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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Buddhism and desire.
    #9091365 - 10/17/08 01:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

According to Buddhism, (correct me if I'm wrong), suffering is a result of desire.  We can't satisfy every craving that we have, and therefore we become unhappy.  The only way out of this dilemma is to remove all manifestations of craving and desire that we have.

However, with the advent of technology and sophisticated computer modeling and neuroscience, we will eventually be able to plug our minds into a completely virtual simulation--where pleasure, omnipotence, and everything that we want will be able to be instantly satisfied.

What's wrong with this solution to the problem of suffering?  Instead of removing desire, why not satisfy every desire?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deCypher]
    #9091409 - 10/17/08 02:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Who and where claimed that there might be something wrong with this alternative?

Personally, I think it is a really cool idea; however, I would still want to educate myself and be able to rid myself of desire, just because I don't like the idea of relying on something else to make me happy. Self-education doesn't obstruct in any way any kind of pleasure of the kind you suggest, but it would not diminish my self reliance in case of a sudden change. :grin:


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InvisibleblewmeanieS
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deCypher]
    #9091422 - 10/17/08 02:03 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
According to Buddhism, (correct me if I'm wrong), suffering is a result of desire.  We can't satisfy every craving that we have, and therefore we become unhappy.  The only way out of this dilemma is to remove all manifestations of craving and desire that we have.

However, with the advent of technology and sophisticated computer modeling and neuroscience, we will eventually be able to plug our minds into a completely virtual simulation--where pleasure, omnipotence, and everything that we want will be able to be instantly satisfied.

What's wrong with this solution to the problem of suffering?  Instead of removing desire, why not satisfy every desire?




I wonder what new insatiable desires might arise in the presence of such technology.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9091442 - 10/17/08 02:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

This discussion reminds me of "Ghost In The Shell" :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisiblederanger
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Registered: 01/21/08
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deCypher]
    #9091471 - 10/17/08 02:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
However, with the advent of technology and sophisticated computer modeling and neuroscience, we will eventually be able to plug our minds into a completely virtual simulation--where pleasure, omnipotence, and everything that we want will be able to be instantly satisfied.




or we would possibly get sick of this artificially induced gratification, unless of course we built the technology to put us into deep meditative states with greater ease.  if we could build something that could help tune us into ourselves, it would help us to discover the roots of our suffering.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deCypher]
    #9091483 - 10/17/08 02:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It is mental grasping which creates suffering, and not desire.  Since the ultimate desire is to circumvent mortality, we can never be free from desire.  An important concept in Buddhist thought is that all things are impermanent, and subject to decay and loss.  Since this is an essential quality of materiality, loss and death are inevitable.  No amount of neural stimulation will alter the nature of existence, so this method will not end suffering.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: Veritas]
    #9091507 - 10/17/08 02:22 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
It is mental grasping which creates suffering, and not desire.




is desire not a form of mental grasping?


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InvisibleblewmeanieS
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deranger]
    #9091516 - 10/17/08 02:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
It is mental grasping which creates suffering, and not desire.




is desire not a form of mental grasping?




That is the point that she was making.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9091526 - 10/17/08 02:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

then how does desire not create suffering?


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InvisibleblewmeanieS
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deranger]
    #9091539 - 10/17/08 02:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Desire has a source as well. You cannot remove desire by removing desire, as it isn't a thing, it is a label that we place upon one certain aspect of mental grasping.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deranger]
    #9091540 - 10/17/08 02:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The experience of desire is merely an expression of preference, as is the experience of aversion.  If it is not followed by neurotic grasping, it does not create suffering.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: Veritas]
    #9091578 - 10/17/08 02:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i just see a similarity between the two, that is all.

blewmeanie - desire is a label just as grasping is a label.  both are mental processes that have their similarities.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deranger]
    #9091589 - 10/17/08 02:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Grasping is dependent upon desire/craving, so the two are clearly different and separate from one another.  I've heard them described as links in the chain which binds us to suffering. If one wishes to break the chain, the logical place to begin is with the mental habit of grasping at that which we crave.  As biological entities, it seems likely that desire is simply part of the structure.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: Veritas]
    #9091597 - 10/17/08 02:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

gotcha.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deranger]
    #9091599 - 10/17/08 02:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: Veritas]
    #9091656 - 10/17/08 03:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
It is mental grasping which creates suffering, and not desire.  Since the ultimate desire is to circumvent mortality, we can never be free from desire.  An important concept in Buddhist thought is that all things are impermanent, and subject to decay and loss.  Since this is an essential quality of materiality, loss and death are inevitable.  No amount of neural stimulation will alter the nature of existence, so this method will not end suffering.




How about when our technology comes to the point where we can circumvent aging?  How does practical immortality fit into the Buddhist scheme?

(And aren't you grasping at not grasping?)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: deCypher]
    #9091884 - 10/17/08 04:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

We will never invent technology which will circumvent the fact that materiality is impermanent.  :shrug:

Grasping at not grasping?  Methinks you're grasping at straws. :wink:


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InvisibleblewmeanieS
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: Veritas]
    #9091924 - 10/17/08 04:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Is that like the hair color of bald?


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9091978 - 10/17/08 04:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Or the religion of atheism?  :wink:  BTW, your new sig makes me giggle. 


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Buddhism and desire. [Re: Veritas]
    #9092199 - 10/17/08 05:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
We will never invent technology which will circumvent the fact that materiality is impermanent.  :shrug:

Grasping at not grasping?  Methinks you're grasping at straws. :wink:




Are you saying that we'll never be able to circumvent old age or death?  I think this is highly unlikely.

And doesn't the whole concept of Buddhism require you to desire not to desire?


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