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OfflineoDin
Registered: 08/13/99
Posts: 5,789
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91020 - 12/15/99 02:35 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I add 5-htp to all my batches. Do a search this topic has been discussed several times in advanced cultivation. carry on

------------------
Its a rash, scratch it.



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Offlinelares
member
Registered: 12/14/98
Posts: 129
Last seen: 11 years, 24 days
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91022 - 12/15/99 05:41 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Actually serotonin is '5-HT'.


--------------------
"The universe does a math equation that never even ever really is anywhere in it, and if it spouts out creation, we're on the tip of its tongue, and it asks us where we stand." -- Modest Mouse


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91023 - 12/15/99 06:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Um yeah, 5-Hydroxy Tryptamine is correctly written above---^

------------------
"After the people are dead, after the things are broken and scattered, taste and smell alone, more fragile but more enduring, more unsubstanial, more persistent, more faithful, remain poised a long time, like souls, remembering, waiting, hoping, amid the ruins of all the rest."
-Marcel Proust

[This message has been edited by Sclorch (edited December 15, 1999).]



--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflinePsilowarrior
enthusiast
Registered: 11/21/99
Posts: 195
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91024 - 12/15/99 06:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Whatever!

My question was not "is 5-HTM the proper designation for serotonin?"

My question was, "Has anyone had success with 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin) added to the substrate?"



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Offlinelares
member
Registered: 12/14/98
Posts: 129
Last seen: 11 years, 24 days
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91025 - 12/15/99 06:32 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Just trying to spread tha knowledge. Besides, I know of about 2 places to obtain 5-HT and I doubt they'd let an individual order it. Stick to 5-HTP.


--------------------
"The universe does a math equation that never even ever really is anywhere in it, and if it spouts out creation, we're on the tip of its tongue, and it asks us where we stand." -- Modest Mouse


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OfflinePsilowarrior
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Registered: 11/21/99
Posts: 195
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Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91026 - 12/15/99 06:34 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

You know I looked at the JLF site for 5-HTP and couldn't find it. Anywhere else you know of. Oh, and I've got some research grade serotonin in the fridge as we speak, that's why I asked.


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OfflineoDin
Registered: 08/13/99
Posts: 5,789
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91027 - 12/15/99 07:48 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I apologize 5-htp is 5-hydroxytryptophan. It can be bought at any health food store or pharmacy. Try to get capsules and you can just dump it in your substrate. tryptamine makes me paranoid to buy.

------------------
Its a rash, scratch it.



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Anonymous

Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91028 - 12/15/99 08:09 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

5-HT is the designation for Serotonin, atleast that's the most common one and since 5-HTP works, then 5-HT will also because the Tryptophan Decarboxylase enzyme will convert it to 5-HT before it continues in the biosynthesis process. Tryptamine isn't that great of a substance to use because of it's price and the suspicion surrounding it's use as a percursor to many different illegal drugs. 5-HTP can be obtained from the Griffonia simplicifolia plant, which can be obtained from JLF. You may want to check out this thread:

Ayahuasca Substrate

I provided many links to sources for many different possible substrate additives. There have been many different posts made on this topic in the past so a search may be good. Has anyone thought of what might be the product of this additive? 5-HO-DMT (Bufotenine)? 4,5-DiHO-DMT? Or just 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin)? Check out the link above for more info.

-Youjutsu



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Offlinelestat
newbie
Registered: 11/18/99
Posts: 34
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91029 - 12/15/99 08:49 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

i got two different brands of 5-htp from GNC.
as to whether it works or not i can't say becasue i haven't had a chance to try it yet.
it expensive though, $20-30 / bottle.


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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91030 - 12/16/99 02:29 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I have tryptamine 98% pure for sale. Only $20 a gram if interested. JLF is selling it for like $75 a gram from what I heard.

-peace-



--------------------
-Peace-
For all your legal mushroom spores and cultures visit  <a href="http://www.muShrooms.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener">www.muShrooms.com</a>


muShrooms.com is the new web site of
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OfflineTriGuy
Skeptic

Registered: 08/28/99
Posts: 105
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91031 - 12/16/99 03:04 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

In Atlanta, I can buy 5-HTP at Winn-Dixie in the vitamin section. I have added some to my liquid mycelium which I will use soon to innoculate a batch of jars. Since it is not a controlled experiment, I won't be able to tell you objectively if it increases the potency of the fruit. Maybe next time.


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InvisibleD'Gatz
newbie
Registered: 02/11/99
Posts: 9
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91032 - 12/16/99 04:35 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

From:LSD-25 and Tryptamine Syntheses by Otto Snow

"In Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms, approximately 22% of labeled tryptamine was incorporated into psilocybin. The addition of tryptamine hydrochloride to substrate increases yield of psilocybin in dried mushrooms from 0.01-0.2% to 3.3%. (Gartz 1989) (Stamets 1996).
A concentration of 25 millimoles of tryptamine hydrochloride is added to 10 grams mushroom substrate (spawn media). The substrate is composed of either rye grain spawn or rice spawn. The following spawns can be used for the culture of many species of mushrooms:
Rye Grain Spawn: 50 grams of rye grain
65 mL of water
Cow manure/Rice spawn:
0.5 cup of dried cow manure
0.25 cup of rice grain
1.5 cups of water
The spawn is placed in one pint wide mouth canning jars and pressure cooked for 30 minutes. A culture grown on PDA or MEA media is inoculated into the spawn jars and allowed to grow until the jar is completely covered in mycelium. A large aquarium can be used to cultivate the mushrooms for identification."

