? Looking up what hte upper receiver is on an ar-15 I really can't imagine that is a firearm under any definition. Its just a fucking tube right? like a metal tube.
Obviously the girl will only be relevant in the criminal matter if they used that to justify the search warrant (the computer part).
Without incriminating yourself, was there a smell of marijuana in the house? Did they find any? I would hope not. This would seem to indicate the girl was lieing and hopefully, with a sane judge, thusly conclude.
Could you share how they suspected you? Any idea what set them off? What charges do you suspect? not registering, possesion of firearm, what else?
I'll check out the warrant deals latter, like I said, but let us know what and if you get the search warrant. I would think they'd have to serve it upon you, but like many things the cops do they will break the law when it suits them. And like many things the judges do, they will ignore the cops breaking the law when it suits them (always).
Florida, I'm increasingly convinced, is completely insane when it comes to criminal policy. When will people wake up and realize the cops are not our friends and giving the criminal justice empire more power is not the way to go? They are allready well situated to deal with real crime with sufficient laws and wide sentencing ranges to deter and punish real criminals. More bullshit is not needed. Hopefully the fuckers that vote will stop voting for "tough on crime" politicians and judges that don't fucking think.
|
Anonymous #1
|
Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
#9181293 - 11/04/08 06:45 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
johnm214 said: How long was she at your computer?
About 15 minutes, I had dial-up internet at the time and my downloads never exceeded 5kb/s, once I think it shot up to 7.8kb/s
Quote:
johnm214 said:
They could have taken your cache or history.
I don't know if that is legal, really, though. While they don't have to tell you they are cops, I would think they would have to get permission to copy info.
I wonder if this or similar tactic is legal under sneek-and-peek or quick-peek searches, or delayed notification search warrant?
Quote:
johnm214 said:
you let her use the comp to download information from the internet, right? not to take stuff off your computer and certainly not to take you history. While they would argue that by letting her use your computer you let her access such information and if she can access it she can record it (like a telephone conversation) I don't think this holds water. When you let someone use your computer it is not accepted by society and standard courtesy/understanding that that person gets to take things from your computer. And certainly this is not neccesary and implicit to your grant of authority to her.
She only asked if she could download software for internet access, I remember having a similar issue after reinstalling my OEM Windows XP and having to download drivers for the entire system before it would work correctly.
Quote:
johnm214 said: They will argue that by letting her take stuff from your computer, the information cached from the download upon your computer (I believe this is how it works) that you let her take other informaiton, but I think this is false. You let her download from the internet, right? Not download from your computer, even if unbenownst to you such is implicit in downloading from the computer. And you certainly didn't grant authority to take your history or cache.
This issue was only implied by her, that she asked to download software from the internet, no issue about obtaining information was discussed.
Quote:
johnm214 said: Anyways, can you tell us what the definition of firearm is that is relevant? Looking up what hte upper receiver is on an ar-15 I really can't imagine that is a firearm under any definition. Its just a fucking tube right? like a metal tube.
The AR-15 upper receiver houses the "bolt carrier group" basically the bolt, charging handle, forward assist, firing pin and ejector.
The definition of receiver in Florida statutes is basically "receiver", no other information or definition is included anywhere at all, I have even checked all Florida standard jury instructions and no other information about receivers is there either. There is no caselaw, statutes, definitions in statutes, jury instructions, I can find nothing.
Quote:
johnm214 said: Without incriminating yourself, was there a smell of marijuana in the house? Did they find any? I would hope not. This would seem to indicate the girl was lieing and hopefully, with a sane judge, thusly conclude.
Could you share how they suspected you? Any idea what set them off? What charges do you suspect? not registering, possesion of firearm, what else?
I will give the best timeline I can recall about this:
December/2007-March/2008 ordered hydroponic equipment online and paid for such through cash or M/O through snail-mail.
During this time and the following months I let the equipment sit and conducted intense counter-surveillance of pirates that may have wanted to commandeer my ship and provisions including black tea that is highly regarded by the British.
May/2008 conducted a test of the equipment and noticed a vulnerability and needed to correct, also noticed that white paint was not reflective enough.
May/2008 ordered air cooled reflector, mylar and fan/carbon filter combination and was impatient at this point and paid with credit card through online popular payment site.
May/2008 went to internet cafe and used their internet to order milk thistle seeds from Hungary and have them shipped to unspecified location, that if grown hydroponically would yield increased flavanoids for medicinal use.
June/July-2008 abandoned the idea after a couple irrelevant issue and the equipment was destroyed*.
August/September-2008 noticed from reviewing camera recording noticed that a white truck had pulled up to my trashcan and a guy stepped out of the truck, removed the contents of the trashcan and placed into the bed of the truck and then left. I mentioned this in the anonymous forum some time ago.
October/2008 warrant served, and a now in retrospect suspicious girl asked to use my computer, until I see some information I don't know for sure about her. She was nice though.
I remember now a virus alert there was something about a not-a-virus.xxxx.xxxx.xxx I can't remember anything except the not a virus part from a full system scan performed that night (it was set to scan everyday at 2am) I figure it was a hoax worm or something if the K7 reports it as not-a-virus, it can't be a trojan or anything
I can't get to that virus log since I have wiped my hard drive with a gutman 35 round twister, a DoD 7 round ISAAC and then another gutman 35 round twister, then a gutman 35 round ISAAC.
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
|
"August/September-2008 noticed from reviewing camera recording noticed that a white truck had pulled up to my trashcan and a guy stepped out of the truck, removed the contents of the trashcan and placed into the bed of the truck and then left. I mentioned this in the anonymous forum some time ago."
This is what I'm talking about in the "taking out the trash" thread. Garbage surveillence is the most common form since it's cheap and does not require a warrant or permission from a court. Read that thread for tips on how to defeat this tactic.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
Anonymous #1
|
|
Update:
001 | NO INFO | FXXD79023 | POSS F/ARM, WEP DELINQ/CONV FEL | 10/XX/2008 | XX SO
Still no info, the status area usually says OPEN or CLOS here it says NO INFO, in case anyone is wondering the FXXD thing is the statute not the case number. I've never heard of the state taking this long to file info, I am becoming optimistic:)
|
Vermonster420
I gotta have more cowbell !



Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 662
Loc: Standin' On the Moon
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
|
|
One of the lessons to be learned here is:TRUST YOU INTUITION! You had bad vibes from that chick coming into your house. You should have said NO or got her ID at least. Her story was BS and you got set up and knocked down. You may be ok in the end but the lesson remains...Keep strangers out of your home and lock the doors. Set marker traps like a matchstick in the doorjamb. If disrupted, ditch your contraband ASA(F)P!! Then when the cop serves the warrent, you can let him in and video tape him going thru your haouse so he doesn't PLANT SHIT!~
Then file a greivance with his department for his behavior and conduct.
-------------------- To thine own self be true. That which does not kill me makes me stronger. Ass...it's the NEW pussy! "Gungah-DeGungah"
|
acid_kiss
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 97
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
|
Re: Got popped [Re: demiu5]
#9199754 - 11/07/08 12:44 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
That sucks man. I don't think with what they knew they could have got a search warrant or kicked your door in or they would have done it, not given you a chance to open it. Buying those things and having information is not illegal. Once the cop got you to open the door he knows he can say he smells weed even if he doesn't because that gives him a right to search now. He knows you have it, so he'll say anything to get in your house and smell or see it.
If a cop comes to your door never answer it, you don't have too. Tell them they can call you on your cell phone if its an emergency or kick your door in if they have a warrant. Don't admit anything on the phone. Makes you look guilty as hell, but if you open the door you have a 100% percent chance of getting busted. Not opening the door gives you some time before they come up with some BS to finally get a warrant.
I got this from that barry coopers never get busted again. You can find it on mininova.com Good video to watch.
|
Anonymous #1
|
|
I am in complete shock.
This poorly written and uninformative affidavit does not warrant a search at all. And the nod thing never happened, we only talked about weed not a gun, I know enough god damn law to know not to say or "motion" any god damn thing. LIARS............................................
---------------------------------------------------------
This agency was contacted by an anonymous complainant to advise that [redacted] at [redacted], is a convicted felon and possesses an AR-15 rifle usually located in his bedroom closet at target residence.
Your affiant performed a NCIC check of [redacted] and confirmed that target has been convicted in a Florida court of trafficking in cocaine and therefore is prohibited by Florida law from possessing firearms and ammunition.
On Monday, October XX, 2008 1030 HRS your affiant, in the company of SIU [redacted] and DET [redacted], initiated a casual encounter with [redacted] at target residence. During said encounter, your affiant asked target if he possesses any firearms or ammunition, to this he nodded, indicating "yes".
Your affiant has in excess of 10 years police experience. The above facts indicate the presence of a firearm at target residence.
-----------------------------------------------
Things to be searched and searched for says residence located at xxxxxxxxxxx and to look for firearms and ammunition.
The form marked on top RETURN says an AR-15 was seized.
-----------------------------------------------
So now the question begs itself who is the fucking snitch?
Sorry, I didn't type up the forms but I don't think anything relevant is there.
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
|
Be sure you check the dates and times on everything. Something here doesn't add up... it almost sounds like they changed what they requested after the fact. If so, there should be court records that show such. I would laugh my ass off if you were able to nail a cop for perjury or fraud.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
JamesChappy
Noob



Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
#9308883 - 11/25/08 03:03 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Holy shit dude, it sounds like you'd have to face a jury as a convicted felon against a 10 year veteran cop. F U C K.
You should have a copy of the search warrant. If not, request it. Then post it while redacting all private info. The warrant should clear up a lot of questions and could possibly poke a lot of holes into the prosecution's arguments.
You should be able to depose the police officers involved and I'd definitely ask questions regarding when this anonymous informant did his/her informing.
During trial I'd ask why the warrant was for drugs when the informant was talking about guns.
I'd also question the validity of a warrant. Just because a judge issues a warrant doesn't mean it will hold up later in court. Last time I checked, buying hydroponic equipment didn't constitute probable cause for a warrant. Now if that girl really DID find something on your computer than they might have probable cause. Find out if that girl really was with the police or not.
WHO would tell the police you had a gun? Think about it. You need to be SURE that the police are lying about that. Ex-girlfriends/wives, people you owe money to, a mom who's got a fucked up sense of law and order... who would tell the police that? Is there any way the girl could have spotted the receiver?
From what I've read so far, I think you MIGHT have a case if you get a DAMN good lawyer. And with these kinds of charges you NEED to get a damn good lawyer. I really would like to see the information on the Warrant. I'm pretty pissed off at how poorly the cops handled the whole thing. They acted like they had a vendetta against you. Little things too, like actually serving you with the warrant papers, instead of just flashing them at you through a car window... Talking to you in a civil manner instead of yelling and barking orders at you...
If this damn war on drugs and civil rights isn't over soon, people are going to start exercising their rights with firearms instead of lawyers. Lets hope Obama's "Change" means a new look at drug enforcement.
|
JamesChappy
Noob



Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
#9308889 - 11/25/08 03:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Seuss said: Be sure you check the dates and times on everything. Something here doesn't add up... it almost sounds like they changed what they requested after the fact. If so, there should be court records that show such. I would laugh my ass off if you were able to nail a cop for perjury or fraud.
Dear God I would love to see that. There is nothing that makes me happier than watching a crooked cop go to jail. Of course the district attorney would probably decline to prosecute the cop... chances are the cop wouldn't even get disciplined, much less fired.
|
Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
|
|
That's fucked up. I hope it works out for you, though.
|
Ritual
Spore Collecter

Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 249
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
|
|
An upper receiver is not considered a firearm.
Having firearm parts in absence of a lower receiver does not constitute a firearm or firearms possession.
The police officer was wrong to make the assumption that having an upper receiver constituted firearms possession.
Hope that helps.
That is also false arrest. I beleive officers are held to the standard of knowing the law. Ideally they get screwed over for bringing turmoil into peoples lives for bullshit like this.
So good luck.
Edited by Ritual (05/08/09 05:59 AM)
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Ritual]
#10306849 - 05/08/09 06:39 AM (15 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
> An upper receiver is not considered a firearm.
By federal law... state law may vary.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Ritual]
#10306898 - 05/08/09 07:07 AM (15 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ritual said:
That is also false arrest. I beleive officers are held to the standard of knowing the law. Ideally they get screwed over for bringing turmoil into peoples lives for bullshit like this.
So good luck.
lol,. yeah right on both counts.
Cops are ignorant.
They have their little cop booklets around here to look up the law, and they understand little of it so far as i can see, by and large.
They are not supposed to know the law and they don't have to.
To win a lawsuit you'd have to show that their conduct was so ridiculous that no reasonable police officers in their shoes would think they weren't violating someone's constitutional rights. This means that they can go through their entire career without knowing the law unless they violate someone's constitutional rights in the process and such can be proven.
Even if they arrest you for being dressed poorly, when you sue (or move to surpress) suddenly it becomes your overall appearance and demeaner and the history of the area in which you are in (according to the officer) and no wrongdoing is found for the terry stop or investigative arrest.
Their is almost no limit on officer's authority to break the law with arrest or search that you can actually weild against them outside of not being convicted. This means if the dept. doesn't care (they go after young folks and guys that don't have political clout, so nobody cares) and you are innocent, can't do shit.
|
Ritual
Spore Collecter


Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 249
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
|
|
Here is the Florida Statute defining "firearm".
(6) "Firearm" means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term "firearm" does not include an antique firearm unless the antique firearm is used in the commission of a crime.
Weirdly written and I notice its worded the same as R.I. statute.
I am almost positive you can buy an upper receiver and NOT have to go through an FFL. Which would mean that upper receivers are NOT considered firearms. The wording does make it seem like they are though.
Going to do more research on this one out of curiosity.
Edited by Ritual (05/08/09 08:02 AM)
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Ritual]
#10307564 - 05/08/09 10:50 AM (15 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
> Here is the Florida Statute defining "firearm".
Yep... if you look back a few pages, you will see where I quoted it as well. I also said that you could probably argue it in court, as I could not find any related cases, but it would be costly and no guarantee of winning.
The cops and the DA are going to claim that a any thing called a receiver is obviously a receiver (as the law was not specific) while any firearm expert is going to claim that an upper receiver is just a name and does not fit the definition of a receiver when used to define a firearm.
Given the general bias against assault rifles, and the ambiguity of the law, the state would probably side with the cops/DA and claim that anything called a receiver is considered a receiver under state law regardless of the generally accepted definition.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
JohnnyConverse
Stranger

Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 268
|
|
OP, you need to have someone VERY knowledgeable look at your PC - the assumption seems to be that the girl looked around your house and gave the cops PC but it's also possible she bugged your computer somehow with software on her thumbdrive. It's a little paranoid, and it's probably not the case, but if you catch them at it, it might be something you can take to your lawyer. The reason I suspect this in your case is they were suspect of a bunch of shit you didn't have, but evidently talk about online, right?
Next time talk to them through the door and call your lawyer while or before you tt them.
-------------------- I wasn't an activist until I got put in jail. I sat there in jail seeing what was really going on in America and something changed. Now when people say, "Tommy what was jail like?" I say "You'll see" -- Tommy Chong
|
fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
#10308604 - 05/08/09 03:02 PM (15 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Sound to me like it IS a firearm. The OP said it has a bolt and firing pin in it. That's exactly what a gun is.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if you have the bolt and a firing pin then you can shove a shell into it and make the firing pin shoot and then you've just fired a round.
It sounds like it might be a firearm to me.
Regardless of what the feds say I don't think it would be all that hard to claim that the upper basically amounts to a fancy zip gun, which would be illegal. They can also play plenty of videos and show manufacturers that claim that the upper can be easily converted to a functional firearm.
Quote:
If the part found can be shown not to fit the definition of a firearm, that would be the best avenue of defense, I would think. Don't worry about what the warrant said they were looking for.
Stonehenge, that's not how you defend someone. You have to defend at every point in the case, not just the ones you think are best. This isn't an either/or situation so it would be very foolish not to try and suppress the evidence.
To the OP... What that girl did was likely use switchblade or some other common USB hack tool on you. Basically you plug in the thumbdrive and it autostarts a program that silently rapes your computer for all the info it can get. It's in common use and can be customized in a lot of ways, but right out of the box it would gather plenty of the info that you suspect they stole from you.
-FF
|
Ritual
Spore Collecter


Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 249
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
|
|
I just contacted someone in Florida and an upper receiver is NOT considered a firearm.
The guy is being falsely charged.
He will win in court.
Hope that helps and that IS A DEFINATE ANSWER.
|
fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Ritual]
#10308951 - 05/08/09 04:13 PM (15 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
(6) "Firearm" means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
I don't see how the upper doesn't fit this statute. A pipe and a nail (a zip gun) fit the statute so I don't see how a rifle barrel, bolt mechanism, and a firing pin wouldn't.
> Hope that helps and that IS A DEFINATE ANSWER.
If you have some case law to prove how it is interpreted then please post it. If there is no case law then the court will decide, and I don't see how they can conclude that it's NOT a firearm.
All they have to do is shove a bullet into it at a firing range then trip the firing pin. That would prove pretty conclusivly that it IS a firearm. And I don't see why they wouldn't do this if they wanted to.
Also the definition might vary based on the circumstances. They could have an entirely different interpretation depending on wheather it applies to selling, possessing, or possessing by a felon.
It's also not the best case. In Florida you're going to get a bunch of old folks on the jury. They aren't going to like hearing that a felon has a bunch of gun parts that potentially could fire a bullet. They are going to think he was planning to make it into a weapon and use it to commit more felonies. They aren't going to like that and may just end up convicting him regardless of what the law actually is.
BTW I don't like the anything = firearm laws anyways, I'm just giving my opinion of what will probably happen.
-FF
|
Eightball
whore consumer




Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 3,013
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
|
|
Anonymous, I'm not gonna read through all these pages but I know for 100% fact that an ar15 upper receiver is NOT considered a firearm. Its a federal definition so it doesn't vary state by state. Anyways, tell the pigs to fuck off and demand your property back. You also have grounds for a counter suit for illegal seizure of property. Feel free to PM me or go on IRC and msg me (nick is eightba|| on irc)
Good luck man.
-------------------- If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away. But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels Freeing you from the earth.
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
|
> Its a federal definition so it doesn't vary state by state.
Uh, what? The federal definition defines the minimum. A state can define it to be anything it wants. If a state decides to define it as a flower, then it is a flower in that state.
This is a very old post that has been dug out of the archives. My understanding is that the OP has already made a plea. It has also been many months since the OP has posted.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
Eightball
whore consumer




Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 3,013
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
|
Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
#10309272 - 05/08/09 05:27 PM (15 years, 14 days ago) |
|
|
there is no state where an upper receiver is a firearm. You would need a FFL/background check to buy an upper if there was. And there isn't. States can't redefine federal laws.
-------------------- If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away. But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels Freeing you from the earth.
|
riosricky
Stranger


Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 255
Loc: Nor Cal ^
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
|
|
if you ever see that girl again follow her to her house and key the shi out of her car.
--------------------
|
NineInchNails
Stranger

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,190
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
|
|
My state has the same gun laws as Florida. An upper can be mailed to your house ... I've done it! It's no big deal … that cop was just ignorant. It’s NOT a cop’s job to know the gun laws believe it or not. I’ve seen this time and time again. I know someone who was actually detained because some dumb pig said that his weapon had a suppressor/silencer. Dumbass didn’t know what he was looking at.
The equipment you allegedly purchased could be for aquarium use, typical plant use, or both. Any law against growing plants? It doesn’t matter what you were going to use it for because they SHOULD have to prove your intent. My grandma grows all kinds of plants ... does she need a visit from a pissed off pig?
Get a competent lawyer.
This is just ridiculous, but I suppose that's just how it is these days ... guilty until proven innocent.
|
79towncar
Stranger
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 310
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
|
|
If you go to trial make sure your defense hires an "expert" to combat the law. Find a gunsmith and have him testify that an upper receiver in itself is not a firearm. Also have him testify that an upper receiver cannot fire a projectile alone thus makes it just a hunk of metal.. Also I would find a different term to use in court than "receiver" maybe "upper portion" or something along them lines. Talk to your attorney.. Keep us all posted, goodluck.
|
|