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Where does the soul reside?
    #914005 -

With all the technology of today they are becoming very efficient at mapping brain waves and thought patterns. Lie detectors are set to be fool-proof very shortly. T.V. remote controls can be controlled with just a thought now.

Suppose: It is now possible to hardwire the brain to the spine and other CNS components to transmit all the necessary information, chemical signals, and bodily commands if there was some sort of brain damage. (This doesn't seem too far fetched to me)

Now suppose: It is possible to substitute these hardwires for some sort of sensors. Much like an IR sensor in your TV remote. So now you still have a fully functioning brain with all it's capabilities but, due to brain damage the signals are being transmitted through a little bit of technological help.

Now suppose: It has been shown over and over that a heart, brain, pretty much any organ can be kept alive out of the body if put in the right conditions and environment. So if I were to take this brain out of the body and keep it alive but keep the remote sensors on it intact.........where does the soul now reside?


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #914060 -

esoterically speaking the body is wrapped in the soul... the soul beeing bigger than our physical body... and i think the soul would merely leave the body when you remove the brain and put it away, for it would see no sense living in a separated unit


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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #914072 -

In reply to:
where does the soul now reside?


The soul takes a vacation and puts the brain on auto-pilot...


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #914744 -

We have souls now?

Fuck, can I really sell it?....
I need the money to buy "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Enlightenment".


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #914769 -

Suppose: It is now possible to hardwire the brain to the spine and other CNS components to transmit all the necessary information, chemical signals, and bodily commands if there was some sort of brain damage. (This doesn't seem too far fetched to me)

The idea isn't far fetched, but the actuallity of performing such operations are still just dreams of "brain scientists". Even before such experiments could be performed, the question becomes, should we even be doing this? Have you ever played the game Deus Ex? It's about future agents being augmented with nanotechnology. Examples of nano-augmented body parts include eyes, muscles, heart, and so on. In effect we would be creating super humans.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #914848 -

Motown, in the muscial expression brought to the world through the efforts of Barry Gordy.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: In(di)go]
    #914855 -

the soul beeing bigger than our physical body

What about Marlon Brando?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chodamunky]
    #914922 -

In reply to:
The idea isn't far fetched, but the actuallity of performing such operations are still just dreams of "brain scientists". Even before such experiments could be performed, the question becomes, should we even be doing this?



it's not just a dream. they've already implanted transmitter thingies(excuse the layman's terminlogy) into a 40-year-paraplegic so that he could move his arms and feed himself. should we be doing it? if it improves the quality of life for people, of course.


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #915557 -

...and don't forget that popular medieval inquiry, "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin?," which the Grateful Dead worked into the lyrics of 'Weather Report Suite' ("...as well to count the angels...dancing on a pin..."). Even Thomas Aquinas had a holographic, holistic approach to that question - the soul in its entirety resides in every point of the body - and one might add, however 'far' the reach of soul (psyche) might be. You see, once again, psyche is not a substance. It is non-extended in space-time. It is a non-spatial reality [I don't know how many ways to put this, or how often to repeat it for those who can't grasp it].

Psyche may not be boundless, as 'spirit' (pneuma) is often described as being; but psyche (soul) seems to be able to 'know' distant events (clairvoyance), other people's thoughts (telepathy) and even future events (precognition). I have experience the latter two 'Psi' functions on several memorable occasions. Consciousness receiving psychophysical reality directly, without the intermediary sense organs.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/28/02 06:41 PM)

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #915657 -

I am just trying to be helpful here.

Perhaps you might include a glossary for the gnostically challenged.  Even though I can follow along I get the feeling that much of your truth is undecipherable by most of the members here.

Just trying to help! :smile:

Cheers, 

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #916294 -

I feel that regardless of how humans slice and dice the human body that the soul (assuming you believe in one) doesn't have to choose a place to be. It is beyond time, space, and any type of human reality. It would simply "be". It can't be pinned down to a coordinate.

As most probably know, this question is not of my own making. So for people like Markthegnostic who ask "how many times must I repeat this..." this is simply for discussion. If I find something that I feel is thought provoking I will post it. Rarely will one of my questions reflect my personal view. My later responses will reveal my hand.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #916572 -

Well, I agree with the beyond space-time 'placement' of yours, but the way in which you worded it, seemed to mean that 'the soul' is some sort of 'substance,' or 'an object.' I read an article stating that a person who had just died, weighed less than the previously living moment. No mention of involuntary loss of feces, urine, or even exhaled air and water vapor (don't know how precise the technique was). The claim was that the 'soul' weighed about 2 ounces. Now, I apologize for sounding impatient, but I still encounter people who believe the the soul is some vaporous thing that either suffuses the whole body, or dwells in the heart, or head (but not the 'liver,' which is thus called because certain Greeks considered the soul to reside there).

