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Offlineiamsmooth
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Registered: 08/17/08
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Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE?
    #9135172 - 10/26/08 02:50 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Right now, I have it incubating in the cupboard above my fridge which is roughly 80-82 degrees F. However, I thought that maybe the air would get stale. Does this require FAE? Should I leave one of the cupboard doors slightly open?

Also, secondary question:

Do you guys believe in casing straight coir? I've read a lot of people do it, but I think I saw a few trusted cultivators say that coir fruits better uncased. Just wanted to know some of your opinions.

Thanks!


Edited by iamsmooth (10/26/08 02:50 AM)


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Invisibleseven
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: iamsmooth]
    #9135293 - 10/26/08 04:03 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

no fae. keep bulk substrates covered while theY colonize. this builds up CO2. some people cover with foil>poke holes in the foil and cover them with micropore tape. these holes are for gas exchange. letting go of excess CO2 ect.: you do not want fae during colonization because fae is a pining trigger. you can confuse the mycelium . it would stop growing because it got to much air and goes into fruiting mode so to speak. controling fae and introducing it at fullcolonization is the number one trigger for fruiting.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: iamsmooth]
    #9135597 - 10/26/08 06:49 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

All any kind of incubation needs is Gas exchange. That is a few holes that will allow excess CO2 to escape.
FAE is for when you want to induce pinning as it is a very important trigger.

Is the substrate wrapped in anything? It should be to avoid moisture loss. Just make a few holes in the wrapping and if the cupboard is very airtight open it up once a day and fan it to freshen up the air.
You won't need any more than that for incubation.

RE casing your coir or not, what we know for sure is that coir does fruit well uncased as it has good water retaining properties. Other substrates (such as rye) will fruit very poorly without a casing as they don't retain water.

In my opinion, your success at getting good flushes from cased vs uncased coir depend more on your skills as a cultivator (getting the triggers and conditions right) than on the fact that there is a casing or not.
Only once you can get absolutely perfect at producing ideal flushes will you see any noticeable differences between the two methods.

My advice is to choose which one to do and work hard to get everything right. Once you have mastered that method try the other one and see what you come up with.


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Invisibleseven
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: Nibin]
    #9135877 - 10/26/08 10:27 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

note: you dont want to fruit grains alone without a casing layer. Grains shouldnt be left exposed to fruit, because contams will set in. So grains alone should get a casing layer. if mixing grain spawn into bulk make sure to make the last layer only pasturized bulk material as to cover all exposed grain spawn. Now if you arre using grain spawn mixed into bulk it can be fruited without a casing. Your success in this will depend on how well you keep growth conditions as stated above.


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InvisibleShr00mZ
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: seven]
    #9135919 - 10/26/08 10:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If you have holes with polyfil, let the sub colonize on its own. If it starts to stall, air it out. If you have no holes in your container. Air it out once a day. Myc needs CO2 build up. But not too much. Once your through ur first 7 days, and its over 3/4 colonized the colonizing process will slow, start giving it more oxygen. Spray room with lysol then fan it out. I fanned out a tub twice one day, then let it sit for 2 days without being touched, and it took off. When I fanned the tub it was 75% colonized, when I looked at it again after being sealed it was 95%.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: seven]
    #9135926 - 10/26/08 10:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

seven said:
note: you dont want to fruit grains alone without a casing layer. Grains shouldnt be left exposed to fruit, because contams will set in. So grains alone should get a casing layer. if mixing grain spawn into bulk make sure to make the last layer only pasturized bulk material as to cover all exposed grain spawn. Now if you arre using grain spawn mixed into bulk it can be fruited without a casing. Your success in this will depend on how well you keep growth conditions as stated above.




rubbish. molst grains fruit fine without a casing layer (except for wbs and other grians that dnt hold much moisture). casing is not a contamination barrier. a casing layer iss there as a moisture reserve and to create a microclimate to stimulat pining.                                     
if you spawned to coir you can fruit uncased. coir can hold plenty of moisture. keep your humidity high (95%+) fae and bright light in the daylight range they will perform well. dont forget to mist before fanning too.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #9135990 - 10/26/08 11:37 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yep. the reason grain fruits badly or not at all is that it does not hold much moisture.

Only uncolonized grains are a significant contaminant risk as healthy mycelium can fight off most competing organisms one it is well established.


