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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: johnm214]
#9096468 - 10/18/08 02:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: These are ballots that are submited in person generally, as you have to show up in person to register and vote all at once to my understanding.
but what checks and balances are in place to verify that each voter only has one ballot cast in only one precinct
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The date of the vote is always eleciton day, and it is cast when it is unsealed, inspected, and counted.
again it's still just articulation with an emphasis on the date
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: zappaisgod]
#9096470 - 10/18/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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You know what I was talking about. The opinion of the court re: registration and absentee ballot submission at the same time is legal and mandated for those who wish during certain periods of time.
And prisoner:
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Federal law mandates that a voter be registered for 30 days prior to voting, by simply waiting 30 days to count the ballots they believe this is the way around that, unfortunately when I cast a ballot for candidates I have in fact voted and violated that federal law
Do you have a source for this? What is the definition of voting for federal purposes?
And no, I really don't think they think its a way around anything. That law was around in various incarnations for a long time, probably much longer than the federal law.
What happened was their were two laws:
1 old law: You have the right to be an elector if you are registered for 30 days as of election day.
1 new law: You can submit an absentee ballot if you are registered by going to the county board during certain periods of time (also other ways, but irrelevant).
The legislature is stupid and passed the new law without thinking of how that would affect the old law. Since you have the right to be an elector if you are registered for more than 30 days as of eleciton day and as you are allowed to get an absentee ballot even if you've not been registered for 30 days, and you are allowed to vote absentee at the county board during certain periods (including such periods that are more than 30 days from eleciton day- the relevant period) this is where the silliness comes from.
But really... I honestly don't see the problem with this on a purely mechanical level. What difference does it make if the person registers and casts his ballot on the same day or registers and gets his ballot (what the republicans wanted) and just waited around till election day to cast it?
I don't get the difference.
The only difference I see is people could cast the absentee ballot on the same day in the first, and this might get folks who spur of the moment want to cast fraudulent votes or who are more confident about doing so if they believe the ballot casted is the same as a vote and thus aren't worried about getting caught. Someone want to help me out on the big concern?
Are absentee ballots not, in practice, checked to make sure the voter had registered? I can't imagine. And when I looked at the law a week or so ago it seemed like the ballots were to be verified against the registration sheet upon the unsealing on election day.
So do they not verify registrations the same if the person's submited a ballot the same day or what?
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: saved by zero]
#9096472 - 10/18/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Great way to debate his response, name call him and change what he said like its coming from him.
He must of struck a nerve huh?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
#9096474 - 10/18/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
supernovasky said: Kind of feels good to hear republicans scared of voter fraud for once.
But this is not voter fraud. It is registration fraud. There is NO evidence that anyone has used any of these registrations to actually vote. Furthermore, there is no evidence that this was perpetrated by democrats, instead of republicans trying to make democrat voter registration drives look bad.
The ruling was not that voter registration fraud would not be investigated. The ruling was that there would be no systematic purge.
As far as Obama wanting to prosecute, all power to him: There have been accusations against the group itself rather than the individual perpetrators. That IS libel. There is no evidence this was anything more than individuals on the lower end of the process trying to make money. Republicans want to throw out ACORN itself... once again using a hatchet, instead of a scapel.
You are utterly ignorant of what libel is. There is a nationwide pattern of fraud by one single group. Further, you are either refusing to follow my links or are just illiterate. I posted links to reports of illegal voters already voting in Ohio. New Mexico. Battleground states, as you mention over and over again in another thread about polling. Do I wish to throw out ACORN? You betcha.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
#9096484 - 10/18/08 02:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
supernovasky said: But this is not voter fraud. It is registration fraud. There is NO evidence that anyone has used any of these registrations to actually vote.
there's video evidence that people have registered and cast ballots on the same day, how many of these ballots are tied to fraudulent cards, if we disqualifiy the fraudulent cards and count the ballots cast in the week where the early voting was taking place, would the numbers match?
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Furthermore, there is no evidence that this was perpetrated by democrats, instead of republicans trying to make democrat voter registration drives look bad.
got any numbers on the number of republicans working for ACORN?