I guess that I am attempting (howsoever awkwardly) to create a renaissance, a revival, of a way of regarding spiritual matters. Modern people still have a need for mystery, and mystery still exists. Consciousness is the Ultimate Mystery if one is not a materialist who believes that it is created by matter - by physical, biological, chemical processes. Materialists always have a material cause for phenomenon. So, pardon my mood. I tend to believe that our mind-body (soul) is itself the organ[s] of Consciousness, not the other way around.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: ]
    #916602 -

Thanks. Your concern for others is altruistic - no ifs, ands, or buts about that. Sometimes I become impatient, but usually take time to explain. I do this kind of thing on my job, say, bereavement counseling with middle school kids (just this Friday in fact) who ask me questions about the soul. I go very slowly and try to discover what the kid's religious upbringing has been. They usually tend toward occult-level, astral/ghost kinds of understanding, not mystical (howsoever simple, like going to God or Heaven). Here, I pull out the stops and sometimes take huge winged leaps into the Great Beyond. I tend to become impatient with materialists, but need to work on that for myself. I was once a materialist, and struggled hard and long to escape the grasp of this world-view.

I might be a frustrated author, who has never attempted a book (other than my doctoral dissertation that was published by Microfilms International, but rejected by Sam Weiser and Llewelyn Press because 'it was too scholarly for their audience,' which was bullshit. Weiser published Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism upon which my dissertation was based).

On the one hand, some people follow my post, even when I get too abstract - such as yourself; on the other hand, I lose people for a number of reasons. I don't attempt to impress or confuse, but this is a philosophy & spirituality forum, and I am an educated adult who happens to be tempermentally comfortable with these types of abstractions. So, I want to communicate clearly and simply, not condescendingly.

Lots of students, in classes and out, just do not ask questions for fear of being thought dumb. Their self-esteem issues interfere with their learning. We all have to be humble to learn anything.  You probably didn't think your comment was going to result in this much wordage. Coffee on an empty stomach.  :smile: 


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #916754 -

I read an article stating that a person who had just died, weighed less than the previously living moment.

This could easily be validated. I don't suppose you have a link to this 30 y.o. urban legend? If that was the case, it would certainly give great credence that "Elvis has indeed left the building."

Using some vague recollection of some highly dubious story to bolster your position is not worthy of you Markos.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (09/29/02 04:59 PM)

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #916796 -

I enjoy your comments whatever the impetus was.  :smile:

But then again I revel in psychosexual drama. :wink:

Cheers, 

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: ]
    #917029 -

I think mark's point is this: the question is unscientific/illogical/nonsensical much as weighing newly deceased bodies to determine the weight of the soul is. the original question was : where does the soul reside. then he changes his mind and says the soul can't be pinned down to a time/space coordinate. the whole dialogue is actually gibberish. i personally lean toward the materialist view point that consciousness is a manifestation of physical processes. it seems relevant to point out that physical does not imply atomistic. for those of you who disagree i ask: where then does the soul reside if it is not merely the gestalt of various physical processes?


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #917395 -

isnt it interresting how physical technology attempts to mirror the soul's state of being. watch how humanity tries to do their way into a state of being with technology and thusly watch how are technology destroys our society because of our spiritual ignorance.

To accel/succeed as transcended society there must be a balance.

end of transmission*


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "



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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #917655 -

Lean as you will. The soul may reside outside the space/time continuum. Some philosophers think that and so do I.

If the said consciousness is only a manifestaion of physical processes why do we suspect otherwise?

Please explain the relevance that physical does not imply atomistic. Use small words. They denote understanding.

Thank you.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #917666 -

Vaporbrains, you should really go back and re-read all the threads. Never once did I state that the original post was my point of view. In fact I made this explicitly clear in one of the previous threads.

You say this question is unscientific.....surely you gest. Go read up on some of the current literature and find where the research is leading. Neurotransmitters, biochemical components, brain waves and patterns are all being successfully manipulated as we speak. It probably sounds like gibberish to you because you have neither the capacity nor the inclination to learn more about the subject.

May temperance and common sense find you. Peace friend.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #917674 -

Think

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #917705 -

I've never entirely believed I had a soul. I really do feel more like a mass of genetic muscle, with no real reason for being here. Memories aren't even really memories. They're more like facts that I use to piece together things. Not really remembering a scenario, more recreating it like a play from memory....

but thats just me... how do you feel in the morning?

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #917877 -

BTW...The Arabic author who most influenced Western alchemy was Jabir ibn Hayyan (b. 721). He followed Aristotle; was highly mathematical; and was quite difficult to understand by most. His name is sometimes rendered 'Geber,' and difficult, esoteric works were often referred to as 'Geberish,' which now comes down to the word you used - "gibberish." Jabir gave significant practical (chemical) knowledge to the world as well as important mystical (alchemical) concepts. But, then again, it's only a word.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/29/02 09:32 PM)

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: ]
    #919083 -

first let me say: "HAHAHAHA." ok..now...

it isn't scientific despite all your talk of neurotransmitters and brainwaves. it'sa philosophical question. please provide me with one single research study with the hypothesis "the soul does/doesn't exist" or "the soul is/isn't material." science has no interest in things it can't measure and the "soul" isn't a measurable entitiy.

