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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9114573 - 10/22/08 11:04 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"I think Obama knows he's losing in Pennsylvania." because he's been giving a lot of attention to a state the Republicans have not won in over 20 years.

thats just my gut feeling, we will know the reality in a few more days.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9114575 - 10/22/08 11:06 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

And i never claimed an Obama adviser said that....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9114580 - 10/22/08 11:09 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

So it takes claiming a campaign official said so to make it sad? I see pathetic things everyday that is entirely irrelevant to whether a campaign official said so.


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9114584 - 10/22/08 11:11 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Man Lonestar, you gotta know that you sound as nutty as I do when I'm trying to convince people that the Cubs could actually win the world series. But I got to thank you, because there'd hardly be any action here without ya.

You know guys, IF McCain wins (he won't) we're gonna hear about it forever :sad:


--------------------
A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9114594 - 10/22/08 11:15 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

you make "no sense"....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Ferris]
    #9114654 - 10/22/08 11:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
I can explain Iowa away as a state they want to build momentum in next for next election




And McCain telling corn producers he opposes ethanol subsidies does not help him in that state...


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9114667 - 10/22/08 11:40 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:

What are you talking about? Mcbush flip flopped on that.

"I support ethanol and I think it is a vital, a vital alternative energy source not only because of our dependency on foreign oil but its greenhouse gas reduction effects," he said in an August speech in Grinnell, Iowa, as reported by the Associated Press.


http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/11/13/8393132/index.htm


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9114696 - 10/22/08 11:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pinkfloydms said:
:lol:

What are you talking about? Mcbush flip flopped on that.

"I support ethanol and I think it is a vital, a vital alternative energy source not only because of our dependency on foreign oil but its greenhouse gas reduction effects," he said in an August speech in Grinnell, Iowa, as reported by the Associated Press.


http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/11/13/8393132/index.htm




That link is old (2006) and in 2008 McCain still opposes subsidies for domestic ethanol production.

McCain opposes subsidies for domestic ethanol production.

"I oppose subsidies. Not just ethanol subsidies. Subsidies," McCain told an audience in Ames, Iowa.

While the ethanol subsidies Obama supports play well in the corn-growing states of the Midwest, corn-based biofuels have been criticized for the environmental impacts of growing corn, and the potential to drive up the price of food."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008290765_presenviro21m.html


Yesterday McCain said: that unlike Obama, he opposed subsidies for ethanol.


http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN1535588620081021


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9114703 - 10/22/08 11:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The only subsidies he wants are the ones involved in purchasing and refinancing home mortgages.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9114740 - 10/22/08 12:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

yup, :sad:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9114757 - 10/22/08 12:22 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

McCain still flipped on his stance, and he did it only to gain votes. IMO he should have kept his first stance. Ethanol is a joke.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:


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Offlinesupernovasky
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9114770 - 10/22/08 12:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

How the hell did this turn into a subsidies fight?

Anyway, new poll in PA!

Pennsylvania Morning Call Obama 52, McCain 41 Obama +11

Some fun internals:

Q4.. Sarah Palin

    FAVORABLE........................  40 %
    UNFAVORABLE................... 45%
    NEUTRAL/NOT SURE.........  15%
    HAVEN'T HEARD OF HER... 0%

Q12.  Next I would like to ask some questions about the presidential campaigns. In
general would you say John McCain's presidential campaign has been more positive or
more negative?

MORE POSITIVE..............................................  24%
MORE NEGATIVE............................................  53%
EQUAL NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE (VOL)............  20%
NOT SURE (VOL).............................................  4%

Q13.  In general would you say Barack Obama's presidential campaign has been more
positive or more negative?

MORE POSITIVE..............................................  45%
MORE NEGATIVE............................................  28%
EQUAL NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE (VOL)............  22%
NOT SURE (VOL).............................................    5%

Q14.  Regardless of who you may support, who do you think has a better personality and
temperament to be president, Obama or McCain?

OBAMA............................................................ 52%
McCAIN............................................................ 30%
BOTH EQUAL(VOL)  ............................................13%
NOT SURE (VOL).................................................  5%

Q15. Regardless of who you may support, who do you think would work better with both
Democrats and Republicans in Congress, Obama or McCain?

OBAMA............................................................ 41%
McCAIN............................................................ 38%
BOTH EQUAL(VOL)  ............................................15%
NOT SURE (VOL).................................................  6%


This is the 4th poll in 2 weeks that has Obama at +10 or more. The only one that didn't had Obama at +8. You really want us to believe that McCain truly thinks he has a shot in PA? The ONLY reason he is fighting for PA, is because he has nothing left to fight for. If he loses PA, he loses the election.


