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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9151788 - 10/28/08 11:24 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said: The only meaning in life is that which you give it. Pick one, and run with it.




Hence why I am asking for a good, comprehensive list of viable belief systems.  I need to know my options before I settle down.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9151797 - 10/28/08 11:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

How about a belief system that says you shouldn't settle your belief system down?

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: DieCommie]
    #9151803 - 10/28/08 11:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

As much as I strive for the lofty goal of believing six impossible and simultaneously contradictory things before breakfast each day, I sense having a chaotic belief system would make living life rather unpractical.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9151809 - 10/28/08 11:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Not chaotic... just open to change; usually slowly, sometimes quickly.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: DieCommie]
    #9151819 - 10/28/08 11:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I'll concur that it's always wise to amend beliefs that fail to adequately predict, or are logically incoherent.

But I still have to start from somewhere though; having no beliefs period is a bit of a hard thing to do.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9151850 - 10/28/08 11:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Well, the belief in an evolving belief system could be a start!  Attributing your life situation to your belief system is a good way to get feedback on if your system is helping or hurting you.  Otherwise, take a piece from one ideology, and a piece from another and go from there.  :awesome:

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deranger]
    #9153611 - 10/29/08 10:51 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
All suffering is created through irrational thinking.




how do you know you're not irrational, from a more rational perspective?




If I'm not suffering, then I am rational enough to create the effect I am after.  :shrug:

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9153648 - 10/29/08 11:04 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Simply keep those filters down & stay open, thats all thats needed in any situation imo, stay open

Can you believe in something to do that? I dnt think so...
Imo the very act of believing in something keeps those filters veiling...as any belief is a rigid viewpoint, ie not open.


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
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Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9153660 - 10/29/08 11:06 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
Ladies and gentlemen, the memetic filters are down.  Convince me that I should accept your beliefs.




Ah, so sorry but I payed too much to just give my system away. In fact, it's priceless and something I couldn't replace now. You'll just have to find your own. Good luck.


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...or something






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Offlinemyriadeyes
man with a movie camera

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 358
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: Chronic7]
    #9154071 - 10/29/08 12:44 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

why does a belief system have to be rigid? isn't a true belief system only formed after examining some type of evidence? so if new evidence is proposed, your current belief system should in no way resist it, but change to incorporate it, whether that means old evidence is debunked and removed or just putting 2 and 2 together for a more unified belief system.


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If you spare a little of your imagination . . .

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OfflineThinkGreen
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Registered: 08/16/08
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Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9154097 - 10/29/08 12:51 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Existentialism/Pragmatism ftw.


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"The ubermenchen...Who has organized the chaos of his passions, given style to his character, and become creative. Aware of life's terrors, he affirms life without resentment." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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Invisiblemofo
Hobby Jingoist


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 2,232
Loc: Donkey Kong Kill Screen
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: deCypher]
    #9156726 - 10/29/08 09:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
Ah, good old Catholicism.

Some things I've never been entirely clear about: if Jesus died for our sins, does this not give me license to sin freely?




Of course you can sin freely, you have free will.  However, you will be offending God by doing so.  Jesus instructed his followers that they should keep the Commandments, and forgive the trespasses of others.  Yes, he died for our sins, and all sins can be forgiven, but if you believe in Jesus then it should follow that you will want to obey him.  Conversely, a life marked by repeated and grave sin is a sign of a lack of faith.

Quote:

And even I can't do this, couldn't I sin freely and then earnestly repent through Confession?




Technically, yes, but the key word there is earnestly.  I'm sure very few people sin with the intent that they will turn their back on God forever.  People sin in a moment of selfishness and weakness in the face of temptation.  Sometimes, this goes on for a while, years sometimes.  But for a confession to be valid, there must be some conversion of the spirit.  Ideally, this conversion will come from an overflowing of divine love, called perfect contrition.  However, sins may also be forgiven if the sinner has reached a state of imperfect contrition, despising the ugliness of the sin, fearing hell, or something of that nature.

