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OfflineIcAnFeeLthErain
How ya like your Chang's Sauce?
Male


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 331
Loc: Bright Side of the Road
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: Shroomism]
    #9099536 - 10/19/08 11:00 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I agree 100%.  But Shroomism this solution only solves one general problem.  If we enact your policy how will we cope with the masses of drug abusers who need expensive health care and foster families to raise their children once their addictions take hold to the point that they no longer care to raise their children or for the least bit work.

Of course the big evil drug lords would cease to exist, but would you trade 100 drug lords for 1,000,000 displaced people who would rather steal and kill for money to buy their drug?


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"We are here to awaken from the illusion of our separateness" -Thich Nhat Hanh

Take your sweet time, everything is a once in a life time experience.

Cakes?  No Thanks.

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Posts: 10,207
Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: IcAnFeeLthErain]
    #9099592 - 10/19/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Read the legalize methamphetamine link I posted. It lays out the reasoning very clearly. There's more benefits than just eliminating the black market.

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InvisibleBridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
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Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: Ferris]
    #9099607 - 10/19/08 11:24 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Quote:

Ferris said:
How much for the little girl?

How much for the women?  I want your women









SELL ME YOUR CHILDREN


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OfflineIcAnFeeLthErain
How ya like your Chang's Sauce?
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Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 331
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Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9099769 - 10/19/08 12:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't contest that there would not be other benefits to pure legalization of these substances.  I just insisted that this solution would only directly solve one issue.  Other good things would be possible after removing wasted resources on the war on drugs.  I agree the benefits would be significant, but so would the consequences.


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"We are here to awaken from the illusion of our separateness" -Thich Nhat Hanh

Take your sweet time, everything is a once in a life time experience.

Cakes?  No Thanks.

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Posts: 10,207
Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: IcAnFeeLthErain]
    #9099814 - 10/19/08 12:24 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think it's hard to make the argument that the negative consequences outweigh the benefits.  All of the negative consequences are already in place, and there's no reason to expect that they would worsen.

For example, you mention:
Quote:

If we enact your policy how will we cope with the masses of drug abusers who need expensive health care and foster families to raise their children once their addictions take hold to the point that they no longer care to raise their children or for the least bit work.




Aren't we already dealing with that? Drug abusers exist. People who previously avoided hard drugs aren't going to become tweakers just because meth is legalized. That's not a new consequence, therefore even the slightest shred of a benefit outweighs that "negative consequence" (which is really an aspect of the status quo)

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Offlinesupra
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
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Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: IcAnFeeLthErain]
    #9099821 - 10/19/08 12:28 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, at first it would be bad, very bad.  As lots of people would be come addicted, and have problems with it.  This, however would subside after a generation or 2.  I mean, alcohol is legal, and not everybody is an alcoholic.  this is because, even though it is legal, not everyone is going to use it.  If meth were legal, i still wouldn't touch the stuff.  After a few years of many people with problems, it would level back out to how alcohol is today, sure there are people that have problems, there always will be, there are people now that have problems with meth.  It would however, stop large crime organizations from making mass amounts of money off of it.  As well as lower the level of violence committed around drugs.

Prohibition does not work, its evident that it doesn't, considering how easy these prohibited drugs are to get.  I don't have any connects for meth, but if i go downtown for an afternoon, and go looking, i guarantee i could have some by the end of the day. 

Its a very hard situation, and with things that can harm people its hard to make the 'right' choice, if there even is one.  IMO though, its not the govt. job to take care of us, we should be wise enough to make those decisions for ourselves, similar to seatbelt laws, I hate them, however, I still wear my seatbelt, because I have a brain.

peace

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: supra]
    #9099859 - 10/19/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, at first it would be bad, very bad.  As lots of people would be come addicted, and have problems with it.




Really? We're not talking about legislating that everyone has to try the drugs. 

Also, bear in mind that amphetamines can be used responsibly without leading to the negative consequences associated with amphetamine abuse; hell, we give methamphetamine to children under the brand name desoxyn.

I think we'd see two classes of amphetamine users: The ones who smoke methamphetamine freebase (tweakers) would continue to smoke it, though I don't expect there'd be an increase in their numbers (in the long term I think we'd probably see a decrease, especially if funds currently use in the "war on drugs" instead went to rehab/recovery programs for those who want it), and a second class of oral amphetamine users who would basically be no different than the hordes of people currently taking the drug for ADD/ADHD. We've seen that a regular (2-3 times daily) oral regimen of amphetamine can be maintained in a non-abusive fashion by the majority of people who take it.

