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Offlinesocratesmind
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Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid?
    #915791 - 09/28/02 10:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Was curious about the potency of the diff. psiclobin containing shrooms. I know azures are on top and cubes are somewhere in the middle but can anyone put cyans and the others like mexicana into a chart other than the one on erowid or is that the only source?? Thanks guys


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Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Administrator [Re: socratesmind]
    #915801 - 09/28/02 10:49 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)



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Offlinesocratesmind
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: Anonymous]
    #915930 - 09/28/02 11:35 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yea it'd be nice but i think you might need some expensive equipment to determine all that :frown:.  But I heard that each strain is just a little diff with experiences and such i just would like some numbers maybe? :smile: 


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Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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OfflineT0aD
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: socratesmind]
    #916290 - 09/29/02 04:50 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

maybe  :tongue:


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: socratesmind]
    #916334 - 09/29/02 05:39 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

From maxima from the few quantative alkaloid analysis known to me, if say that ps.arcana, ps.azurescens, ps.cyanescens, ps.bohemica, ps.subaeruginosa and ps.semilanceata are in the top potency range.
Ps.tampensis, ps.mexicanna, pan cyans etc would be in the less potent range
Ps.cubensis would be middle to low potency and pan.subs would be in the very least potent category.
If you want maxima of a variety of species i can quote it from references, but it would take ages, and i havent read all references so i might not be correct


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Offlinesocratesmind
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #916648 - 09/29/02 12:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Also i'm guessing the higher in potency the more picky of substrate they are and alot harder to cultivate??


--------------------
Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: socratesmind]
    #916784 - 09/29/02 02:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The sum of psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin in each species is below. Azurecens are by far the most potent, the rest are more or less equal. The difference in the other species is in the range 1.2% to 1.5%. This is the order of potency:

1, Azurecens - 2.5%
2, Baeocystis - 1.5%
3, bohemica
4, semileanceata
5, cubensis
6, cyanecens
7, tampanaensis ~ 1%



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Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (09/29/02 02:32 PM)


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Offlinerosewoodpete
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: Xlea321]
    #917360 - 09/29/02 07:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Where does samuenisis fit into it all potency wise?


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OfflineShroominSpradl
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: socratesmind]
    #918254 - 09/30/02 01:53 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)



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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: Xlea321]
    #918715 - 09/30/02 05:38 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You shouldnt always just quote straight from Stamets.
Mjshroomer and Gartz suggest that ps.Cyanescens (which in no way is even COMPARABLE in potency to ps.Cubensis) is infact equally of not more potent than Ps.Azurescens.
Recent analysis of Ps.Subaeruginosa (1995), Ps.Mairei and Ps.Arcana also point out that these three mushrooms are considerably potent.
I should also point out that a Ps.Semilanceata specimen had the highest psilocybin content of any mushroom ever analysed for alkaloid content.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: rosewoodpete]
    #919180 - 09/30/02 11:55 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Where does samuenisis fit into it all potency wise?

Up around semileanceata


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #919181 - 09/30/02 11:56 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You shouldnt always just quote straight from Stamets.

So is stamets wrong?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlineaural
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: Xlea321]
    #919285 - 09/30/02 01:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I though Stamets considered azurescens to be botanically very close to cyanescens (according to GGMM...I don't have PMotW).So why is it so far down the list?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: aural]
    #919390 - 09/30/02 02:32 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

He has a table showing the sum of each of the active constituents, azurecens is way ahead, cyans come just after cubensis.


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OfflineBlueJay
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: Xlea321]
    #919880 - 09/30/02 06:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Bullshit..Pans  are way more potent then cubes..period... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


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Respect all, Fear None!
The Peacemaker

Cacti are my new life.....


Edited by BlueJay (09/30/02 06:23 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: BlueJay]
    #919889 - 09/30/02 06:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Not according to Paul Stamets the author of "psilocybin mushrooms of the world".

Where did you get your information?


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OfflineBlueJay
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: Xlea321]
    #920039 - 09/30/02 07:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

A friend of a friends actual ingestion of equal dry weights....


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Respect all, Fear None!
The Peacemaker

Cacti are my new life.....


Edited by BlueJay (09/30/02 07:39 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: BlueJay]
    #921178 - 09/30/02 09:07 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I'll go with stamets for now.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #922826 - 10/01/02 03:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

P. cyanescens is the most potent mushroom producing as many as 80 or more doses in a dried ounce of baby specimens.

P. pelliculosa is the least potent with an average of 8 to ten doeses per fresh pound.\\

After four months of drying most Azurescens lose over 60 % of their potency. P. baeocystis which are potent in their fresh stage lose ove 80 percent in normal drying of a few days.

While Azures are potent when fresh, they are much weaker after drying and as stated above the liberty caps retain their potency for long leriods of time. One collection from London from 1851 was found to be as poitent as a collection from 1976 studied by Beug, Bigwood and Ott.


Copelandia cyanesens (in a one gram dried dosae) are also as potent as liberty caps in their dried stage as research shown by Stijve and Meijer have proven in collections from Allen and Young from Australia, Hawai, Thailand and Cambodia.

The blue meanies in Australia (C. cyanescens were found to be high in psilocine while their Hawaiian counterparts were found to be high in psilocybine.

