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OfflineCannashroom
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The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary
    #9092311 - 10/17/08 03:40 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, for those who don't know the story of Omar, He was a 15 year old Canadian in Afghanistan when he was accused of killing a US medic, which this doc shows to be false.  Anyways Canada (fucking Harper!) has refused to ask for him back when all other western countries have gotten their citizens back from Camp Justice (*sigh*).  Anyways he has spent 1/3 of his life in prision and is going to tried for murder.  This documentary from the CBC shows the the military changed their story and lied about what happened.  It shows how they tortured a severly wounded 15-year old boy.  It shows how the canadian government was complicit in it as well.

I almost started crying at some points, I already knew the terrible consequences of the War on Terror, but this, torturing a child, makes me so angry.  It is around 45 minutes.

WARNING! Graphic and very very heavy and sad.












US vs Omar Khadr

Really, he should have been freed anyways for being a child soldier, but hey, Harper (Canadian PM) wants to put 14 year olds in jail for life, so I guess it fits.

Lastly, If you support the War on Terror, please, watch this video and see the atrocities brought to these nations so you can see the suffering and pain you endorse.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

Edited by Cannashroom (10/18/08 01:23 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092541 - 10/17/08 04:14 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Right.  Just bend over and let them bomb all of our buildings.  No problem for you.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092604 - 10/17/08 04:25 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Don't you know that in this post 9-11 climate, it is ethically permissible to jail children for years without trial, just as long as they are terrorists?

Not only is it permissible, it's how you WIN.  You extract information from them.


--------------------

Edited by Minstrel (10/17/08 04:26 PM)

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092610 - 10/17/08 04:26 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Either charge the little shit with a crime or let him go, if he's old enough to pull the pin out of a grenade he's old enough to except the consequences.

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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9092635 - 10/17/08 04:30 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

There has been a huge increase in terrorism in places like Iraq and Afghanistan after they went in, its just self perpetuating wet dream of the military industrial complex.

We don't need a War on terror to deal with this.  There was no War on Terror needed for the IRA, but things got better, we aren't making the problem any better going in and killing everyone and accusing everyone else, of course there's going to be even more people wanting to blow your buildings up.

Please, watch the film, or go somewhere else, don't need to hear your bullshit.  Killing uncounted hundreds of thousands of civilians, and imprisoning thousands of innocent people, that is a War OF Terror.  Much more Terror has been caused then prevented, as is the point of a war on terror, more fear in the people of terrorism, and more fear of being accused a terrorist for everyone else.  And if you question the legitimacy of this war of terror, then your with the terrorists!


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092642 - 10/17/08 04:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cannashroom said:


We don't need a War on terror to deal with this.  There was no War on Terror needed for the IRA, but things got better, we aren't making the problem any better going in and killing everyone and accusing everyone else, of course there's going to be even more people wanting to blow your buildings up.





You have no clue about the IRA and the conflict in N. Ireland.

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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092701 - 10/17/08 04:43 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

If you watched it you would have seen that he was innocent of throwing the grenade.  He was brought to Afghanistan by his family and left with his father's friends who were militants as a translator, what was he supposed to do, say run away into Afghanistan with no money or idea where to go?.  Then one day the US bombed his compound for a few hours, and when they came inside to find him curled up with some shrapnel in his eye, they shot him in the back twice.  Luckily (or unluckily maybe) they rushed him to a prison hospital.  Once he regained conciousness the torture started.

Please, watch the documentary if you want to discuss it.

Once again, he was a child soldier, under International law. Oh right, the rule of law doesn't apply to our rulers, sorry.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092751 - 10/17/08 04:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

What I'm saying is that they don't need a worldwide Inquisition to fight terrorism, our law enforcement, military and intelligence services we had before were perfectly fine.  Our intelligence services knew about 9/11 (Ghee I wonder why eh?) it just wasn't a priority to you know, do anything, curious huh?

