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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #9096704 - 10/18/08 03:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

But if those records are matched with a name, then that should be enough.

Now, there are discrepancies between records, but the official you refer to isn't NOT going to do anything about them, she has just YET to do anything about them.

It is up to the states to comply with the appropriate voting regulations and for the courts to determine if their actions fulfill them.

What is NOT appropriate is for the Republican Party to dictate those terms.  Do you see that?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
    #9096742 - 10/18/08 03:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The Republican Party was not dictating.  They just sued to have the law enforced.  They were found to have no standing.  Now somebody else will sue to have the law enforced.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
    #9096751 - 10/18/08 03:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

They have 2 weeks to do something with them.

There's hundreds of thousands of these newly-registered voters and their votes to verify.

In 2 weeks?  nothing's been done yet? 

2 weeks from now they'll be half-done, and have to count them all -- because golly gosh, even though it's months until the next president would be sworn in, we have to have our results IMMEDIATELY!


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9096763 - 10/18/08 03:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The votes are not technically cast until election day.  Therefore, they cannot be considered to be out of complyment until after that time, when the votes are actually counted.

They are dictating a timeline.  The officer has asked for suggested guidelines, which implies that she intends to comply, but not until she knows she can do it delicately (ie not repeat Florida).


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9096780 - 10/18/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Kind of feels good to hear republicans scared of voter fraud for once.

But this is not voter fraud.
It is registration fraud.
There is NO evidence that anyone has used any of these registrations to actually vote.
Furthermore, there is no evidence that this was perpetrated by democrats, instead of republicans trying to make democrat voter registration drives look bad.

The ruling was not that voter registration fraud would not be investigated. The ruling was that there would be no systematic purge.

As far as Obama wanting to prosecute, all power to him: There have been accusations against the group itself rather than the individual perpetrators. That IS libel. There is no evidence this was anything more than individuals on the lower end of the process trying to make money. Republicans want to throw out ACORN itself... once again using a hatchet, instead of a scapel.






IMO There should be another special prosecutor appointed to investigate whether Obama's appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate the prosecutors investigating ACORN was politically motivated!


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9096784 - 10/18/08 03:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9097119 - 10/18/08 05:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

There are attempts to stop it, but there will never be a 100% foolproof method.




There already are. Unfortunately, these methods are vehemently opposed by Democrats. Gee.... I wonder why that is?

Quote:

All you've shown were that only around 1% of ACORN ballots are fraudulent,




You haven't been following this whole Brunner thing, have you? That alone - ignore all the other tens of thousands reported in other states, let's just look at the number of ones Brunner claims must be let stand - is 200,000. Not 2,000, not 20,000, but 200,000. That's twenty per cent of a million, dewd.





Phred


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Phred]
    #9097186 - 10/18/08 06:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Let's do math.  Based on the last election, we can assume that at least 6 million people will vote in Ohio this election.  Let's take ACORN's figure for now and say that 1%, or 2,000 of those votes are fraudulent.

That's 0.033% or one in three thousand votes.  Even if it's one in ten of those votes, which would be insane, then it would only account for a third of a percent.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
    #9097203 - 10/18/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

George W. Bush became America's forty-third president because he had 538 more votes in Florida than Al Gore.

Five hundred and thirty-eight.





Phred


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Invisiblesaved by zero
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
    #9097218 - 10/18/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Let's do math.  Based on the last election, we can assume that at least 6 million people will vote in Ohio this election.  Let's take ACORN's figure for now and say that 1%, or 2,000 of those votes are fraudulent.

That's 0.033% or one in three thousand votes.  Even if it's one in ten of those votes, which would be insane, then it would only account for a third of a percent.




Now why in the world would anyone accept ACORN's figure?
Now, or even in the future.  They have proven to be completely unreliable and cetainly biased.


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Invisiblethedefone
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Phred]
    #9097223 - 10/18/08 06:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Commission's extensive analysis of statistical data reveals that African Americans were disproportionately purged from the voter roles due to spoiled ballots rendered by undercounts and overcounts. The failure to incorporate Motor Voter registrants and the notorious, state-sponsored, erroneous purging procedures significantly contributed to the dilution of the African American vote.

The Commission also found that the lack of uniformity and absence of clear guidance from top state officials in the allocation of election-day resources, including voter education funds and effective poll worker training contributed to the incidence of spoiled ballots.