Quote:

Is God responsible for all the evil and suffering in the world?




No, Satan is the worker of all evil.  God has willed this because he wants all to have free will.  I remember reading somewhere that angels also have free will, but that unlike us they only have one act of will, and it is irrevocable.  Therefore Satan, a fallen angel, is God's adversary forever, and can never repent.

Quote:

Am I unconditionally granted entry into heaven upon my death?  What am I required to believe/do/follow for this to happen?




No. You must still receive your personal judgment, which comes from God alone.  However, God has entrusted the care of souls to the Church, so if you continually strive to grow in faith, hope and charity throughout your life and abide by the teachings and precepts of the Church, you have no reason to doubt your salvation (although humility is always a virtue).  Oh, and you'll need to be baptized (if you haven't been already) and confirmed.

The 5 precepts of the Church:

1-Attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation, and keep those days holy.

2-Confess your sins at least once a year.

3-Receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season.

4-Observe the days of fasting and abstinence (from meat) established by the Church.

5-Help to provide for the needs of the Church.


The teachings are Biblically based and are learned in confirmation classes and by listening to the readings and homily at Mass.  The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the standard text for the teachings of the Church.

Hopefully I got all that right, that was exhausting.

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: mofo]
    #9156831 - 10/29/08 10:12 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

How about the Society of Friends?  A.K.A.  Quakers.

About two to three times a month I show up and sit with a group of folks for an hour.  It's great.  Afterwards I feel kinder and gentler all day.  I realize that I'm not perfect and that that's okay.  I also feel more tolerant of others and regard myself as a generally better person.  Better mood.  The whole nine yards.  It's essentially group meditation.

In all the literature I've read there's a heavy emphasis on the Holy Ghost versus the other two of the trinity.  Also a heavy emphasis on listening rather than talking.  But that's the literature that I've read and I haven't tried too read much.  Nothing at all is said about belief during worship service.  No sermonizing and no preaching.  Every now and then some one will get up and say something if they are moved to do so.  About as far as any dogma goes, one of the members called it something like unprogrammed worship.  And that's about as much as I've ever heard explained.  Other than the bible study I attended once, I've never heard a word mentioned of God or Jesus, satan or heaven or hell.  Or a whole host of other things that I heard of growing up in a southern baptist church.


I don't know what I believe.  But I know what I like.

EDIT--For a few weeks in a row I walked in late.  The place is a one room building from the 20's and definitely not a place where you can sneak in quietly.  I mentioned afterwards to one of the regular members about how I felt somewhat guilty about arriving late all the time.  He replied by alluding to guilt as sin and how we can't ever seem to get forget it.  From the twinkle in his eye and the laugh on his tongue it seemed as if he meant it as a criticism of the "church's" obsession with sin.  Everybody there seems non-retarded and down to earth.  It's as if they've all looked a little deeper into their faith, more so than any other congregation I've been a part.

Best of all:  It's not a fad religion.  It's been established now for the better part of 400 years.  As an organized religion it's withstood the test of time pretty well.

Edited by youbreakyoubuy (10/29/08 10:25 PM)

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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: mofo]
    #9156994 - 10/29/08 10:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mofo said:
I remember reading somewhere that angels also have free will, but that unlike us they only have one act of will, and it is irrevocable.  Therefore Satan, a fallen angel, is God's adversary forever, and can never repent.




:haha:

Why doesn't God love Satan?

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OfflineNexion
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Registered: 10/07/08
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Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: Veritas]
    #9158473 - 10/30/08 09:40 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
how do you know you're not irrational, from a more rational perspective?



You obviously didn't read thoroughly:

Quote:

Veritas said:
Suffering is a mental imposition we place upon ourselves through the idea that reality should be different than it IS.




If your rational you shouldn't need to be more rational.

