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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
    #9177988 - 11/03/08 02:52 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

john, was he not illegally detained?  they put him in the cop car for close to an hour while they waited to receive a search warrant.  how does that work?


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Got popped [Re: demiu5]
    #9178101 - 11/03/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Given that they recieved a warrant, probably legal.

These actions routinely are suggested as an alternative in cases where a warantless search was dissalowed with no real serious consideration given to their legality.

That said, if they got a valid warrant then it seems pretty clear they had probable cause that a crime was commited or that evidence would be found of one (given the situation and that it wasn't simply a search for evidence of a third party crime but rather a search, we think, for evidence the O.P. commited a crime.

The issue is did the warrant allow for the seizing of firearms, and if it didn't, what remedy is available?  I'll probably check at some point if we can figure out what the warrant actually said and what the supporting evidence was (the former more important and the later only important if the warrant may be materially invalid).


As to the other guy, considering he's likely facing state charges, we'd hope, the USC def. is not really relevant, unless the feds would prosecute if the states couldn't.


So we're wondering what the state definition is, not the "US" definitionl.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
    #9178226 - 11/03/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I can't fight the detention because the cops said they had a right to detain/arrest me because of a statute even I didn't know about:

Quote:


775.13  Registration of convicted felons, exemptions; penalties.--

(1)  As used in this section, the term "convicted" means, with respect to a person's felony offense, a determination of guilt which is the result of a trial or the entry of a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld.

(2)  Any person who has been convicted of a felony in any court of this state shall, within 48 hours after entering any county in this state, register with the sheriff of said county, be fingerprinted and photographed, and list the crime for which convicted, place of conviction, sentence imposed, if any, name, aliases, if any, address, and occupation. If the felony conviction is for an offense that was found, pursuant to s. 874.04, to have been committed for the purpose of benefiting, promoting, or furthering the interests of a criminal gang, the registrant shall identify himself or herself as such an offender. The Department of Law Enforcement, in consultation with appropriate local law enforcement agencies, may develop standardized practices for the inclusion of gang affiliation at the time of offender registration.




Quote:

(5)  The failure of any such convicted felon to comply with this section:

(a)  With regard to any felon not listed in paragraph (b), constitutes a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.




No I wasn't registered because I thought only POS offenders had to register in Florida.

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OfflineTheGiantGnome13
Shitdafuck
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Registered: 10/02/08
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Re: Got popped [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #9178274 - 11/03/08 03:55 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

so what was the point of telling us about the girl using the computer it had no role in this story.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Got popped [Re: TheGiantGnome13]
    #9178354 - 11/03/08 04:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

In my paranoia I imagine the pendrive was loaded with a modified version of EnCase or a file retriever program to strip my hard drive and image my physical memory so they could decode any whole drive encryption if I had one (which I did not).

I keep telling myself I'm just being paranoid and they would only do such a thing for big time criminal, and it could likely have just been a coincindence.

I didn't have any firewall before this happened, so if they could do some cloak-and-dagger stuff like a pendrive scheme they could have hacked into my system from knowing my IP, would have been easier, maybe:shrug:

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Got popped [Re: TheGiantGnome13]
    #9178452 - 11/03/08 04:23 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

> so what was the point of telling us about the girl using the computer it had no role in this story.

He suspects that she searched his computer and used the info obtained to convince a judge to issue the search warrant, I assume.

I suspect this will boil down to one of two things...

1) the case will be resolved based upon another like case in which the definition of "receiver" has been established.  If such case exists, your will follow the same.

2) the case will be resolved by expert witness that testifies that according to federal guidelines the serialized section of a dual receiver firearm is the the actual receiver while the non-serialized section is simply a part.  This is well established at the federal level, and without a previous case at the state level, one would hope that this is the direction the judge goes, tossing out the case before going to trial.

Depending upon the actual wording of the warrant, where they searched, and what they seized, it might be dropped sooner.  It all depends upon how narrow the search warrant was and if they violated it or not.  Again, something that might work against them.  That they didn't find drugs is a huge plus on your side.

Use your fear and worries to motivate you to help your lawyer.  Start digging to try and find cases that are like yours that will help set a precedence in your favor.  I would start with the search warrant and with any cases that define receiver on a dual receiver firearm.

Stay clean and don't give in to the temptation of alcohol as an escape.  The absolute worse thing you can do is get in trouble for something else.  Focus, don't panic!  The burden is on them, and you have given them as little as possible so far.  From the cheap seats here, unless a previous case screws you, I think you have a pretty good chance with expert testimony defining the upper as an unserialized part rather than a frame/reciever.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleLiquidkick
H2O
Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 2,635
Re: Got popped [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #9178740 - 11/03/08 05:26 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

what in the world!

They thought you were growing MJ even though you weren't...


WOW. 