mr mushrooms: i'm afraid that simply isn't germane, mon frere. Also: if the soul exists outside of the space/time continuum then what qualities does it have? are these qualities knowable? the existence/nonexistence of the soul seems to me to be about as disprovable as the existence of god. it also seems like a meaningless question. how do you define your soul? is it basically you, your personality? or is it just some sort of "consiousness" without features that only takes shape when channeled through a body? if you claim that the soul is anything but absolutely me, and everything i am as a mental entity then i could care less if "it" exists, because i'll be dead.

physical does not imply atomistic: i merely point out that the physical need not be broken down into individual units. Bohm's (i think it is) demonstration of ink drops materializing and dematerializing in glycerin is a good example of this idea. the ink is distributed through out the glycerin. when the glycerin is spun backwards the ink forms up into little drops (atoms).


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.

Edited by vaporbrains (09/30/02 08:58 AM)

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #919091 -

interesting etymology. i'll have to cut and paste that whenever i encounter the word in the future.


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #919236 -

The old vapor brains was a dud.  I am increasingly impressed by your thought.  Your last post to me is a case in point.  You can think.  I like that. :smile:

it isn't scientific despite all your talk of neurotransmitters and brainwaves. it'sa philosophical question. please provide me with one single research study with the hypothesis "the soul does/doesn't exist" or "the soul is/isn't material." science has no interest in things it can't measure and the "soul" isn't a measurable entitiy.

Indeed.

mr mushrooms: i'm afraid that simply isn't germane, mon frere. Also: if the soul exists outside of the space/time continuum then what qualities does it have? are these qualities knowable? the existence/nonexistence of the soul seems to me to be about as disprovable as the existence of god. it also seems like a meaningless question. how do you define your soul? is it basically you, your personality? or is it just some sort of "consiousness" without features that only takes shape when channeled through a body? if you claim that the soul is anything but absolutely me, and everything i am as a mental entity then i could care less if "it" exists, because i'll be dead.

Germane to what?

I am referring to the immateriality aspect of the mind which I translate as 'soul' (pneuma).  More properly it should be called the spirit (psyche), which is eternal.

You didn't address my comment about atomistic.  Would you please comment on it.

Cheers, 

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: ]
    #919985 -

Er, um, ahem... psyche=soul [and butterfly]; spirit=pneuma [as in pneumatic, pneumonia, i.e., 'airy'].


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #920126 -

i edited my post to include some babbling about atomistic. let me beat off these radioactive small-pox infected rats and i'll get back to you on the rest.


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #920213 -

I knew we'd come to blows over this one.  I understand your point but I view the trichotomy differently.  Psyche also means spirit as in no breath.  Soul refers to breath which is the component of living in the body.

Body

Soul

Spirit

Only one is eternal. :smile:

Cheers,

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: ]
    #920232 -

You're weird.  :smile:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #920244 -

we all are!


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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #920247 -

Next question:

:ooo: :mad: :cool: :smile: :frown: :blush: :crazy: :laugh: :shocked: :smirk: :confused:

Which one of these icons is responsible for the heist?  Do you recognize any of them?

Thank you, I am gald, yes gald, that you noticed.

You have great ackumen. :smile: <---- it wasn't him.

Cheers, 

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: ]
    #920255 -

it was him -------------> :mad:
i rememeber that night... it was dark... and raining... i was on my way home from work when i passed this alley... *shivers* NO! i don't want to talk about it... it's too much! aarrrrggggh


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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: In(di)go]
    #920259 -

[scribbles detective-like notes in a big black book]

Are you sure?

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: ]
    #920292 -

*starts crying*
yes officer! it was so horrible... i could never forget that face! it ruined every single of my posts... don't you see the evil in his face? are you sure he can't see throuh this glass? i feel he is looking at me... straight into my eyes
*runs and hides behind mr_mushrooms* ... what are you going to do to him?


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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: In(di)go]
    #920311 -

This man has been wanted for major felonies in every state!  But, since the law of the universe is love and we don't want to make him feel bad, I'm going to suggest that he switch to de-caff and let him go.

That way I'll feel better about myself. :smile:

Stop that trembling.  I'm sure he meant well.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: ]
    #920318 -

well... actually i must admit he helps me in my posts every once in a while... but i still kind of dislike him... he has a bad vibration about him... but i guess that can't be helped, after all he's just expressing his feelings...  :grin:


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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: In(di)go]
    #920328 -

:wink:

^^^ I have something in my eye.  Can you see it?

Cheers, 

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: ]
    #920349 -

not if you keep it closed!  :grin:


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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #920768 -

im surprised nobody has said this yet.
the pineal gland in the brain. the source of dmt in the brain.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: chemkid]
    #920776 -

also, i herd that there were studys done that shows a fetus gains consciusness when dmt is transferred from the mothers brain to the fetus' brain triggering consciousness.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: Where does the soul reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #920880 -

if the soul is made out of something, it'd suck ending up in a blackhole

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