The rest of the entry just goes on to describe how to fruit; casing, etc.

Anyway, the reference to Gatrz is:

Gartz, J.; Biotransformation of Tryptamine in Fruiting Mycelia of Psilocybe cubensis; Planta Medica (1989) 55: 249-250

For anyone that's really into finding out, this may be a good place to look.



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OfflineTriGuy
Skeptic

Registered: 08/28/99
Posts: 105
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91033 - 12/18/99 01:04 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I added the 5-HTP to the liquid culture before sterilizing. Will it decompose in the heat? I did this because it gets closer to the live organism and theoretically would get utilized better. Otto says add it to the substrate and that is cooked too so I guess I'm ok... hmmm, answered my own question. ...Duh...

[This message has been edited by TriGuy (edited December 18, 1999).]



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Anonymous

Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91034 - 12/18/99 03:36 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Actually, D'Gatz, in reference to your reference, the addition of the tryptamine was found not to increase the psilocybin from .01-.2% to 3.3%. Actually the psilocybin content is decreased, while it's the psilocyn that reaches the 3.3% mark. This is important because during the drying process, the psilocyn is greatly harmed. Therefore if you are planning on harvesting shrooms enhanced with 5-HTP or the like, they must be eaten fresh or the whole point of adding to the substrate is lost.

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Peace and Love, Baby!



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Anonymous

Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91035 - 12/18/99 11:31 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Exactly what is 25 millimoles of tryptamine in grams since that is what most people will be looking at. Is it about 4g? Also, at 3.3% Psilocin and 0.01-0.8% Psilocybin, how many grams of alkaloids is being produced from this 25 millimoles of tryptamine? Or tell me how many grams of shrooms will be produced from 10 grams of substrate. Also, Uriah Heep, why do you say that they must be eaten fresh, where did you get this? If the ratio of Psilocin/Psilocybin remains the same after the addition of tryptamine as it did before then whatever treatment you would normally use with the shrooms could also be applied with these. Just these are 16.5 times more potent!

-PsiliPharm

[This message has been edited by PsiliPharm (edited December 18, 1999).]



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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91036 - 12/18/99 02:47 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

The way I figure it, you need 1/10th of a gram per 1/2 pint substrate.

-peace-



--------------------
-Peace-
For all your legal mushroom spores and cultures visit  <a href="http://www.muShrooms.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener">www.muShrooms.com</a>


muShrooms.com is the new web site of
www.thehawkseye.com
Sacred Mushroom Spores since 1998


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InvisibleD'Gatz
newbie
Registered: 02/11/99
Posts: 9
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91037 - 12/20/99 06:28 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Uriah - I checked the book again, and it does say "increases yield of psilocybin" but what you say makes more sense. Maybe after I'm finished finals, I'll check the Gartz reference.

As for the 25 millimoles of tryptamine, I did a quick calc and came up with 4.00 grams. This agrees with what everyone else has been saying. (Used C10H12N2 and a mol. wt. of 160.22 for tryptamine)

I think what Uriah is referring yo with the drying of tryptamine enhanced shrooms is that psilocin is far more sensitive to light, air and heat than psilocybin, so just drying them would defeat the purpose of growing with tryptamine in the first place (assuming that psilocin is mainly the product from this).



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InvisibleD'Gatz
newbie
Registered: 02/11/99
Posts: 9
Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91038 - 12/20/99 06:31 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Oops!

If you're using typtamine hydrochloride, the molecular weight will actually be 196.68, so 25 millimoles of TryHCl would be 4.92 grams.



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Anonymous

Re: 5-HTM (Serotonin)
    #91039 - 12/26/99 09:41 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I would like to make a correction at this time... Well a simple mistake was made either by D'Gatz or his source, it was actually 0.25 millimoles of tryptamine HCl, not 25 millimoles of tryptamine HCl that was used, I checked it today. I knew it had to be wrong when I read it. Which means instead of 4g of tryptamine HCl, only 40mg of tryptamine HCl was used to produce up to 3.3% Psilocin, since tryptamine weighs 160.22g/mol. Well, if 22% of the tryptamine was converted into Psilocin, then that means 8.8mg of Psilocin was converted. So, if that 8.8mg is the 3.3% Psilocin, then there was approx. 267mg of shrooms was grown. Also, if approx. 267mg of shrooms was grown and 0.8% Psilocybin was produced, then approx. 2.1mg of Psilocybin was produced. Of course, the levels of Psilocin/Psilocybin was probably not this high at the same time. While 3.3% Psilocin was detected, Psilocybin was probably undetectable and while 0.8% Psilocybin was produced, less than 3.3% Psilocin was produced. The highest level of Psilocybin will probably come in the second flush, whereas the highest level of Psilocin will come in the fourth flush. Psilocin levels remains somewhat consistant from flush to flush, whereas Psilocybin levels change rapidly from flush to flush. Also, I left off the weight of HCl because it was easier but if in that case it'll be more like 50mg that was used. I rounded most of my figures.

-PsiliPharm



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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, 5-HTP, Ayahuasca, Malt Extract, Paul Stamets, Potato Dextrose, Rye Grain

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