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OfflineRitual
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Registered: 05/05/09
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Re: Got popped [Re: Le_Canard]
    #10306782 - 05/08/09 05:54 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

An upper receiver is not considered a firearm.

Having firearm parts in absence of a lower receiver does not constitute a firearm or firearms possession.

The police officer was wrong to make the assumption that having an upper receiver constituted firearms possession.

Hope that helps.

That is also false arrest.  I beleive officers are held to the standard of knowing the law.  Ideally they get screwed over for bringing turmoil into peoples lives for bullshit like this.

So good luck.

Edited by Ritual (05/08/09 05:59 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Got popped [Re: Ritual]
    #10306849 - 05/08/09 06:39 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

> An upper receiver is not considered a firearm.

By federal law... state law may vary.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Got popped [Re: Ritual]
    #10306898 - 05/08/09 07:07 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Ritual said:


That is also false arrest.  I beleive officers are held to the standard of knowing the law.  Ideally they get screwed over for bringing turmoil into peoples lives for bullshit like this.

So good luck.





lol,. yeah right on both counts.


Cops are ignorant.


They have their little cop booklets around here to look up the law, and they understand little of it so far as i can see, by and large.


They are not supposed to know the law and they don't have to.


To win a lawsuit you'd have to show that their conduct was so ridiculous that no reasonable police officers in their shoes would think they weren't violating someone's constitutional rights.  This means that they can go through their entire career without knowing the law unless they violate someone's constitutional rights in the process and such can be proven.


Even if they arrest you for being dressed poorly, when you sue (or move to surpress) suddenly it becomes your overall appearance and demeaner and the history of the area in which you are in (according to the officer) and no wrongdoing is found for the terry stop or investigative arrest.


Their is almost no limit on officer's authority to break the law with arrest or search that you can actually weild against them outside of not being convicted.  This means if the dept. doesn't care (they go after young folks and guys that don't have political clout, so nobody cares) and you are innocent, can't do shit.

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OfflineRitual
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Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
    #10307043 - 05/08/09 07:58 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Here is the Florida Statute defining "firearm".

(6)  "Firearm" means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term "firearm" does not include an antique firearm unless the antique firearm is used in the commission of a crime.

Weirdly written and I notice its worded the same as R.I. statute.

I am almost positive you can buy an upper receiver and NOT have to go through an FFL.  Which would mean that upper receivers are NOT considered firearms.  The wording does make it seem like they are though.

Going to do more research on this one out of curiosity.

Edited by Ritual (05/08/09 08:02 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Got popped [Re: Ritual]
    #10307564 - 05/08/09 10:50 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

> Here is the Florida Statute defining "firearm".

Yep... if you look back a few pages, you will see where I quoted it as well.  I also said that you could probably argue it in court, as I could not find any related cases, but it would be costly and no guarantee of winning.

The cops and the DA are going to claim that a any thing called a receiver is obviously a receiver (as the law was not specific) while any firearm expert is going to claim that an upper receiver is just a name and does not fit the definition of a receiver when used to define a firearm.

Given the general bias against assault rifles, and the ambiguity of the law, the state would probably side with the cops/DA and claim that anything called a receiver is considered a receiver under state law regardless of the generally accepted definition.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleJohnnyConverse
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Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 268
Re: Got popped [Re: TacticalBongRip]
    #10308315 - 05/08/09 02:01 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

OP, you need to have someone VERY knowledgeable look at your PC - the assumption seems to be that the girl looked around your house and gave the cops PC but it's also possible she bugged your computer somehow with software on her thumbdrive. It's a little paranoid, and it's probably not the case, but if you catch them at it, it might be something you can take to your lawyer. The reason I suspect this in your case is they were suspect of a bunch of shit you didn't have, but evidently talk about online, right?

Next time talk to them through the door and call your lawyer while or before you tt them.


--------------------
I wasn't an activist until I got put in jail. I sat there in jail seeing what was really going on in America and something changed. Now when people say, "Tommy what was jail like?" I say "You'll see" -- Tommy Chong

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
    #10308604 - 05/08/09 03:02 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Sound to me like it IS a firearm.  The OP said it has a bolt and firing pin in it.  That's exactly what a gun is. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but if you have the bolt and a firing pin then you can shove a shell into it and make the firing pin shoot and then you've just fired a round.

It sounds like it might be a firearm to me.

Regardless of what the feds say I don't think it would be all that hard to claim that the upper basically amounts to a fancy zip gun, which would be illegal.  They can also play plenty of videos and show manufacturers that claim that the upper can be easily converted to a functional firearm.


Quote:

If the part found can be shown not to fit the definition of a firearm, that would be the best avenue of defense, I would think. Don't worry about what the warrant said they were looking for.




