Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinemyriadeyes
man with a movie camera

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 358
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: ApJunkie]
    #9159686 - 10/30/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

i could tell from your first post.


--------------------
If you spare a little of your imagination . . .


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
Male


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9159687 - 10/30/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
So I'm in the market for a belief system...




"Having a system is as fatal as having no system at all"


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: mr_kite]
    #9159834 - 10/30/08 03:59 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

WTF does that mean?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleblewmeanie
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc: Flag
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: Icelander]
    #9159899 - 10/30/08 04:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

We're all gonna die someday. :shrug:


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9159904 - 10/30/08 04:18 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

No shit?:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
Male


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: Icelander]
    #9159957 - 10/30/08 04:29 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It's a rule for learning. It means when you think you've got it nailed, that's just as bad not even bothering to try and nail it. It makes sense to me when I say it right anyway


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: mr_kite]
    #9159984 - 10/30/08 04:34 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

oh


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDervish
Stranger

Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 17
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9160372 - 10/30/08 06:07 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Read Holy Quran if you're sincerely seeking the truth with an open mind and heart...

I don’t like reciting Quran for Christians or non-believers. But you may respect Dr. Rick Strassman so a recite a short passage from his new book “Inner Paths to Outer Space”.  He describes mystical experiences in DMT trips: “Time no longer passes in its normal manner, but instead seems suspended or subdumed in an eternity containing past, present and future. Space is no longer limited, but at the same time, all existance rests in the smallest possible unit of space. The self can now hold and feel at utter peace with life, good and evil are seen in their deepest reality, and the nature of free will is clearly percieved. In a mystical experience, individuals are certain of the soul’s existence without a body and are thus sure of its existence after body’s death. IT IS KNOWN AS A CERTAINTY THAT THERE EXISTS AN UNIMAGINABLY POWERFUL CREATOR AND SUSTAINER OF REALITY, AND OF YOU PARTICULAR. THIS CREATOR IS UNBORN, UNCREATED, UNDYING AND UNCHANGING. The  ecstasy and searing bliss accompanying such experiences, though previously unequaled in intensity, is nevertheless less striking than peace and equanimity that supports and underlies this bliss.”  (page 58).
This is very similar to definition God in a short but very important verse of Quran: “SAY: HE, ALLAH, IS ONE. ALLAH IS HE ON WHOM ALL DEPEND. HE BEGETS NOT, NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN. AND NONE IS LIKE HIM.” (The Unity).
These are the words of God. Quran has also hundreds of verses warning people from the day of resurrection and judgement and horrific fire of hell. Just one of them: “EVERY HUMAN BEING IS BOUND TO TASTE DEATH: BUT ONLY ON THE DAY OF RESURRECTION WILL YOU BE REQUITED IN FULL [FOR WHATEVER YOU HAVE DONE] - WHEREUPON HE THAT SHALL BE DRAWN AWAY FROM THE FIRE AND BROUGHT INTO PARADISE WILL INDEED HAVE GAINED A TRIUMPH: FOR THE LIFE OF THIS WORLD IS NOTHING BUT AN ENJOYMENT OF SELF-DELUSION.” (3.185)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9160855 - 10/30/08 07:56 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Send me 30$ and you'll permanently escape existential insecurity!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9160944 - 10/30/08 08:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

myriadeyes said:
I agree, it was easy for Him, but if I'm drowning in a river, and someone reaches out to save me from a boat, that's like me saying "No, it's unfair, you have an advantage."




Um, that's all well and good dude, but you also said he's the one who pushed you into the river in the first place.

:confused:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #9160983 - 10/30/08 08:18 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

youbreakyoubuy said:
How about the Society of Friends?  A.K.A.  Quakers.




I prefer the United Society of Believers in Christ’s Second Appearing, or the Shakers to be frank.  At least they made good furniture.  :thumbup:

Quote:

myriadeyes said:
The earth truly is a place of drowning, full of sorrow and evil, and the way out is to simply ask God for a hand.




So believing in God will cure my syphilis?  Or stop this agonizing, chronic pain I've had ever since I got shot in the Iraq war?

Quote:

Dervish said:
Read Holy Quran if you're sincerely seeking the truth with an open mind and heart...




Seems awfully similar to the Bible, only less original.  After all, Jesus was around 600 years before Mohammed.  Why should I choose Islam over Christianity?

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Send me 30$ and you'll permanently escape existential insecurity!




Sounds like I'll be trading existential for financial insecurity.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemyriadeyes
man with a movie camera

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 358
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9161615 - 10/30/08 10:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

it would be more like he created me using parts of the river and I would die without Him helping me out.

if your reason for hating God is because of this, I'd still take a lifetime of suffering for eternal bliss, wouldn't you..? sounds like an incredible deal, not unfair. of course you don't believe in eternal bliss from what I gather, but I hope you see what I'm saying.. we shouldn't hate God or disbelieve in him because we see suffering in the world.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9161625 - 10/30/08 10:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

myriadeyes said:we shouldn't hate God or disbelieve in him because we see suffering in the world.




Perhaps not, but I'd rather not believe in a God who sees suffering in this earthly life and chooses to ignore it.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemyriadeyes
man with a movie camera

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 358
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9161665 - 10/30/08 10:21 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

maybe knowing suffering is the only way to enjoy bliss more than someone "born" into bliss :shrug:

if evidence led you to believe a God had to create this world (I'm not saying it does for you, but it does for me), why would you not want to believe in a God offering you eternal bliss after all of your suffering? just because you had to suffer??


--------------------
If you spare a little of your imagination . . .


