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Jean-Luc Picard
I only wish i was this good!
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,230
Loc: New Mexico, USA
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: djblackout]
#9118533 - 10/22/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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you might notice a difference...but i can get crazy trips off 3g dried and mine will last much longer.
-------------------- The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT
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POWAtrippin
Decidedly Undecided.
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 2,207
Loc: zone 9b
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: POWAtrippin]
#9118547 - 10/22/08 09:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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On the other hand I have been drinking arrogant bastard ale so I could be completely confused.
-------------------- Don't believe everything you think. TRADE LIST ‹Sell Your Soul› You know this place is owned and operated by the Illuminati, right? ‹lsdwithme› i possibly just smoked a rat turd
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djblackout
supreme scratch masta
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: djblackout]
#9118548 - 10/22/08 09:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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i plan on getting a food dehydrator. but right now ive just been fan drying them on a paper towel and then when the fan isnt on them they are inside a wooden dresser. they dry up pretty well
-------------------- I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You
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noobieshroomie
Back again
Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 12,769
Loc: Not Too Sure
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: POWAtrippin]
#9118572 - 10/22/08 10:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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if psilocybin is an inactive chemical why is it illegal?
-noobie-
-------------------- AMU Best Thread Ever CapZilla said: not sure what GE and FAE are but i should probably get some. Citric said: Your signature is wrong on colonization temps! GOOD JUDGMENT COMES FROM EXPERIENCE EXPERIENCE COMES FROM BAD JUDGMENT ROOM TEMP 70-75 IS BEST FOR COLONIZATION Thank you mycochef
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J3illy
Trainee
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Because once it's in your stomach it's converted to psilocin, which is active.. They're basically the same exact molecule - w/ psilocybin just having 1 small addition to it..
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POWAtrippin
Decidedly Undecided.
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 2,207
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Uhm look up the federal analog act, also it breaks down into something psychoactive. You can have sugar and be charged as having cocaine if you say it is cocaine. Our government is screwed up for sure.
-------------------- Don't believe everything you think. TRADE LIST ‹Sell Your Soul› You know this place is owned and operated by the Illuminati, right? ‹lsdwithme› i possibly just smoked a rat turd
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ntropic mind
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: J3illy]
#9118610 - 10/22/08 10:06 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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psilocin (4-HO-DMT) is the more stable compound and is reputed to be the active compound and is more abundant in FRESH mushrooms. 4-PO-DMT is reputedly more stable.
Degredation happens with the 4-AcO tryptamines and 4-HO tryptamines. The 4-AcO tryptamines are metabolized in the body to their 4-HO counterparts, which is why the 4-AcO compounds require a slightly higher dosage, and tend to take 15-20 minutes longer for a full come up than the 4-HO's. But for this same reason, it as wiser to purchase the 4-AcO variety of a tryptamine, if given the chance, because they store better. If you've got a bag of 4-AcO-tryp that you want to keep for a while, it will initially degrade into the 4-HO version which is still active. However, the 4-HO compound will merely loose potency and change color/consistency.
but people keep getting confused throughout this thread about what degrades into what and what chemicals in the shrooms when. remember, fresh shrooms = more psilocybin; dried shrooms = greater psilocin:psilocybin ratio, this ratio will vary depending on drying method. any method that exposes the mushrooms to more energy or air will convert more of the 'cybin into psilocin - such as oven/dehydrator/fan/air drying. what would be the optimal environment would be in a sealed container in a dark, cool place using some kind of desiccant - like silica gel. this minimizes all energy/oxygen exposure the shrooms recieve, you can even add a few oxygen absorber packs in the container. doing this will help maintain the potency of your shrooms that much more, because 4-PO follows the same rules as 4-AcO-tryps in terms of storage life.
I'm also skeptical that these compounds aren't slightly different in their effects. I've sampled 4-AcO-DMT and it is substantially different than a mushroom experience. There's definitely a similarity in feel, but there's also a notable difference.
-------------------- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
Edited by ntropic mind (10/23/08 07:49 AM)
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J3illy
Trainee
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: ntropic mind]
#9118615 - 10/22/08 10:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ntropic mind said: psilocin (4-HO-DMT) is the more stable compound
This is incorrect - psilocybin is the more stable compound.
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noobieshroomie
Back again
Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 12,769
Loc: Not Too Sure
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: POWAtrippin]
#9118623 - 10/22/08 10:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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ok thats what i thought they basicly make the chemical reaction illegal but your body does that naturaly so anything with those chemicals in them is against the law
-noobie-
-------------------- AMU Best Thread Ever CapZilla said: not sure what GE and FAE are but i should probably get some. Citric said: Your signature is wrong on colonization temps! GOOD JUDGMENT COMES FROM EXPERIENCE EXPERIENCE COMES FROM BAD JUDGMENT ROOM TEMP 70-75 IS BEST FOR COLONIZATION Thank you mycochef
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ntropic mind
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: ntropic mind]
#9118632 - 10/22/08 10:10 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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psilocin (4-HO-DMT)
psilocybin (4-PO-DMT)
-------------------- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
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djblackout
supreme scratch masta
Registered: 05/03/08
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thanks everyone for the insight. I was really curious as to what makes them different.
now i know, and knowings half the battle
-------------------- I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You
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ntropic mind
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Quote:
noobieshroomie said: ok thats what i thought they basicly make the chemical reaction illegal but your body does that naturaly so anything with those chemicals in them is against the law
-noobie-
same thing with DMT, it's in almost literally everything that's alive. Nearly all plants make it, all mammals make it (yes, you too), many many fish make it, and the list goes on...
it's non-addictive, non-toxic, doesn't produce tolerance, and evokes life-changing experiences...what a threat to public welfare.