Stonehenge, that's not how you defend someone.  You have to defend at every point in the case, not just the ones you think are best.  This isn't an either/or situation so it would be very foolish not to try and suppress the evidence.


To the OP... What that girl did was likely use switchblade or some other common USB hack tool on you.  Basically you plug in the thumbdrive and it autostarts a program that silently rapes your computer for all the info it can get.  It's in common use and can be customized in a lot of ways, but right out of the box it would gather plenty of the info that you suspect they stole from you.


-FF

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OfflineRitual
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Re: Got popped [Re: fastfred]
    #10308796 - 05/08/09 03:45 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

I just contacted someone in Florida and an upper receiver is NOT considered a firearm.

The guy is being falsely charged.

He will win in court.

Hope that helps and that IS A DEFINATE ANSWER.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Got popped [Re: Ritual]
    #10308951 - 05/08/09 04:13 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

(6)  "Firearm" means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;




I don't see how the upper doesn't fit this statute.  A pipe and a nail (a zip gun) fit the statute so I don't see how a rifle barrel, bolt mechanism, and a firing pin wouldn't.

> Hope that helps and that IS A DEFINATE ANSWER.

If you have some case law to prove how it is interpreted then please post it.  If there is no case law then the court will decide, and I don't see how they can conclude that it's NOT a firearm.

All they have to do is shove a bullet into it at a firing range then trip the firing pin.  That would prove pretty conclusivly that it IS a firearm.  And I don't see why they wouldn't do this if they wanted to.

Also the definition might vary based on the circumstances.  They could have an entirely different interpretation depending on wheather it applies to selling, possessing, or possessing by a felon.

It's also not the best case.  In Florida you're going to get a bunch of old folks on the jury.  They aren't going to like hearing that a felon has a bunch of gun parts that potentially could fire a bullet.  They are going to think he was planning to make it into a weapon and use it to commit more felonies.  They aren't going to like that and may just end up convicting him regardless of what the law actually is.


BTW I don't like the anything = firearm laws anyways, I'm just giving my opinion of what will probably happen.


-FF

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OfflineEightball
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Re: Got popped [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10309038 - 05/08/09 04:34 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Anonymous, I'm not gonna read through all these pages but I know for 100% fact that an ar15 upper receiver is NOT considered a firearm.  Its a federal definition so it doesn't vary state by state.  Anyways, tell the pigs to fuck off and demand your property back. You also have grounds for a counter suit for illegal seizure of property.  Feel free to PM me or go on IRC and msg me (nick is eightba|| on irc)

Good luck man.


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Got popped [Re: Eightball]
    #10309103 - 05/08/09 04:51 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

> Its a federal definition so it doesn't vary state by state.

Uh, what?  The federal definition defines the minimum.  A state can define it to be anything it wants.  If a state decides to define it as a flower, then it is a flower in that state.

This is a very old post that has been dug out of the archives.  My understanding is that the OP has already made a plea.  It has also been many months since the OP has posted.


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
    #10309272 - 05/08/09 05:27 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

there is no state where an upper receiver is a firearm.  You would need a FFL/background check to buy an upper if there was.  And there isn't.  States can't redefine federal laws.


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.

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Offlineriosricky
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Re: Got popped [Re: TacticalBongRip]
    #10310308 - 05/08/09 09:34 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

if you ever see that girl again follow her to her house and key the shi out of her car.


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OfflineNineInchNails
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Registered: 03/01/09
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Re: Got popped [Re: riosricky]
    #10310477 - 05/08/09 10:12 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

My state has the same gun laws as Florida. An upper can be mailed to your house ... I've done it! It's no big deal …  that cop was just ignorant. It’s NOT a cop’s job to know the gun laws believe it or not. I’ve seen this time and time again. I know someone who was actually detained because some dumb pig said that his weapon had a suppressor/silencer. Dumbass didn’t know what he was looking at.

The equipment you allegedly purchased could be for aquarium use, typical plant use, or both. Any law against growing plants? It doesn’t matter what you were going to use it for because they SHOULD have to prove your intent. My grandma grows all kinds of plants ... does she need a visit from a pissed off pig?

Get a competent lawyer.

This is just ridiculous, but I suppose that's just how it is these days ... guilty until proven innocent.

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Offline79towncar
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Re: Got popped [Re: NineInchNails]
    #10313032 - 05/09/09 02:05 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

If you go to trial make sure your defense hires an "expert" to combat the law. Find a gunsmith and have him testify that an upper receiver in itself is not a firearm. Also have him testify that an upper receiver cannot fire a projectile alone thus makes it just a hunk of metal.. Also I would find a different term to use in court than "receiver" maybe "upper portion" or something along them lines. Talk to your attorney.. Keep us all posted, goodluck.

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