Someone hates you.

Good thing i do not let anyone use my computer.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Posts: 14,850
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Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
    #9178771 - 11/03/08 05:30 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

If the part found can be shown not to fit the definition of a firearm, that would be the best avenue of defense, I would think. Don't worry about what the warrant said they were looking for. There have been many cases in which the cops found things not envisioned by the warrant and it stood up.

I'm still waiting for the OP to say he got a good lawyer. He can use tips gained on this forum to help the lawyer but he needs the lawyer. Don't try to do it yourself.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Got popped [Re: Stonehenge]
    #9178877 - 11/03/08 05:50 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

> I'm still waiting for the OP to say he got a good lawyer.

He did say he had a lawyer, but I don't know about good.

> He can use tips gained on this forum to help the lawyer but he needs the lawyer. Don't try to do it yourself.

Absolutely.  I thought I was clear in this respect when I said, "Use your fear and worries to motivate you to help your lawyer."  I never meant to imply, even remotely, to do it yourself.  Even lawyers don't defend themselves, for good reason.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Got popped [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #9179670 - 11/03/08 08:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Seems more likely than not the two are related.

How many times has an unknown person ever enetered your house only on a story that they needed something?

Never happened to me- ever.

How long was she at your computer?

They could have taken your cache or history.



I don't know if that is legal, really, though.  While they don't have to tell you they are cops, I would think they would have to get permission to copy info.

you let her use the comp to download information from the internet, right?  not to take stuff off your computer and certainly not to take you history.  While they would argue that by letting her use your computer you let her access such information and if she can access it she can record it (like a telephone conversation) I don't think this holds water.  When you let someone use your computer it is not accepted by society and standard courtesy/understanding that that person gets to take things from your computer.  And certainly this is not neccesary and implicit to your grant of authority to her.


They will argue that by letting her take stuff from your computer, the information cached from the download upon your computer (I believe this is how it works) that you let her take other informaiton, but I think this is false.  You let her download from the internet, right?  Not download from your computer, even if unbenownst to you such is implicit in downloading from the computer.  And you certainly didn't grant authority to take your history or cache.




Anyways, can you tell us what the definition of firearm is that is relevant?  Looking up what hte upper receiver is on an ar-15 I really can't imagine that is a firearm under any definition.  Its just a fucking tube right?  like a metal tube. 



Obviously the girl will only be relevant in the criminal matter if they used that to justify the search warrant (the computer part).


Without incriminating yourself, was there a smell of marijuana in the house?  Did they find any?  I would hope not.  This would seem to indicate the girl was lieing and hopefully, with a sane judge, thusly conclude. 



Could you share how they suspected you?  Any idea what set them off?  What charges do you suspect?  not registering, possesion of firearm, what else?


I'll check out the warrant deals latter, like I said, but let us know what and if you get the search warrant.  I would think they'd have to serve it upon you, but like many things the cops do they will break the law when it suits them.  And like many things the judges do, they will ignore the cops breaking the law when it suits them (always).

Florida, I'm increasingly convinced, is completely insane when it comes to criminal policy.  When will people wake up and realize the cops are not our friends and giving the criminal justice empire more power is not the way to go?  They are allready well situated to deal with real crime with sufficient laws and wide sentencing ranges to deter and punish real criminals.  More bullshit is not needed.  Hopefully the fuckers that vote will stop voting for "tough on crime" politicians and judges that don't fucking think.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Got popped [Re: johnm214]
    #9181293 - 11/04/08 06:45 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
How long was she at your computer?




About 15 minutes, I had dial-up internet at the time and my downloads never exceeded 5kb/s, once I think it shot up to 7.8kb/s

Quote:

johnm214 said:

They could have taken your cache or history.



I don't know if that is legal, really, though.  While they don't have to tell you they are cops, I would think they would have to get permission to copy info.




I wonder if this or similar tactic is legal under sneek-and-peek or quick-peek searches, or delayed notification search warrant?

Quote:

johnm214 said:

you let her use the comp to download information from the internet, right?  not to take stuff off your computer and certainly not to take you history.  While they would argue that by letting her use your computer you let her access such information and if she can access it she can record it (like a telephone conversation) I don't think this holds water.  When you let someone use your computer it is not accepted by society and standard courtesy/understanding that that person gets to take things from your computer.  And certainly this is not neccesary and implicit to your grant of authority to her.




She only asked if she could download software for internet access, I remember having a similar issue after reinstalling my OEM Windows XP and having to download drivers for the entire system before it would work correctly.

Quote:

johnm214 said:
They will argue that by letting her take stuff from your computer, the information cached from the download upon your computer (I believe this is how it works) that you let her take other informaiton, but I think this is false.  You let her download from the internet, right?  Not download from your computer, even if unbenownst to you such is implicit in downloading from the computer.  And you certainly didn't grant authority to take your history or cache.