-------------------- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
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POWAtrippin
Decidedly Undecided.
Registered: 10/22/08
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From WIKIPEDIA
Psilocin is relatively unstable in solution due to its phenolic hydroxy (-OH) group. In the presence of oxygen it readily forms bluish and dark black degradation products. Similar products are also formed under acidic conditions in the presence of oxygen
Psilocybin (O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine) is a prodrug that is converted into the pharmacologically active compound psilocin in the body by dephosphorylation.[2] This chemical reaction takes place under strongly acidic conditions or enzymatically by phosphatases in the body. Psilocybin is a zwitterionic alkaloid that is soluble in water, moderately soluble in methanol and ethanol, and insoluble in most organic solvents.
However I doubt that your mushrooms have abunch of circulating air in them which is why I doubt psilocin will degrade much if handled correctly. Also you will notice it says it degrades easily in solution. So does LSD but Crystalin LSD will not degrade if you keep it away from light, heat and air. LSD i feel is a much easier thing to break and I have had tabs from the 70s that were still good.
-------------------- Don't believe everything you think. TRADE LIST ‹Sell Your Soul› You know this place is owned and operated by the Illuminati, right? ‹lsdwithme› i possibly just smoked a rat turd
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ntropic mind
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: J3illy]
#9118684 - 10/22/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
J3illy said:
Quote:
ntropic mind said: psilocin (4-HO-DMT) is the more stable compound
This is incorrect - psilocybin is the more stable compound.
damn, right you are! I stand corrected, good sir. Three shrooms for you!
here's a quote from TiHKAL entry #18 (psilocin/psilocybin): (extensions and commentary) "The older samples may be reasonably free of the rather unstable psilocin, but psilocybin is much more stable and may persist"
-------------------- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
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Loc: The North
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: djblackout]
#9118698 - 10/22/08 10:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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ntropic: don't those chemical charts show that psilocybin is the chemical that brakes down to become psilocin. Just look at them it's pretty obvious psilocin is psilocybin with the phosphate group removed and replaced with what I believe is a hydrogen atom.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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POWAtrippin
Decidedly Undecided.
Registered: 10/22/08
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: ntropic mind]
#9118757 - 10/22/08 10:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you were to break a mushroom in half right now and squeeze them both good and hard but droped one into a glove box and left one out to sit on the desk I bet you one would bruise blue more than the other proving what I am saying here.
Was sasha eating mushooms or was he manufacturing the psilocybin/ psilocin himself? This would make a huge difference as an old sample of some psilocin in purely chemical would be extremely exposed to air in relation to how much air a mushrooms inner tissue experience.
-------------------- Don't believe everything you think. TRADE LIST ‹Sell Your Soul› You know this place is owned and operated by the Illuminati, right? ‹lsdwithme› i possibly just smoked a rat turd
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POWAtrippin
Decidedly Undecided.
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: POWAtrippin]
#9118953 - 10/22/08 10:58 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe my background in organic chemistry is slipping past my finger tips.
-------------------- Don't believe everything you think. TRADE LIST ‹Sell Your Soul› You know this place is owned and operated by the Illuminati, right? ‹lsdwithme› i possibly just smoked a rat turd
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omu_negru
rookie
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: POWAtrippin]
#9119134 - 10/22/08 11:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I cant belive how much nonsense im reading in this thread.... For the last time....psilocin degrades when exposed to oxigen , Psilocybin doesnt and transformes into psilocin IN VITRO. None of them transform int each other by being exposed t oxigen. Pls stop feeding bullshit to ppl reading this thread.
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ntropic mind
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: omu_negru]
#9120100 - 10/23/08 07:53 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I went back and corrected some of my post because of my error, but I believe its pretty correct. But maybe you could explain to me why 4-acetoxy-tryps degrade into their 4-HO counterparts while 4-phosphorloxy-DMT does not, apparently its some kind of exception to the rule?
Quote:
ntropic: don't those chemical charts show that psilocybin is the chemical that brakes down to become psilocin. Just look at them it's pretty obvious psilocin is psilocybin with the phosphate group removed and replaced with what I believe is a hydrogen atom.
isn't that what I said? 4-PO-DMT loses its phosphorous group and leaves the OH to become 4-HO-DMT.
check out this link: 4-AcO-DET degredation
-------------------- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
Edited by ntropic mind (10/23/08 07:54 AM)
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dead
grateful
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Re: psilocin and psilocybin [Re: ntropic mind]
#9120132 - 10/23/08 08:12 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd very much like to see the evidence for the claim that psilocybin is inactive before conversion to psilocin. AFAIK The exposed hydroxy group is in no way required for receptor binding.
I strongly believe psilocybin and psilocin have subtly different effect profiles. Molecules are like that, sometimes adding just one atom to a molecule changes it's effects drastically, and psilocybin has a whole functional group added to it...
-------------------- "The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows." Links: Nibin's Guide for Noobs some easy teks on bulk & grain prep. (my journal)
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