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9161764 - 10/30/08 10:41 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

myriadeyes said:
maybe knowing suffering is the only way to enjoy bliss more than someone "born" into bliss :shrug:

if evidence led you to believe a God had to create this world (I'm not saying it does for you, but it does for me), why would you not want to believe in a God offering you eternal bliss after all of your suffering? just because you had to suffer??




Because the offer isn't given to me by God, it is given to me by other faulty humans (many with likely ulterior motives). :tongue:


Edited by Sleepwalker (10/30/08 10:42 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemyriadeyes
man with a movie camera

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 358
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9161787 - 10/30/08 10:45 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

okay, now you have left the premise in which we were arguing. i can do nothing more here since you've seen fit to leave the argument in favor of returning to old "tried and true" methods..

the problem is, many people get caught on the idea that since there is suffering, there can be no God, or atleast not a good One. that's what I'm arguing against here. if you want to return to the topic, feel free.

anyways, you say it was given to you by other faulty humans, but if God exists I'm quite sure he can accomplish whatever he wants in this world, if that means telling us something about Himself to live our lives by. if God exists, I can't see it being any other way. what do you think? lets hypothetically say He exists, would he just create us and say, "good luck". yeah our minds are pretty good, but so far no unified theory or any type of explanation has worked for why we exist by just thinking..if so, we'd all be able to think it.

to me it seems the only way of ever understanding existence would have to be from supernatural Divine knowledge, something from outside this universe. if the doctrines make sense, maybe it's true. the problem is truth requires root, stem, and branches - the proto-indo-european d-r = truth, tree, and druid. in order to formulate a working logic, it must have root stem and branches. one cannot simply put God under a microscope and say, "I can't see him in this particular, therefore he must not exist.." this is what reductionist like Richard Dawkins and John Stewart Mill try to do. it's irrational and illogical to think that would be possible.. it truly requires "thing upon thing", forming a straight line in God's logic.


Edited by myriadeyes (10/30/08 10:59 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9161844 - 10/30/08 10:57 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

You asked, "why would you not want to believe in a God offering you eternal bliss after all of your suffering?"

I was simply pointing out that God hasn't offered that to me.  The only offers of that sort that have come my way have been through humans.

IF God offered me eternal bliss and I was 100% sure the offer came from GOD, I would definitely take it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemyriadeyes
man with a movie camera

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 358
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #9161859 - 10/30/08 11:02 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

keep studying and who knows, maybe one day you'll believe He did, maybe not. the most important thing is to keep your mind open to any and all ideas. He's not going to come down and talk to you, but if you study the logic He gave to us, I think you may find it makes sense. I'd be perfectly willing to denounce Christianity if someone showed me any solid evidence suggesting the contrary. I'm just going on the evidence I've found..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9161914 - 10/30/08 11:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

The thing is, I don't know whether or not there is a God.  The only evidence I can see pointing towards that is through the testimony of human-written books and other people, who may all be fallible.

I'm therefore faced with the choice: do I behave God's laws to be rewarded with a blissful afterlife, or do I shirk God's laws in order to enjoy what life I have left before I die.

If I choose the first option, and God exists, I'm granted an eternity of pleasure.  My earthly life is not very happy (at least, subjectively, following the traditional Christian creed does not particularly strike my fancy), but this made up for in the afterlife.  0 + 10 = 10.
If I choose the first option, and God doesn't exist, I just wasted my earthly time following made-up laws and squandered any possibility of earthly pleasures before I die.  My earthly life is not very happy and then I die.  0 + 0 = 0.
If I choose the second option, and God exists, what happens?  I suppose this varies according to your faith, but most monotheistic religions preach that I'll be doomed to hellfire.  I live it up now but am doomed to hellfire.  10 + 0 = 10.
If I choose the second option, and God doesn't exist, I've obtained the maximum amount of pleasure that I can out of this earthly life before my spirit is extinguished.  I live it up now and then die. 10 + 0 = 10.

Choosing to sin now and enjoy earthly pleasures therefore grants me 10 pts of satisfaction whether God exists or not.  (And in fact, I might even consider living eternally in hellfire to be better off than ceasing to be.)  This is in contrast to choosing to obey God's will now, which grants me an average of 5 pts of satisfaction.

From the game theory analysis of the situation (Pascal's wager, essentially), I therefore conclude that it is to my benefit to sin now, regardless of whether or not God exists.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleblewmeanie
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc: Flag
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9161939 - 10/30/08 11:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

One more bump for judaism, there isnt an eternal hell. :thumbup:


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Next >  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Isn't Atheism just another belief system?
( 1 2 3 all )
FreakQlibrium 4,019 56 12/08/04 01:37 PM
by Fucknuckle
* Personal belief systems
( 1 2 all )
Frog 2,963 34 12/20/03 05:40 PM
by Frog
* The Religion (belief system) Conspiracy Sclorch 1,153 11 03/06/02 02:59 AM
by alphatrion
* Binary belief systems.
( 1 2 all )
Xibalba 4,596 32 07/15/02 12:29 AM
by erectronik
* human centric belief systems.
( 1 2 all )
truekimbo2 2,304 22 05/03/04 07:31 PM
by ParabolaChair
* Belief System Selector zetek 2,256 12 06/18/01 12:21 PM
by Sclorch
* Adopting Beliefs
( 1 2 all )
Swami 2,693 22 03/13/05 03:06 PM
by egghead1
* Anatomy of a Belief Swami 1,044 10 10/14/02 10:54 AM
by postalboy

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
9,499 topic views. 3 members, 5 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 15 queries.