The Commission's hearings spotlighted and this report highlights the harsh reality that despite the closeness of the election, it was widespread voter disenfranchisement and not the dead-heat contest that was the extraordinary feature of the Florida election.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/ccrdraft060401.htm


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: saved by zero]
    #9097227 - 10/18/08 06:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Do you have an alternative figure?  As far as I can see, they appear to be cooperating fully.

A risk/reward analysis of the situation would show that they're money and time would be much better spent, say filing suits in the court to make last minute changes to election procedure.


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Phred]
    #9097235 - 10/18/08 06:27 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
George W. Bush became America's forty-third president because he had 538 more votes in Florida than Al Gore.

Five hundred and thirty-eight.




I acknowledge that, but I'm thinking that if any fake votes were cast and when they are caught, that they will show to be in the dozens.  If it's actually that close, with all this controversy, they will be dragging this out.  I hope it doesn't come to that to where Obama either wins by 1-3% or more, or he just plain loses Ohio, but wins say, only Florida out of the swing states, where he's further ahead by Ohio, and wins the election anyways.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
    #9097289 - 10/18/08 06:43 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
But if those records are matched with a name, then that should be enough.





how do you accurately match 4 digits to one of 5 million people

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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9097387 - 10/18/08 07:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Databases.  The name should match the number, then you can't use that number again, so the person can't vote twice.  Also, since it's in-person, the same person would have to vote each time in a different location, or risk a felony for that second vote.

I'm not saying the system is perfect or that I even support it, but it doesn't have anywhere near enough room for the kind of massive conspiracy some of the people in this thread would lead others to believe is happening.

Does that 200,000 number reflect the number of people that used a social only to vote?  I'd be interested in an actual breakdown if one is available.  Photo IDs are much more reliable, so I'm not going to give much credence to any argument that involves them.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
    #9097421 - 10/18/08 07:19 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Databases.  The name should match the number, then you can't use that number again, so the person can't vote twice.  Also, since it's in-person, the same person would have to vote each time in a different location, or risk a felony for that second vote.




unfortunately it's not really that simple, once you hit
10,000 the numbers would have to roll over, sure it's not
likely that 2 people would have the same last 4 digits of the
same SSN in  a given voting precinct but I'm sure it will
happen at least once and then someone is refused the right to
vote also what's to stop someone from hitting several
precincts using just the limited bit of info they require

this makes me reconsider voter IDs, swipe it through the
scanner, it pulls you from the list of people that havent
voted yet, it's no different than a drivers license only you
dont have to use it but once every election

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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9097458 - 10/18/08 07:30 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

There are better systems available for sure.

The actual issue here of course is when it gets down to it, when you factor in risk/reward preventing people from voting illegally (felony, 1 vote/10 bucks) versus diluting effect the number of people that are no longer prevented from voting (which is significant, and unfortunately laziness wasn't mentioned in the constitution), you see that the numbers probably more accurately reflect the views of the population.

It's still a crime when you get caught, it's still a crime to look the other way.  I know this method favors Democrats, but if you ignore that for a second, which method sounds like a more perfect reflection of the concept of democracy?

My idea would be instead of the minor burden of making people sign up for identification, that we could use a form of biometrics, that would not be accessible to any other level of government of course.  There will always be a better mousetrap, but just look at how so many complains about electronic voter machines even though I'd guess that they're way more secure than anything that can be done on paper.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
    #9097562 - 10/18/08 08:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It'd be much easier if we just made everyone vote on one certain day.  If you're filing an absentee ballot, you ought be made to jump through more hoops to verify you are who you say and that you only will vote that one time -- you know before hand that you won't make it to the polls, therefor you should have enough time to jump through the hoops.

after that?  screw it, ink everyone's finger on election day.


no-fault absentee ballots are bullshit and only favor lazy people who probably aren't informed of anything anyway.  and the (truthful) assertions that they favor democrats heavily makes me say "lol" and receive strange looks for saying it.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
    #9097611 - 10/18/08 08:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I acknowledge that, but I'm thinking that if any fake votes were cast and when they are caught, that they will show to be in the dozens.




You base this speculation on....... what, exactly?

Why are you an apologist for voting fraud?







Phred


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Phred]
    #9097644 - 10/18/08 08:18 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I've made it pretty clear that I know its against the law and that I think that any perpetrating it should be sentenced harshly under the law (since heavy sentencing is both just and a good deterrent under these circumstances).  I'm just giving counter-speculation to demonstrate that I think that is those who are throwing out numbers like 200,000 that are the ones that are being unreasonable in their interpretation and extrapolation from the facts given.


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