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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US *DELETED* [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9099892 - 10/19/08 12:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Ferris

Reason for deletion: .



--------------------

Discuss Politics

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: Ferris]
    #9099929 - 10/19/08 12:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
I can't speak from a broad perspective, but I know from personal experience that amphetamines in low doses give a much cleaner high than caffeine.  More bang for the buck with less side effects such as paranoia.




Absolutely. (Check out the last paragraph I editted into the post above; I do think we'd see more people taking oral amphetamines as a caffeine alternative)

Quote:

The pharms just have to make sure to put it in a non-smokable form and to add that stuff that prevents people from taking more than a couple pills without getting sick.




I disagree here.  Obviously the form in pills in not the smokable freebase (salts are much preferable for oral ingestion), but I think it's important that people be able to buy freebase meth for smoking too; otherwise, people will just extract it from the pills and freebase it themselves; there'll be the same quality control issues there are now, and there'd likely be a black market on the stuff since not everyone has the know-how to extract and freebase it themselves.

Pills with an additive to make it so you can't take too many are fine for those who want it, but should not be mandatory.  If you put that in, then it's just going to drive those who are abusing the drug orally to try to circumvent it, either by switching to smoking/snorting the freebase, extracting and seperating the drugs, or more likely buying the seperated drugs or freebase from someone who has the know-how to do it. Again, quality control problems and supporting a black market, the very things we're trying to avoid.

It's not the job of the government to be our nanny and keep us from harming ourselves.  I'm all for comprehensive drug education as a harm-reduction strategy, but when you start putting in coercive measures like the ones you propose, it starts to present the same problems as prohibition.

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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US *DELETED* [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9099959 - 10/19/08 12:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Ferris

Reason for deletion: .



--------------------

Discuss Politics

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Posts: 10,207
Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: Ferris]
    #9099975 - 10/19/08 12:59 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I get ya.  But if they put in effective measures to prevent extractions, then there's still going to be a healthy black market for freebase meth.  Tweakers like to tweak; they're proud of how many days in a row they can stay up on the shit; they won't be satisfied with a handful of amphetamine pills a day.  They'll just go back to getting thir shards via the cartels.

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OfflineTri High
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Registered: 05/02/08
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Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9104756 - 10/20/08 03:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

No worries, y'all.  Kid is safe.

Abducted six-year-old boy found alive in Las Vegas

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/20...135291-ap.html

LAS VEGAS - Police say abducted 6-year-old Cole Puffinburger has been found alive in a neighborhood northeast of the Las Vegas Strip.
Las Vegas police Officer Jay Rivera says the boy was found late Saturday.
Rivera says Cole appears healthy.
Cole was abducted from a Las Vegas home Wednesday by three men posing as police officers.
At the time, police said they believe the men were drug dealers and that the kidnapping at gunpoint was a "message" to the boy's grandfather.
The grandfather was arrested in Southern California after police named him a "person of interest."


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you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes

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Offlinehighdroponics
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Registered: 11/14/06
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Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9104978 - 10/20/08 04:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
It's not the job of the government to be our nanny and keep us from harming ourselves.  I'm all for comprehensive drug education as a harm-reduction strategy, but when you start putting in coercive measures like the ones you propose, it starts to present the same problems as prohibition.




Indeed.

People deserve a right to their own bodies, regardless of how dangerous something may be, I don't care if they intend to commit suicide, so long as they are not directly harming another person it is of no concern of mine in any shape or form.

Don't know about you all, but I don't live my life for society and especially not for the tyrannical government running the US. My life, my soul, is not yours, not the government's, it's mine. If you have a problem with that then I'm more than ready to fight my way out of the corner you intend to box me into.


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Dr :ronpaul: says to stop trying to treat the side-effects of big government and focus on the core issues. End the Federal Reserve/audit the gold reserves at Fort Knox, abolish the IRS, end all wars and occupancies, stop the building of an empire that will inevitably fail, and cut all unconstitutional federal programs. Put the power back in the peoples' hands by ending this nanny-state.

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OfflineCptnGarden
fuck this site

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: Shroomism]
    #9105229 - 10/20/08 05:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Puffinburger?


:lol:



i hope they find.....Puffinburger.

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OfflineRoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
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Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Drugs kidnap of child shocks US [Re: CptnGarden]
    #9105547 - 10/20/08 06:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CptnGarden said:
Puffinburger?

Puffinburger.




Sounds like that fast food joint I want to open up when weed gets legalized... :rofl:

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