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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: zouden]
    #9094120 - 10/17/08 10:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, Strassman has been quite clear about the non-basis of his ideas. :grin:  The research he conducted involved giving about 400 doses of DMT to 60 volunteers over the period of the study.  He spoke to the volunteers about their experiences, and invented his own ideas about the pineal gland, the soul being "injected" into the body at the 49th day of conception, the release of DMT at death, and so on.  He has absolutely no scientific support for these ideas--they are pure conjecture.

Since his book has been widely promoted as "scientific research," many readers assume that his ideas are actually supported by scientific evidence.

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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
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Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: zouden]
    #9094245 - 10/17/08 10:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Oh good, that's much more reasonable. You can see my problem though - obviously people read it and assume that it's true, enough for me to think that he's actually outright claiming it. In that case the problem isn't really with Strassman, it's with the people who read his work with an uncritical eye.





because those people are idiots

he states that these are merely his hypotheses and that no research has been done in those areas.  again, people like to either skip over or forget about that part


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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OfflineDreamSignals
Morphogenetic Truth


Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 476
Loc: the void
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: demiu5]
    #9094465 - 10/17/08 11:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Actually I am convinced that DMT is produced naturally in the brain.

I did a research paper on mystical states of consciousness, a scientific report on Meditation and the Brain found trace amounts of an LSD-like compound in the brain, along with Melatonin, another similar tryptamine. Melatonin is produced in the pineal, and also plays a role in REM sleep cycles.

It's not too hard to hypothesize that using breathing exercises, yoga, meditation, fasting, what-have-you, a human being would be capable of lowering his metabolic production of amylase, which is the enzyme responsible for breaking down DMT in the blood (thus why you take an MAOI with DMT when consumed orally) and in turn having a mystical out of body experience.

My psychology teacher seemed to like this theory. Who knows, maybe the Extra-terrestrials his subjects were conversing with in his book know more about the human brain than we do.

I also don't think it's entirely impossible that we were indeed, the product of another form of life more advance than us. After all, we can create life in petri dish's, they just chose a bigger one...


--------------------

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. (93)
Love is the law, love under will. (93 93/93)

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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: DreamSignals]
    #9094565 - 10/17/08 11:45 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

most people don't outright deny it, and some of the precursors to n,n-dmt are produced in the brain, but there has not been any medical finding connecting dmt to the pineal gland


however, dmt has been found in ug amounts in the bloodstream.  still no explanation for this, but it is an endogenous chemical (ain't it great, every human is carrying and producing a schedule one substance)



however, if you had read my first post in this thread, i wouldn't have to be repeating any of this


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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OfflineCptnGarden
fuck this site

Registered: 05/13/04
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Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: demiu5]
    #9094706 - 10/18/08 12:13 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

DMT has been detected in the human body, but to science there is no clear view of why its been detected.

many people theorize and hypothesize, and in the end the only thing that stands true is that its produced naturally in your body.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: CptnGarden]
    #9094812 - 10/18/08 12:41 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It binds to dedicated receptors in the amygdala (TA receptors), most probably to modulate anxiety.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: zouden]
    #9095373 - 10/18/08 06:39 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

dmt natural in the brain is not science,
one scientist only Dr. Strassman, has hypothesised that it might be there.
no scientist has EVER found it there.
it is not endogenous!!

thousands of non-scientists have written books and papers about it being there simply because of richard's comments, and it is not even his field of expertise, he is just an enthusiast!

many of those people will swear that it really was scientifically discovered there.
just because they want it to be true.

now hundreds of thousands or millions of people just a shade less intelligent perhaps totally believe that DMT is the Spirit Molecule. SOME ARE DOCTORS AND LAWYERS, JUDGES AND PSYCHIATRISTS. I would think they would check their references.

this is the attack from mars by Orson wells on the radio all over again
mass hysteria at the slightest provocation - they just want to believe.



there are no references for scientific bioassay of naturally occuring DMT in human brain tissue.
none at all.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Offlinezouden
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Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9095645 - 10/18/08 10:02 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
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Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium Flag
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: zouden]
    #9095660 - 10/18/08 10:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Offlinezouden
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Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9095668 - 10/18/08 10:08 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Endogenous hallucinogens as ligands of the trace amine receptors: A possible role in sensory perception
Quote:

While the endogenous hallucinogens, N,N-dimethyltryptamine, 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, have been acknowledged as naturally occurring components of the mammalian body for decades, their biological function remains as elusive now as it was at the time of their discovery. The recent discovery of the trace amine associated receptors and the activity of DMT and other hallucinogenic compounds at these receptor sites leads to the hypothesis that the endogenous hallucinogens act as neurotransmitters of a subclass of these trace amine receptors...