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Offlinemyriadeyes
man with a movie camera

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 358
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: mofo]
    #9159080 - 10/30/08 12:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, free will doesn't exist. And as far as Satan having free will, the Bible is pretty clear he doesn't. Here's just a few verses for you:

Isaiah 45:7
"Forming light and creating darkness; making peace, and creating evil - I Jehovah do all these things."

2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And because of this, God will send to them a working of error, for them believe a lie." - He's talking about Satan being sent by God here

Satan is not an autonomous independent agent from God, he is just another angel, one who carries out God's will. But if God created evil, does that mean that God himself is evil? Paul answers this in Romans, as well as Isaiah.

Romans 9 (read all of it for a better understanding)
"What then shall we say? Is there not unrighteousness with God? Let it not be!....Yes, rather, O man, who are you answering against God? Shall the thing formed say to the One forming it, Why did You make me like this? Or does not the potter have authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make one vessel to honor, and one to dishonor?"

So why is there evil in the world? I believe it is God's grand drama. All of our human dramas are based off His archetype (I know some would say it's just life itself - same thing in my opinion) - A setting, plot, enemy, and Hero. Look at every mythology since the dawn of the world - they've been obsessed with the idea of a hero. Making a name for oneself, to be remembered, to be the man with the biggest phallic symbol, the biggest steeple, the biggest pyramids.. I think these are just perversions of the true Hero of our world who is Christ, a humble Servant who desired nothing in this world but to conquer a Lie.

All over the Bible it talks about the world being created by, for, and through Christ. If we take this to be true, then God created a world where He knew evil was going to take place and would then send His Son to save us. What's so beautiful is what Christ went through for us. He probably had it worse off than any of us ever will. Some people would say that if Jesus is God and man, then his suffering loses all value in their eyes, because it must have been easy for him being God. I agree, it was easy for Him, but if I'm drowning in a river, and someone reaches out to save me from a boat, that's like me saying "No, it's unfair, you have an advantage." You could call the advantage unfair if you want, but it's the only reason He is of any use to us. The earth truly is a place of drowning, full of sorrow and evil, and the way out is to simply ask God for a hand.

Paul says in Romans that at one point in his life, he did not know the difference between good and evil and was therefore not under judgment at that time (Ch. 7 I think?). This is the answer to all those who have never heard the doctrine of Christ - babies, those who lived prior to His coming, etc. - they will be judged only for what they know. Anyone who proclaims eternal damnation on anyone is an idiot, only God is a true Judge and I completely believe that His judgment will be far more pure, true, and just than I could ever contemplate.

Does the fact that God created evil excuse us from our sin? No, because being humans we have the ability to choose between right and wrong, we are not let off the hook - don't get the power to choose confused with free will, they aren't the same. But we are excused by our belief in Christ taking on our sin. I think someone who looks deeply into life and the Bible (if they believe what it says is true) will see free will, defined as the power to make choices unconstrained by external circumstances, is only an illusion.


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If you spare a little of your imagination . . .

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OfflineApJunkie
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Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9159092 - 10/30/08 12:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think the church of having your girlfriend give me head is probably the one you should join

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Offlinemyriadeyes
man with a movie camera

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 358
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: ApJunkie]
    #9159107 - 10/30/08 12:36 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

:yawn:


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If you spare a little of your imagination . . .

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Invisiblederanger
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: Nexion]
    #9159352 - 10/30/08 01:39 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nexion said:
Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
how do you know you're not irrational, from a more rational perspective?



You obviously didn't read thoroughly:

Quote:

Veritas said:
Suffering is a mental imposition we place upon ourselves through the idea that reality should be different than it IS.




If your rational you shouldn't need to be more rational.




yes, it was meant to be an off-topic question. 

the question came to mind, and i liked it, so i asked :laugh:

people like to think and act like their rational, jus pokin fun.

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OfflineApJunkie
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Re: So I'm in the market for a belief system... [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9159520 - 10/30/08 02:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

myriadeyes said:
:yawn:




I feel exactly the same about your bullshit religion

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