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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9097654 - 10/18/08 08:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd be interested to see what motives will come to light about this incident during the primaries in New Mexico (ie how malignant were their intentions)
Please note that I'm in the process of getting very drunk, so if you want serious replies from this point forward, you might have to compromise or wait till tomorrow morning. Fair warning
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9097680 - 10/18/08 08:24 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL. Look, the one "throwing out numbers" such as 200,000 is Brunner herself! Why do you never take the time to inform yourself about these subjects before jumping in with both feet? There are literally hundreds of thousands of bogus registrations out there.
You don't see it as a problem. I'm curious as to why you don't think voting fraud is a problem. Why are you going to such enormous effort to try and prove a patent absurdity - that voting fraud is nothing to worry about.
Phred
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Phred]
#9097716 - 10/18/08 08:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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200k isn't the number of fraudulent voters... it's the number of ballots that don't pass the initial check. Most of them are most likely valid cards. I assure you that I'm well informed, I just don't subscribe to the same conservative BS that assumes the worst case scenario.
Also, I believe that my exercise in actual math earlier already demonstrated that I was aware of the numbers involved.
By the way, it appears that the Republicans have just filed a new lawsuit. I'm curious as to how they have solved the issue of standing in this one.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/gop_files_new_lawsuit_against.html
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9097742 - 10/18/08 08:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Most of them are most likely valid cards.
Sure they are. Just like the first 2100 out of 2100 checked by Indiana elections people were valid - NOT!
Give it up and get drunk. See you tomorrow.
Phred
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Phred]
#9097749 - 10/18/08 08:36 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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buenas noches
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saved by zero
Stranger
Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 359
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9098976 - 10/19/08 06:31 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Recent Fraud
State Year Details AR 1998 A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards.
CO 2004 An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and registering three of her friends to vote 40 times. 2005 Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for submitting false voter registrations.
FL 2004 A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman said ACORN was %u201Csingled out%u201D among suspected voter registration groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was %u201Cthe common thread%u201D in the agency%u2019s fraud investigations.
MI 2004 The Detroit Free Press reported that %u201Coverzealous or unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under investigation for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered voters.%u201D ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups suspected of turning in the documents.
MO 2007 Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges including identity theft and filing false registrations during the 2006 election. 2006 Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in prison for forging signatures and submitting false information. 2003 Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are believed to be attempts to register voters illegally.
NC 2004 North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake voter registration cards.
NM 2005 Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially fraudulent signatures on the group%u2019s Albuquerque ballot initiative. A local sheriff added: %u201CIt%u2019s safe to say the forgery was widespread.%u201D 2004 An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson stated that ACORN was %u201Cmanufacturing voters%u201D throughout New Mexico.
OH 2007 A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties. 2004 A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board of election supervisors called %u201Cblatantly false%u201D forms. In Cuyahoga County, ACORN and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group.
MN 2004 During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed.
PA 2008 An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail. 2004 Reading%u2019s Director of Elections received calls from numerous individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks County director of elections said voter fraud was %u201Cabsolutely out of hand,%u201D and added: %u201CNot only do we have unintentional duplication of voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter registrations.%u201D The Berks County deputy director of elections added that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice.
TX 2004 ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who told reporters %u201CThe signature is not my signature. It%u2019s not even close.%u201D His social security number and date of birth were also incorrect.
VA 2005 In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law.
In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% of the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were ineligible. Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely manner, as required by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared to be evidence of intentional voter fraud. "Additionally,%u201D they wrote, %u201Cinformation appears to have been altered on some applications where information given by the applicant in one color ink has been scratched through and re-entered in another color ink. Any alteration of a voter registration application is a Class 5 Felony in accordance with § 24.2-1009 of the Code of Virginia."
WA 2007 Three ACORN employees pleaded guilty, and four more were charged, in the worst case of voter registration fraud in Washington state history. More than 2,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted by the group during a voter registration drive.
WI 2004 The district attorney%u2019s office investigated seven voter registration applications Project Vote employees filed in the names of people who said the group never contacted them. Former Project Vote employee Robert Marquise Blakely told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he had not met with any of the people whose voter registration applications he signed, %u201Can apparent violation of state law,%u201D according to the paper.
www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html
-------------------- I'm not a redneck, I'm a Appalachian-American
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: saved by zero]
#9099705 - 10/19/08 11:55 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I thought this was a nice clip from factcheck ACORN article explaining how common voter fraud actually is.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/acorn_accusations.html
Quote:
How Common Is Fraud?