--------------------
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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9115185 - 10/22/08 01:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
"I oppose subsidies. Not just ethanol subsidies. Subsidies," McCain told an audience in Ames, Iowa.




I have to side with McCain on this one.  I'm not sure though if he means corn-based ethanol subsidies or ALL ethanol subsidies.  Because any sane person would oppose the corn ones with the scientific data we have now, which is where most of that money goes.

Also, something tells me that most of the people in that audience assumed that their other food and farm and federal grazing land subsidies were safe when McCain generalized there.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Ferris]
    #9116933 - 10/22/08 06:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You people should remember that Obama has constantly polled higher than his actual numbers on election day. This was evident in nearly all of the primaries in which he ran against Hillary Clinton.

I don't think the Obama campaign is feeling their lead is safe for that reason, hence the extra campaigning.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9116971 - 10/22/08 06:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think it will hold true inter-party.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Ferris]
    #9116999 - 10/22/08 07:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think it will likely be more pronounced.

If there were numerous Democrats who stated their intent to vote for him in polls but then couldn't bring themselves to pull the trigger in the booth, I imagine there will be even more people doing so when you include Republicans, since everyone knows they are racists and bigots.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9117055 - 10/22/08 07:12 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

No, the way I see it is they were given two fairly even choices in the primary, and they went for the conservative, known choice of the two.  Inter-party, we're talking wide, wide ideological differences.  They didn't vote against Obama in the primaries, they voted FOR someone in their own party.

I'm not saying that the Heisenberg uncertainty principle doesn't still apply to some extent, but I refuse to believe that it's making more than a couple people cross party lines.


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Offlinesupernovasky
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Ferris]
    #9119650 - 10/23/08 04:06 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

You people should remember that Obama has constantly polled higher than his actual numbers on election day. This was evident in nearly all of the primaries in which he ran against Hillary Clinton.




This isn't exactly true, especially in the battleground states:

Michigan:
Final Results -- -- 55.4 39.9 Clinton +15.5
RCP Average 01/06 - 01/14 -- 54.0 30.5 Clinton +23.5

South carolina:
Final Results -- -- 55.4 26.5 17.6 Obama +28.9
RCP Average 01/15 - 01/25 -- 38.4 26.8 19.2 Obama +11.6

Florida:
Poll Date Sample Clinton Obama Edwards Spread
Final Results -- -- 49.7 33.0 14.4 Clinton +16.7
RCP Average 01/22 - 01/28 -- 48.4 28.8 14.2 Clinton +19.6

Georgia:
Final Results -- -- 66.4 31.1 Obama +35.3
RCP Average 02/01 - 02/04 -- 50.3 32.3 Obama +18.0

Missouri:
Final Results -- -- 47.9 49.2 Obama +1.3
RCP Average 01/30 - 02/04 -- 47.5 41.8 Clinton +5.7

Virginia:
Final Results -- -- 63.6 35.4 Obama +28.2
RCP Average 02/06 - 02/10 -- 55.0 37.3 Obama +17.7

Wisconisn:
Final Results -- -- 58.1 40.7 Obama +17.4
RCP Average 02/08 - 02/14 -- 46.3 42.0 Obama +4.3

North Carolina:
Final Results -- -- 56.2 41.5 Obama +14.7
RCP Average 04/28 - 05/05 -- 50.0 42.0 Obama +8.0

Indiana:
Final Results -- -- 50.7 49.3 Clinton +1.4
RCP Average 05/02 - 05/05 -- 49.0 44.0 Clinton +5.0

Oregon:
Final Results -- -- 58.2 40.6 Obama +17.6
RCP Average 05/08 - 05/18 -- 52.2 40.2 Obama +12.0


So yeah... That kind of demolishes that argument.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: supernovasky]
    #9120150 - 10/23/08 10:22 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You should look at the aggregate polling versus actual aggregate voter proportion to see if you're right.


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Offlinesupernovasky
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Re: Leaked Obama Internals Show Him Within Margin in Pennsylvania? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9120183 - 10/23/08 10:34 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sorry, I might be a bit confused, but anyhow, what I've shown is that the RCP average of all polls actually LAGS Obama's performance in nearly every battleground state.

By the way, let me put this "leaked internals" theory to rest... Tons of new polls today.

Pennsylvania Big10 Battleground Obama 52, McCain 41 Obama +11
Pennsylvania Morning Call Obama 52, McCain 42 Obama +10
Pennsylvania Quinnipiac Obama 53, McCain 40 Obama +13


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