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#9096489 - 10/18/08 02:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said: Great way to debate his response, name call him and change what he said like its coming from him.
He must of struck a nerve huh?
I'd be more concerned if he had ever made a single valid point, like some of the other people in the political forum that I tend to disagree with, but still respect and try to learn from and revise opinions based on.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9096505 - 10/18/08 02:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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More politics of convenience, much like your stand on voter fraud, which is, to put it kindly, unprincipled.
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AnonymousRabbit
Comrade
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 8,993
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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.
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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 01:06 AM)
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,867
Last seen: 5 months, 9 hours
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9096523 - 10/18/08 02:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said:Now you're being paranoid. There is non-partisan, federal oversight of the process. So if there is something going on there, the administration will get to the bottom of it, and Ohio's electoral votes may even need to be withheld in the meantime.
Did you bother to read the link I posted where Ohio's trying to avoid that whole oversight process because it would be too much work.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/17/ohio-secretary-state-files-extension-compliance-circuit-court-voter-fraud/
That's an up to date link. The court threw the whole thing out on a technicality. So now we're back to the Ohio Sec. of State throwing her hands up saying "GOLLY GOSH! There's so many of these, we might have a few legit voters in here and I'd hate to accidentally throw their vote out, so ALL the votes have to be counted! Even though we know a lot, probably most, are phony, it's the *only way to be sure we count all the legitimate votes!*"
-------------------- i finally got around to making a sig revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might grar.
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saved by zero
Stranger
Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 359
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9096525 - 10/18/08 02:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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OK I agree. It was wrong of me to change his post. I'm sorry. The name calling goes both ways. I am, however, patiently waiting for his response to my query.
Do you really believe that voter fraud will not change the outcome of this election?
-------------------- I'm not a redneck, I'm a Appalachian-American
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
#9096538 - 10/18/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
supernovasky said:
Quote:
got any numbers on the number of republicans working for ACORN?
Apparently you have never heard of "False flag" operations.
like the one claiming that this is obviously a republican conspiracy?
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AnonymousRabbit
Comrade
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 8,993
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 01:06 AM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
#9096562 - 10/18/08 03:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
supernovasky said: Yes. I really believe that voter fraud will not change the outcome of this election.
so there's no chance that it could drive more votes away from one candidate or the other, in a instance where it's found that ACORN had no complicity a few undecided wouldnt be swayed to vote obama as this is a republican smoke screen or vice versa?
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: saved by zero]
#9096579 - 10/18/08 03:05 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'll answer your question (I thought before that you were pressing me to answer if I was stupid or not).
Look at Mushmonkey's response. Now, since early voters have to sign up in person with ID as has been stated before in this thread, they have already gone through a screening process.
Now's the time for the fuzzy math that I know you're not going to like, but it's central to my argument, so here goes. Make up a number of votes that you think is going to get through the screening process. Now make up a number of legitimate votes that will be thrown out by additional screening. Most sane estimates would put the former at far fewer than the latter.
The former is a legal process, while the latter is probably not, unless mandated. Just because it was thrown out of court (adding legal backing to the argument), there are still options for oversight. Any CLEARLY fake names will still be thrown out, but it must be done within the bounds of the law. There are so many precedents for vulnerabilities that can arise from changing election law in the middle of the process. Which is the larger issue here?
I do hope that those who have broken the law (the workers), pay for their crimes with due process of the law. I DO NOT think that the investigations will show any wrongdoing on the part of the dems or ACORN the organization. Also, the GOP will be counting votes for years to come in the close elections most likely (through the appropriate channels), and the truth will come out, in months if needs be.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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saved by zero
Stranger
Registered: 09/30/08
Posts: 359
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9096580 - 10/18/08 03:05 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Damn. This is like pulling eye teeth
-------------------- I'm not a redneck, I'm a Appalachian-American
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9096581 - 10/18/08 03:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said: Explain to me how this will win the election for the Democrats.
God damn it. Hundreds of posts on the subject, and none of you can explain even that. I've asked at least a couple times before.