This issue was only implied by her, that she asked to download software from the internet, no issue about obtaining information was discussed.


Quote:

johnm214 said:
Anyways, can you tell us what the definition of firearm is that is relevant?  Looking up what hte upper receiver is on an ar-15 I really can't imagine that is a firearm under any definition.  Its just a fucking tube right?  like a metal tube.




The AR-15 upper receiver houses the "bolt carrier group" basically the bolt, charging handle, forward assist, firing pin and ejector.

The definition of receiver in Florida statutes is basically "receiver", no other information or definition is included anywhere at all, I have even checked all Florida standard jury instructions and no other information about receivers is there either.
There is no caselaw, statutes, definitions in statutes, jury instructions, I can find nothing.


Quote:

johnm214 said:
Without incriminating yourself, was there a smell of marijuana in the house?  Did they find any?  I would hope not.  This would seem to indicate the girl was lieing and hopefully, with a sane judge, thusly conclude. 



Could you share how they suspected you?  Any idea what set them off?  What charges do you suspect?  not registering, possesion of firearm, what else?




I will give the best timeline I can recall about this:

December/2007-March/2008 ordered hydroponic equipment online and paid for such through cash or M/O through snail-mail.

During this time and the following months I let the equipment sit and conducted intense counter-surveillance of pirates that may have wanted to commandeer my ship and provisions including black tea that is highly regarded by the British.

May/2008 conducted a test of the equipment and noticed a vulnerability and needed to correct, also noticed that white paint was not reflective enough.

May/2008 ordered air cooled reflector, mylar and fan/carbon filter combination and was impatient at this point and paid with credit card through online popular payment site.

May/2008 went to internet cafe and used their internet to order milk thistle seeds from Hungary and have them shipped to unspecified location, that if grown hydroponically would yield increased flavanoids for medicinal use.

June/July-2008 abandoned the idea after a couple irrelevant issue and the equipment was destroyed*.

August/September-2008 noticed from reviewing camera recording noticed that a white truck had pulled up to my trashcan and a guy stepped out of the truck, removed the contents of the trashcan and placed into the bed of the truck and then left. I mentioned this in the anonymous forum some time ago.

October/2008 warrant served, and a now in retrospect suspicious girl asked to use my computer, until I see some information I don't know for sure about her. She was nice though.

I remember now a virus alert there was something about a not-a-virus.xxxx.xxxx.xxx I can't remember anything except the not a virus part from a full system scan performed that night (it was set to scan everyday at 2am) I figure it was a hoax worm or something if the K7 reports it as not-a-virus, it can't be a trojan or anything:shrug:

I can't get to that virus log since I have wiped my hard drive with a gutman 35 round twister, a DoD 7 round ISAAC and then another gutman 35 round twister, then a gutman 35 round ISAAC.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Got popped [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #9181988 - 11/04/08 10:44 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

"August/September-2008 noticed from reviewing camera recording noticed that a white truck had pulled up to my trashcan and a guy stepped out of the truck, removed the contents of the trashcan and placed into the bed of the truck and then left. I mentioned this in the anonymous forum some time ago."

This is what I'm talking about in the "taking out the trash" thread. Garbage surveillence is the most common form since it's cheap and does not require a warrant or permission from a court. Read that thread for tips on how to defeat this tactic.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Anonymous #1

Re: Got popped [Re: Stonehenge]
    #9184126 - 11/04/08 06:27 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Update:

001 | NO INFO | FXXD79023 | POSS F/ARM, WEP DELINQ/CONV FEL | 10/XX/2008 | XX SO

Still no info, the status area usually says OPEN or CLOS here it says NO INFO, in case anyone is wondering the FXXD thing is the statute not the case number.  I've never heard of the state taking this long to file info, I am becoming optimistic:)

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OfflineVermonster420
I gotta have more cowbell !
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Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 662
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Re: Got popped [Re: TacticalBongRip]
    #9199259 - 11/06/08 11:07 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

One of the lessons to be learned here is:TRUST YOU INTUITION!
You had bad vibes from that chick coming into your house.  You should have said NO or got her ID at least.  Her story was BS and you got set up and knocked down.
You may be ok in the end but the lesson remains...Keep strangers out of your home and lock the doors.  Set marker traps like a matchstick in the doorjamb.  If disrupted, ditch your contraband ASA(F)P!!  Then when the cop serves the warrent, you can let him in and video tape him going thru your haouse so he doesn't PLANT SHIT!~

Then file a greivance with his department for his behavior and conduct.