Election fraud does exist, but hasn't been shown to be widespread. The New York Times reported in 2007 that a five-year crackdown on such fraud by the Bush administration's Justice Department had produced 70 convictions at the federal level, including 40 campaign workers or government workers convicted of vote-buying, intimidation or ballot forgery, and 23 cases of multiple voting or voting by ineligible voters. But the Times described these as unconnected incidents and said the Justice Department had turned up no evidence of "any organized effort to skew federal elections."
Bush administration officials have pushed hard to find such evidence, too hard in one case, according to an investigation by the Department of Justice's internal watchdogs, the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) and Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR). Their report into the firing of nine United States attorneys concluded that the "real reason" for the firing of New Mexico's U.S. Attorney David Iglesias was "complaints about Iglesias’s handling of voter fraud and public corruption matters." The complaints included gripes by state Republican Party officials who believed that widespread fraud by Democrats had prevented George Bush from winning the state in the 2000 presidential election. Iglesias launched a task force that worked with the FBI but found that "there was insufficient evidence in any of the cases the Task Force reviewed to support criminal prosecution by the [U.S. Attorney's Office] or state authorities," according to the report of the OIG and OPR. These included cases involving ACORN workers. Republicans charged that Iglesias was showing insufficient rigor in prosecuting the cases.
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saved by zero
Stranger
Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 359
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9099777 - 10/19/08 12:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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The article cited above is very damning to Obama.
At least once he's guilty of lying about his association with ACORN and in another instance the "oversight" by campaign officials is just ludicrous.
How gullible does the AP think we are?
Thanks for that link.
-------------------- I'm not a redneck, I'm a Appalachian-American
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9100001 - 10/19/08 01:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said: I thought this was a nice clip from factcheck ACORN article explaining how common voter fraud actually is.
who runs FactCheck.Org? wasnt that Annenberg, lets see, who has ties with Annenberg... well there's a known terrorist and then some presidential candidate that also has ties to some group called ACORN... yep... cant see any reason there would be bias on the Annenberg Political Fact Check site
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9100045 - 10/19/08 01:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ya, they slam Obama all the time on there because they think it will help his campaign. And PBS is just propoganda
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9100049 - 10/19/08 01:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Planet Earth and The Western Tradition are two of my favorite series on television
* The Africans (filmed in 16 African countries) * Against All Odds: Inside Statistics * Algebra: In Simplest Terms * American Cinema * American Passages: A Literary Survey * Art of the Western World (visual/fine arts) * The Brain: Teaching Modules * Bridging World History * A Biography of America * The Constitution: That Delicate Balance * Death: A Personal Understanding * Discovering Psychology: Updated Edition * Earth Revealed (geology) * Economics U$A * English Composition: Writing for an Audience * Ethics in America * Ethics in America II * Exploring the World of Music * Growing Old in a New Age * Human Geography: People, Places, and Change (economic and cultural geography) * Inside the Global Economy * Journey North (wildlife migration) * Literary Visions (literary analysis) * Math for All and Math for All—Plus (math for families of elementary school students, in English and Spanish) * The Mechanical Universe…and Beyond (physics) * The Mind: Teaching Modules (cognitive science) * News Writing * Out of the Past (archaeology and anthropology) * Planet Earth (Earth science and astronomy) * The Power of Place: Geography for the 21st Century * Reactions in Chemistry * Rural Communities: Legacy & Change * Seasons of Life (lifespan psychology) * Signature: Contemporary Writers (series featuring authors from the American South) * Unseen Life on Earth: An Introduction to Microbiology * Voices & Visions (American poetry) * The Western Tradition (history of Western civilization) * The World of Abnormal Psychology * A World of Art: Works in Progress (art appreciation) * The World of Chemistry
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9100070 - 10/19/08 01:30 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said: I'll answer your question (I thought before that you were pressing me to answer if I was stupid or not).
Look at Mushmonkey's response. Now, since early voters have to sign up in person with ID as has been stated before in this thread, they have already gone through a screening process.
yes, that ID
In ohio, an electric bill counts. We've been over this before.
And what are these 'databases' you refer to that we should check voters with? After florida 2000 I think you should be careful throwing out that bullshit.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: johnm214]
#9100123 - 10/19/08 01:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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The answer was off the cuff and not meant to be complete. It IS an initial screen, so that's true. They do use databases to screen again, do they not? So that's probably true.
So what's your deal with me? I was just answering a question to the best of my knowledge.
Here's 10 seconds worth of research on databases, thanks to Google news search:
Quote:
On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court told Ohio's Republican Party it was not entitled to a list of 200,000-plus Ohioans whose voter registration information did not match Social Security and state drivers' license databases.