Because that's how the war on terror operates, kills a bunch, and then tortures the rest (with many of the same techniques of their 400 year old Inquisitorial ancestors) until they confess crimes devious enough to have them killed as well.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092766 - 10/17/08 04:56 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cannashroom said:
If you watched it you would have seen that he was innocent of throwing the grenade.  He was brought to Afghanistan by his family and left with his father's friends who were militants as a translator, what was he supposed to do, say run away into Afghanistan with no money or idea where to go?.  Then one day the US bombed his compound for a few hours, and when they came inside to find him curled up with some shrapnel in his eye, they shot him in the back twice.  Luckily (or unluckily maybe) they rushed him to a prison hospital.  Once he regained conciousness the torture started.

Please, watch the documentary if you want to discuss it.

Once again, he was a child soldier, under International law. Oh right, the rule of law doesn't apply to our rulers, sorry.




And laws dont apply in warfare, the little kid in my sig is also a child soldier, fighting the Sri Lankan sinhalese majority, I doubt when the GOSL gets ahold of her they'll contact the Geneva convetion. Im not watching the documentary. It must be elitist to worry so much about a kid who killed americans while people are suffering world wide from oppresion.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9092788 - 10/17/08 05:02 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Either charge the little shit with a crime or let him go, if he's old enough to pull the pin out of a grenade he's old enough to except the consequences.




" Anyways he has spent 1/3 of his life in prision and is going to tried for murder. "

seems as if he's been charged

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9092792 - 10/17/08 05:03 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Im not watching the documentary.




I tried but it's unavailable

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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9092878 - 10/17/08 05:29 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Really? It worked for me, maybe it only works in Canada, but I doubt that.

And once again, HE DIDN'T Kill the American.  Some of the soldiers there have since quit the military and admitted that he was not at fault.  He is innocent of killing the American, so he is being held and tortured, when he was really innocent of killing the medic.

There is one part interviewing one of his interrogators who admits they tortured him.  He would talk to him about playing play station and things, then the time would come to torture him.  He would say to his interrogators things like "You know the Nazi's acted like this, and all they could reply was I'm sorry, but I have to.  All these people you can see are terribly hurt by what they did not and are just trying to move on from that period.  The soldiers who were there spoke out for his innocence, it was show that the military report was changed.

One last thing, you have been in a compound bombed for hours, you are the lone survivor and all your friends are dead.  You hear and see the soldiers coming to kill you, do you A, let them shoot you, or B try to kill them with a grenade?


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092886 - 10/17/08 05:32 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cannashroom said:
One last thing, you have been in a compound bombed for hours, you are the lone survivor and all your friends are dead.  You hear and see the soldiers coming to kill you, do you A, let them shoot you, or B try to kill them with a grenade?




So you admit he pulled the pin on a grenade and threw it at american soldiers? Just a second ago you said he didnt hurt or kill american soldiers. Keep in mind that when Khadr threw a grenade at soldiers, they shot him and then treated him. He would of died in the sands of Afghanistan if it wasnt for such behavior.

Your own country wont even repatriate him.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092926 - 10/17/08 05:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

war is hell, when you're 15 and decide to go fight one, your
intent to do harm is clear, true innocent people die every day
in Iraq because of aggression coming from both sides, I can
have no sympathy for the kid

I am still interested in his story

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9092928 - 10/17/08 05:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> And once again, HE DIDN'T Kill the American.

I don't care if he killed them or not, he was fighting against soldiers and not following the rules of war as defined by the Geneva Convention, thus he has no rights.  I would say the same thing if it were an American rather than a Canadian, fighting Canadian soldiers.  If you stick your hand in the beehive, expect to get stung.  He certainly isn't an innocent child that was walking down the road in Canada, minding his own business, when the evil Taliban swept him off the street, flew him to Afghanistan, gave him a weapon, and forced him to fight against American soldiers.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Seuss]
    #9094755 - 10/18/08 12:25 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, firstly, I do not think he threw the grenade, I was just posing the question.