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Invisibleseven
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #9136731 - 10/26/08 03:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:
Quote:

seven said:
note: you dont want to fruit grains alone without a casing layer. Grains shouldnt be left exposed to fruit, because contams will set in. So grains alone should get a casing layer. if mixing grain spawn into bulk make sure to make the last layer only pasturized bulk material as to cover all exposed grain spawn. Now if you arre using grain spawn mixed into bulk it can be fruited without a casing. Your success in this will depend on how well you keep growth conditions as stated above.




rubbish. molst grains fruit fine without a casing layer (except for wbs and other grians that dnt hold much moisture). casing is not a contamination barrier. a casing layer iss there as a moisture reserve and to create a microclimate to stimulat pining.                                     
if you spawned to coir you can fruit uncased. coir can hold plenty of moisture. keep your humidity high (95%+) fae and bright light in the daylight range they will perform well. dont forget to mist before fanning too.


tis not rubbish. yes a casing layer is to hold moisture. but you would run higher risks of contams tring to fruit straight grains. uncased.you dont want exposed grain


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Offlineiamsmooth
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: seven]
    #9136747 - 10/26/08 03:41 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I mixed about 75% of my jar of grains into the coir, then after it was mixed all nicely, I layered my remaining grains on the top and spread it out evenly. Then, I covered with alcohol wiped foil, poked holes and covered holes with micropore. Now it's incubating :laugh:


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: seven]
    #9136753 - 10/26/08 03:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

seven said:
Quote:

veda_sticks said:
Quote:

seven said:
note: you dont want to fruit grains alone without a casing layer. Grains shouldnt be left exposed to fruit, because contams will set in. So grains alone should get a casing layer. if mixing grain spawn into bulk make sure to make the last layer only pasturized bulk material as to cover all exposed grain spawn. Now if you arre using grain spawn mixed into bulk it can be fruited without a casing. Your success in this will depend on how well you keep growth conditions as stated above.




rubbish. molst grains fruit fine without a casing layer (except for wbs and other grians that dnt hold much moisture). casing is not a contamination barrier. a casing layer iss there as a moisture reserve and to create a microclimate to stimulat pining.                                     
if you spawned to coir you can fruit uncased. coir can hold plenty of moisture. keep your humidity high (95%+) fae and bright light in the daylight range they will perform well. dont forget to mist before fanning too.


tis not rubbish. yes a casing layer is to hold moisture. but you would run higher risks of contams tring to fruit straight grains. uncased.you dont want exposed grain




You don't want exposed UNCOLONIZED grain. A PF cake is only verm and grain (rice) flour and it doesn't contaminate easily (we fruit them uncased all the time)

It's the uncolonized stuff that is a problem. A fully colonized block of grain is very resistant to contaminations.


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Invisibleseven
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: Nibin]
    #9136813 - 10/26/08 03:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

grains have lots of nutes have been sterilized> any sterilized growth medium is very inviting to contams>banging the grain jars around breaks up the mycelium and weakens it, and exposes parts of the grain. seems logical to me, not to have this as a top layer. or am i off point here?


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: seven]
    #9136836 - 10/26/08 03:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Technically the inside of the grain is also colonized and so, safe.

On the other hand, if that grain dries out and the mycelium dies, then gets wet again, you are looking at a lot of trouble. This would be the reason why RR recommends not putting any grain spawn on the edges of an Oyster straw laundry basket.

I have read many posts of people who use the top layer and loads that don't and neither seem to have any problems.

It would be interesting to do a comparative study...


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Offlineiamsmooth
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: Nibin]
    #9136849 - 10/26/08 04:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It's probably one of those things in mycology that's very opinionated. Some people say leaving it exposed at the top is asking for trouble, while others say it'll help colonize the top layer first, therefore making it safer.


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Invisibleseven
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Re: Does an incubating bulk substrate need FAE? [Re: iamsmooth]
    #9136867 - 10/26/08 04:06 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

iamsmooth said:
It's probably one of those things in mycology that's very opinionated. Some people say leaving it exposed at the top is asking for trouble, while others say it'll help colonize the top layer first, therefore making it safer.


:thumbup: i lean with the ones who advise against the layer of exposed grains. just seems more logical to me.


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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate, Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Amazon ½ Pint Jars, Coir, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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