So it seems that unless you thought I was making an opinion of the veracity of the databases, which would be unwarranted, you should get off my case. I'd have been more complete if he weren't being a dick by the way.
/lack of civility
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
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Loc: Americas
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9100161 - 10/19/08 02:02 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wasn't saying you were bullshit, I was saying the databases are bullshit. There's no law you must have one address and there's no reason to deny someone voting privledges just cuz various databases don't agree- that's what I mean.
You ever ordered a choicepoint or other database consumer report? You won't believe the bullshit you'll find.
And the self-reported addresses don't need to be accurate for voting purposes (social security, et cet).
These should not be used to disqualify but to investigate.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: johnm214]
#9100224 - 10/19/08 02:21 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ah, ok, well answered.
At this point, I want to reiterate that there's no such thing as a perfect voting system. The system that prevents the least amount of people from voting compared to the percentage of illegal votes, is the best system. If anyone here has an opinion of a system other than this ratio to use as a guideline in forming processes and regulations, then I'd like to hear your rational.
Note that I assume in this model that the party of voters is 100% irrelevant when obtaining or losing voters in the numerator and that I assume that each party shares an equal amount of election fraud in the denominator. The latter assumption may be questionable, but I don't see how we can make any other assumption, since factoring that in would likely have legal repercussions.
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saved by zero
Stranger
Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 359
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9101002 - 10/19/08 05:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said: The answer was off the cuff and not meant to be complete. It IS an initial screen, so that's true. They do use databases to screen again, do they not? So that's probably true.
So what's your deal with me? I was just answering a question to the best of my knowledge.
Here's 10 seconds worth of research on databases, thanks to Google news search:
Quote:
On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court told Ohio's Republican Party it was not entitled to a list of 200,000-plus Ohioans whose voter registration information did not match Social Security and state drivers' license databases.
So it seems that unless you thought I was making an opinion of the veracity of the databases, which would be unwarranted, you should get off my case. I'd have been more complete if he weren't being a dick by the way.
/lack of civility
Quote:
Ferris said: I'll answer your question (I thought before that you were pressing me to answer if I was stupid or not).
I'm gonna call you out bullshitter on this one. Typical liberal dodge the answer or skew it to fit your premise. You knew damn well what question I was asking you to answer.....as if I'd expect an answer to whether or not you were stupid???? My question to you was to whether or not you believed what you, yourself, wrote.
Now who's being a dick?......Someone calls you out and your response is you answered in the heat of the moment? I pm'ed you and apologized for changing your post(although in all fairness my changes to your post were in red)and you accepted my apology saying you weren't here to bash anyone. Now, who's bashing? You, sir, are the dick, now.
-------------------- I'm not a redneck, I'm a Appalachian-American
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: saved by zero]
#9101025 - 10/19/08 06:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Typical liberal dodge the answer or skew it to fit your premise.
I really hope you know how silly that sounds (and is). Dodging is not inherent by either liberals or conservatives, regardless of what sort of nonsensical rhetoric you feel like you need to believe.
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saved by zero
Stranger
Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 359
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Redstorm]
#9101057 - 10/19/08 06:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
Typical liberal dodge the answer or skew it to fit your premise.
I really hope you know how silly that sounds (and is). Dodging is not inherent by either liberals or conservatives, regardless of what sort of nonsensical rhetoric you feel like you need to believe.
I meant dodge the question. Anyway, he has liberal views AND he dodged the question.
He dodged/didn't answer the question I asked by implying that he thought my query was to whether or not I thought he was stupid. THAT is my point. Read the post.
-------------------- I'm not a redneck, I'm a Appalachian-American
Edited by saved by zero (10/19/08 06:13 PM)
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: saved by zero]
#9101083 - 10/19/08 06:19 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok, let's get down to this. I just went back ~60 posts and found you're original question for me, which was whether I think that these events of voter registration fraud will effect this election.
I've supplied simple mathematical models predicting the effect, philosophical theories on which methods are most democratic. I've begun to analyze the initial and secondary screening processes which have not yet even reached a point where they can be held to scrutiny under the law.
In short, the answer is no, I don't think that it will effect the election. But I don't deal with absolutes based on partisan politics. I deal with probabilities, with motives. I'm trying to guess what's really happening, and navigate what I think should be happening.
Let's move on to some of these subjects that I've brought up that I don't feel have been responded to in full.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: saved by zero]
#9101093 - 10/19/08 06:22 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I did read your post. You said it was a "typical liberal dodge" meaning that it is something common or inherent in liberals.
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