His parents took him to Afghanistan at 13, as a 13 year old I would not of ran from my parents, I think very few people on this board could honestly say they would have done differently in his situation.

Next, the US butured the Geneva convention, so please don't bring it up against the people they accuse, it is a terrible double standard, Its too bad you guys don't just watch the doc, the torture they describe almost made me cry.  That is very serious for me, it just made me so disgusted with Canada, and the War on Terror, he is literally crying for his mother as they torture him.  And the resolve he holds, it is so amazing.

And all he asks of Canada is chance to lead a normal life, no parents taking him to afghanistan, he just wants to be a normal person living anonymously like all of us, and all you guys and do is say he should be killed.  He didn't even kill the American, I guess my question was misleading when I asked what people would do in that situation.  I was merely posing the question, the facts state that Omar has been hit with shrapnel in the eye and was covered in a corner, the grenade, as admitted by the soldiers there was not thrown by him.

As I said before, the person who interrogated him was convicted of torturing someone to death afterward, as others admitted the torture, which were also standard procedure.

The War on [of] Terror is ineffectual and ridiculous, once again just the wet dream of the industrial military complex come to reality, a never ending war all over the world, which is self perpetuating.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Cannashroom]
    #9095224 - 10/18/08 04:26 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> He didn't even kill the American

Again, it isn't the killing that matters to me.  Was he a combatant or was he a bystander.  My viewpoint changes drastically depending upon this answer.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Seuss]
    #9095295 - 10/18/08 05:20 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> And once again, HE DIDN'T Kill the American.

I don't care if he killed them or not, he was fighting against soldiers and not following the rules of war as defined by the Geneva Convention, thus he has no rights.  I would say the same thing if it were an American rather than a Canadian, fighting Canadian soldiers.  If you stick your hand in the beehive, expect to get stung.  He certainly isn't an innocent child that was walking down the road in Canada, minding his own business, when the evil Taliban swept him off the street, flew him to Afghanistan, gave him a weapon, and forced him to fight against American soldiers.





Do you know he's not a POW?


There's not enough information in this thread that, if true, would allow you to conclude one way or another.  I don't know anything about this, maybe you know more than me.


If his actions were undertaken while afghanistan was initially invaded than I could see him being a POW, provided he was in country prior to the invasion.  When did the incident occur?


And in any case, the torture of this kid, if it happened, is inexcusable.  The geneva convention doesn't sanction this for non POW's, it just doesn't consider it.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: johnm214]
    #9095346 - 10/18/08 05:58 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> And in any case, the torture of this kid, if it happened, is inexcusable.

I'm not debating that part, and agree completely.  I was arguing against "he was an innocent combatant that didn't kill anybody" (paraphrased) excuse.  In my mind, if you are fighting, it doesn't matter if you killed or not.  If he was an innocent bystander that got swept up as if he were a combatant, then my views towards him change.  However, if he was a combatant that intended to fight, then killing or not is irrelevant.


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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: The US vs Omar Khadr - Documentary [Re: Seuss]
    #9095857 - 10/18/08 11:28 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

His father brought him to Afghanistan and gave him to militants as a translator because he spoke 3 languages fluently including English.  He did not decide he wanted to do this, it was the life his parents gave him as a 15 year old.

He was working with them, but what other choice did he have?  As I said before did you want him to just abandon the compound he was in with the only people he knew and solo it into the desert?  How long would a 15-year old survive alone in Afghanistan during the war?

His interrogators have admitted to torturing him, and another of his interrogators was convicted of torturing another detainee to death.

The worst part is, all Canada has to do is ask for him to be returned to Canada to face trial here, where there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict him.  But, the Canadian government would rather him be tried in a kangaroo court.  He could easily be returned to Canada to face a fair trial, but our government refuses.

The Canadian Government knew he was being tortured and I think they may have know his innocence as well, but still failed to act, and still so today.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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