Additional research by Badham, and later Beug and Bigwood and Bigwood and Beug, 1982 found a varience of from one to ten in fresh and wild specimens of P. cubensis and several species collected from the pacific northwest by them also showed psilocybe cyanescens to be the most potent.

P. cubensis at a one fresh ounce to two fresh ounces was found to be equivalent to a Mazatec mushroom ceremonial doasge or of equal potencie from three to five dried grams.

One dried gram is an average dose for most recreatioanal users of P. cubensis but that is not the high and that one gram is normally sold for ten dollars a gram or 25.00 to 50 dollars for an 1/8th of an ounce making it the biggest ripoff priced mushroom in mushroom history.

This is evident by the hundreds of sellers at the annual rainbow gathertings who sell doses to participants of one grams at ten dollars per.

Regarding the high poitency of Psilocybe cyanescens, David Tatelman of Homestead Book Company and J. Ott have participated in a 7 doses in one dried gram of primordia Psilocybe cyanescens.

A fresh ounce of P. cyanecens with only three to five large shrooms generally will get four to six people inebriated, while a similar fresh ounce containing from ten to fifty or so smaller size specimens weighing in at one ounce with get ten to twenty people higher or more.

This could go on and on and then again a collection of Psilocybe cyanescens from one garden could have twice the potency of a simiolar collection from miles away from the first and the same can be said for a collectiopn on one side of the street when compared to a second collection from around the corner of the block. ANd then individual specimens can range quite differently in their potencies even within the same species.

Four shrooms of equal weight may be given to four people of similar weight and each who eat the four separate shrooms may have differnet levels of potencies. even among those of differnet weights and similar weights..

Copelandia cyanesecens is also similar in effect by a one gram dose to P. semilanceatq (liberty cap), however drying the Copelandia mushrooms requires a few years experience to preserve these shrooms with as little oxidation as possible when picking, handling and preserving.

AS for Panawolus subbalteatus, most found in rotted hay are the same potenciy as most Psilocybe ubensis mushrooms. One fresh ounce or more in a tea or from three to five dried grams is about the same level of potency as P. cubensis

I and others have written here on this subject over and over and it is time for Thor or whomever to archive some of this repeated information including those who think they are getting high smoking shrooms. Especially those who smoke shrooms with their pot.

This is another urban legend.

The P. samuiensis are potent in a range of 12 to 24 fresh mushrooms or one dried gram.

Stijve also compared four doses of Hawaiian Copelandia cyanescens in a human laboratory experiment as being equal to one dried gram dose of liberty caps (given to four individuals in a Swiss Laboratory setting). which again as mentioned above are equivelant to a Mazatec ceremonial dosage.

mj

All of the above information I present is documented in poublished literature.

mj

And again regarding Paul Stamets, their are many areas of misidentificationin his guide. I posted this in a recent post on the best field guides.

a single example is his Papailaceus should rad as P. subbalteatus and his identification of my mushrooms lit it as Psilocybe samuuiensis Guzman, Allen and Merlin when in fact it is really Psilocybe samuiensis Guzman, Bandlala and Allen.

ANd regarding Pauls photograph of Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa shown in David Aurora's book Mushrooms Dymiistified, is listed as Psilocybe cyanescens. Paul ghas been informed of numerous errors ina all of his four books yet has never attempted to correct the typos and misinformation.

Still His book is cool, however Gartz and I wrote to him in 1990 that we were preparing a pictorial on Psilocynine contain mushrooms of the world and then Paul published his guide after we announced we were preparing one.

Do not get me wriong becasue Paul is my frined, but Gartz book came out as Magic Mushrooms around the world with my photos and in four fiddrent editions now and Paul is preparing a second book as a sequal to the first mushrooms of the world.

David Arora also knows of this error and has failed to correct it.

Additionally high times published APauls set up ohoto showing a stuntzii with Galerinas in the same photo. Paul placed this shoom to show the comparison of a toxic shroom with a halucinogenic P. psilocybe. High Time mislabeled the images showing the deadly Galerina as P. stuntzii and the P. stunzii as the Galerina.

Many authors including myself sent letters of this error tot he magazine, of which Paul did not and then four months later High TImes published a correction and again showed the same error they published four months previously.

My first eeition to Magic mushrooms of the Pacific Northwest had P. stuntzii photographs in it listed as Psilocybe cyanescens. They were identified for me by Dr. Daniel Stuntz for whom the stuntzii's are named inhis honor for work conducted int he PNW. I listed the dosage as from 20 to forty mushrooms. Can you image what would have hapened had someone eaten twenty to forty P. cyanescens thinking they were p. stuntzii.

Also mty photos of Panaeolus subbalteatus came form abnother guide written by a field collector who loaned them to me. Turns out they were yound penis stage baby P. cubensis shrooms.

So when all of you refer to anyones guides remember that even the experts have many errors of judgement intheir books, including my first addition.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (10/01/02 04:03 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Species ?'s of potency updated from Erowid? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #922889 - 10/01/02 04:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Oh yes, one other note.

Conocybe cyanopus, a sometimes common in a particular field but rare requires a fresh dosage of fifty to 75 mushrooms which might weight approximately one third of a fresh ounce. They are small inconspicuous shrooms and weigh very little but I have seen a few people consum upo to 100 specimens weighing a half an ounce. I would also mention that this species is also know for producing sclerotia.

mj



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