--------------------
To thine own self be true.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
Ass...it's the NEW pussy!
"Gungah-DeGungah"

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Offlineacid_kiss
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Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 97
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: Got popped [Re: demiu5]
    #9199754 - 11/07/08 12:44 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

That sucks man.  I don't think with what they knew they could have got a search warrant or kicked your door in or they would have done it, not given you a chance to open it.  Buying those things and having information is not illegal.  Once the cop got you to open the door he knows he can say he smells weed even if he doesn't because that gives him a right to search now.  He knows you have it, so he'll say anything to get in your house and smell or see it.

If a cop comes to your door never answer it, you don't have too.  Tell them they can call you on your cell phone if its an emergency or kick your door in if they have a warrant.  Don't admit anything on the phone.  Makes you look guilty as hell, but if you open the door you have a 100% percent chance of getting busted.  Not opening the door gives you some time before they come up with some BS to finally get a warrant.   

I got this from that barry coopers never get busted again.  You can find it on mininova.com  Good video to watch.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Got popped [Re: acid_kiss]
    #9304554 - 11/24/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I am in complete shock.

This poorly written and uninformative affidavit does not warrant a search at all. And the nod thing never happened, we only talked about weed not a gun, I know enough god damn law to know not to say or "motion" any god damn thing. LIARS............................................


---------------------------------------------------------

This agency was contacted by an anonymous complainant to advise that [redacted] at [redacted], is a convicted felon and possesses an AR-15 rifle usually located in his bedroom closet at target residence.

Your affiant performed a NCIC check of [redacted] and confirmed that target has been convicted in a Florida court of trafficking in cocaine and therefore is prohibited by Florida law from possessing firearms and ammunition.

On Monday, October XX, 2008 1030 HRS your affiant, in the company of SIU [redacted] and DET [redacted], initiated a casual encounter with [redacted] at target residence. During said encounter, your affiant asked target if he possesses any firearms or ammunition, to this he nodded, indicating "yes".


Your affiant has in excess of 10 years police experience. The above facts indicate the presence of a firearm at target residence.


-----------------------------------------------

Things to be searched and searched for says residence located at xxxxxxxxxxx and to look for firearms and ammunition.

The form marked on top RETURN says an AR-15 was seized.


-----------------------------------------------

So now the question begs itself who is the fucking snitch?

Sorry, I didn't type up the forms but I don't think anything relevant is there.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Got popped [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #9304838 - 11/24/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Be sure you check the dates and times on everything.  Something here doesn't add up... it almost sounds like they changed what they requested after the fact.  If so, there should be court records that show such.  I would laugh my ass off if you were able to nail a cop for perjury or fraud.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineJamesChappy
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Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
    #9308883 - 11/25/08 03:03 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Holy shit dude, it sounds like you'd have to face a jury as a convicted felon against a 10 year veteran cop. F U C K.

You should have a copy of the search warrant. If not, request it. Then post it while redacting all private info. The warrant should clear up a lot of questions and could possibly poke a lot of holes into the prosecution's arguments.

You should be able to depose the police officers involved and I'd definitely ask questions regarding when this anonymous informant did his/her informing.

During trial I'd ask why the warrant was for drugs when the informant was talking about guns.

I'd also question the validity of a warrant. Just because a judge issues a warrant doesn't mean it will hold up later in court. Last time I checked, buying hydroponic equipment didn't constitute probable cause for a warrant. Now if that girl really DID find something on your computer than they might have probable cause. Find out if that girl really was with the police or not.

WHO would tell the police you had a gun? Think about it. You need to be SURE that the police are lying about that. Ex-girlfriends/wives, people you owe money to, a mom who's got a fucked up sense of law and order... who would tell the police that? Is there any way the girl could have spotted the receiver?

From what I've read so far, I think you MIGHT have a case if you get a DAMN good lawyer. And with these kinds of charges you NEED to get a damn good lawyer. I really would like to see the information on the Warrant. I'm pretty pissed off at how poorly the cops handled the whole thing. They acted like they had a vendetta against you. Little things too, like actually serving you with the warrant papers, instead of just flashing them at you through a car window... Talking to you in a civil manner instead of yelling and barking orders at you...

If this damn war on drugs and civil rights isn't over soon, people are going to start exercising their rights with firearms instead of lawyers. Lets hope Obama's "Change" means a new look at drug enforcement.

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OfflineJamesChappy
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Re: Got popped [Re: Seuss]
    #9308889 - 11/25/08 03:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Be sure you check the dates and times on everything.  Something here doesn't add up... it almost sounds like they changed what they requested after the fact.  If so, there should be court records that show such.  I would laugh my ass off if you were able to nail a cop for perjury or fraud.




Dear God I would love to see that. There is nothing that makes me happier than watching a crooked cop go to jail. Of course the district attorney would probably decline to prosecute the cop... chances are the cop wouldn't even get disciplined, much less fired.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
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Re: Got popped [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #9309121 - 11/25/08 06:33 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

That's fucked up. :thumbdown: I hope it works out for you, though.

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