The reason is that you can't. So put up, or shut the hell up.
IMO it’s the conspiracy to commit fraud that’s pissing me off.
In states like Ohio you could register (fraudulently) and vote (fraudulently) at the same time. That could help win the election for the Democrats or the Republicans!
Why does that not bother you?
and Ferris filling out fake voter registrations is fraud and a 14 year felony!
"Attorney General files felony voter registration charges"
LANSING - Attorney General Mike Cox today announced the arrest of Antonio Johnson, a former employee ACORN the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), on forgery charges after he falsely submitted State of Michigan voter registration forms to the City of Jackson.
Johnson, a convicted felon who is currently being held in Jackson County on a parole violation, is charged with falsifying six State of Michigan voter registration applications. The registrations were submitted through ACORN to City of Jackson Clerk Lynn Fessel. Johnson filled out, signed and submitted the six applications, using two Jackson residents' names without their permission or knowledge, between May 20, 2008 and June 2, 2008.
Johnson, 23, was charged with six counts of forgery of a public document, in violation of MCL 750.248, and faces up to 14 years for each count.
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164--201714--,00.html
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Mushmonkey]
#9096585 - 10/18/08 03:07 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Also, "standing" isn't just a technicality. It has importance, and the GOP should have seen it coming from a mile away. I suspect a ploy here, they knew they would lose.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
#9096588 - 10/18/08 03:07 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
supernovasky said:
Quote:
You are utterly ignorant of what libel is. There is a nationwide pattern of fraud by one single group. Further, you are either refusing to follow my links or are just illiterate. I posted links to reports of illegal voters already voting in Ohio. New Mexico. Battleground states, as you mention over and over again in another thread about polling. Do I wish to throw out ACORN? You betcha.
Were they registered by ACORN? These illegal voters that voted? Illegal voters vote every election. There are attempts to stop it, but there will never be a 100% foolproof method. Furthermore, you have not proven nationwide fraud by one single group. All you've shown were that only around 1% of ACORN ballots are fraudulent, and not perpetrated by ACORN organizers and leaders, but rather, low-rung individuals gaming the system.
It is ludicrous to keep making excuses for ACORN when there are endless abuses by multiple employees in several states. I suspect that 1% number is a total ass pull (i.e. from ACORN's website). I haven't shown that at all, by the way. In some places the questionable registrations run to 100% of new. But I have shown that there are fraudulent people voting in Ohio. And New Mexico. Regardless of who they vote for it is a crime.Quote:
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got any numbers on the number of republicans working for ACORN?
Apparently you have never heard of "False flag" operations.
Ever heard of an irrelevant argument? Do you think Republicans are infiltrating ACORN?
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: zappaisgod]
#9096643 - 10/18/08 03:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey Zappa how does ACORN ( non-partisan), and is funded by tax payer money endorse Obama for President?
"ACORN's political action committee endorsed Barack Obama for President. This is an important nod from a group that understands the urgent needs of Americans most hurt by this economy and how to organize for social and economic justice."
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=289192
"I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career"
Barack Obama
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
Edited by lonestar2004 (10/18/08 03:48 PM)
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,867
Last seen: 5 months, 9 hours
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Re: Obama Wants to Prosecute Those Seeking to Prevent Vote Fraud [Re: Ferris]
#9096668 - 10/18/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said:Look at Mushmonkey's response. Now, since early voters have to sign up in person with ID as has been stated before in this thread, they have already gone through a screening process.
DO they? Check Ohio's regs.
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/elections/voterInformation/bringid.aspx
All they need is the last 4 digits of a social security number. Certainly THAT isn't open to fraud!
Quote:
Ferris said: Also, "standing" isn't just a technicality. It has importance, and the GOP should have seen it coming from a mile away. I suspect a ploy here, they knew they would lose.
And if they did nothing, massive voter fraud would take place because nobody who had proper standing was going to stop it -- and was perhaps involved in allowing it to happen. They file the suit, it gets headlines, it draws a spotlight.
-------------------- i finally got around to making a sig revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might grar.
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