Endogenous psychoactive tryptamines reconsidered: an anxiolytic role for dimethyltryptamine
Quote:

The presence of the potent hallucinogenic psychoactive chemical N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in the human body has puzzled scientists for decades. Endogenous DMT was investigated in the 1960s and 1970s and it was proposed that DMT was involved in psychosis and schizophrenia...




The Potential of Trace Amines and Their Receptors for Treating Neurological and Psychiatric Diseases
Quote:

a family of 18 mammalian receptors has recently been identified that appear to exhibit selectivity toward the so-called trace amines.




--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: zouden]
    #9095724 - 10/18/08 10:35 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Oh good, that's much more reasonable. You can see my problem though - obviously people read it and assume that it's true, enough for me to think that he's actually outright claiming it. In that case the problem isn't really with Strassman, it's with the people who read his work with an uncritical eye.




Man, this is usually the problem. Most people distort what they read (I'm often no exception) to align with their subjective belief system.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9095890 - 10/18/08 11:40 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
no scientist has EVER found it there.
it is not endogenous!!




Yeah, according to those links that Zouden posted, there's definitely evidence for endogenous DMT although we're not sure of its function.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,066
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: zouden]
    #9095915 - 10/18/08 11:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Endogenous hallucinogens as ligands of the trace amine receptors: A possible role in sensory perception
Quote:

While the endogenous hallucinogens, N,N-dimethyltryptamine, 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, have been acknowledged as naturally occurring components of the mammalian body for decades, their biological function remains as elusive now as it was at the time of their discovery. The recent discovery of the trace amine associated receptors and the activity of DMT and other hallucinogenic compounds at these receptor sites leads to the hypothesis that the endogenous hallucinogens act as neurotransmitters of a subclass of these trace amine receptors...




Endogenous psychoactive tryptamines reconsidered: an anxiolytic role for dimethyltryptamine
Quote:

The presence of the potent hallucinogenic psychoactive chemical N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in the human body has puzzled scientists for decades. Endogenous DMT was investigated in the 1960s and 1970s and it was proposed that DMT was involved in psychosis and schizophrenia...




The Potential of Trace Amines and Their Receptors for Treating Neurological and Psychiatric Diseases
Quote:

a family of 18 mammalian receptors has recently been identified that appear to exhibit selectivity toward the so-called trace amines.







these are not scientific papers that indicate DMT is natural or endogenous
they are merely papers that use scientific language to say that such chemicals might occur.
this is like saying there might be life on URANUS or at least on TITAN, and then computing the water content of rock.
or maybe WMD in IRAQ?

in none of these documents has any actual BIOASSAY of DMT been accounted.
that is called hypothesis, it is not scientific fact, and no experiments have been contrived or performed and then published which corroborate any facts about the occurrance.

all you have is eloquent echoes of the possibility.
the acceptance of conjecture like this seems very odd among people who can pronounce or at least block copy words like
N,N-dimethyltryptamine, 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
which are not ENDOGENOUS even though you can quote irresponsible scientists who have no proof but string those words together as if they were factual.

golly! this is like Mckenna telling us all about DNA, or like George Bush leading America.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
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Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9095933 - 10/18/08 11:52 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

DMT has been found in every mammal they've tested for it.

I think its a pretty good hypothesis that its naturally produced in our brain. Why not in the pineal gland?

I think DMT is a part of the puzzle, but not the sole "spirit molecule."

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Posts: 38,066
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9095942 - 10/18/08 11:56 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
DMT has been found in every mammal they've tested for it.

I think its a pretty good hypothesis that its naturally produced in our brain. Why not in the pineal gland?

I think DMT is a part of the puzzle, but not the sole "spirit molecule."




again, NO ACTUAL REFERENCES this is just echoes and heresay.
thank god Halloween is 'round the corner,
that's the right set and setting for these fireside stories


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9096898 - 10/18/08 04:36 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Does http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/132/2/139 not concur that DMT is endogenously found in CSF? 

And from Potentially hallucinogenic 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor ligands bufotenine and dimethyltryptamine in blood and tissues, from Scandinavian Journal of Clinical and Laboratory Investigation, Volume 65, Issue 3 April 2005 , pages 189 - 199:

Quote:

Bufotenine and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) are hallucinogenic dimethylated indolethylamines (DMIAs) formed from serotonin and tryptamine by the enzyme indolethylamine N-methyltransferase (INMT) ubiquitously present in non-neural tissues. In mammals, endogenous bufotenine and DMT have been identified only in human urine. The DMIAs bind effectively to 5HT receptors and their administration causes a variety of autonomic effects, which may reflect their actual physiological function. Endogenous levels of bufotenine and DMT in blood and a number of animal and human tissues were determined using highly sensitive and specific quantitative mass spectrometric techniques. A new finding was the detection of large amounts of bufotenine in stools, which may be an indication of its role in intestinal function. It is suggested that fecal and urinary bufotenine originate from epithelial cells of the intestine and the kidney, respectively, although the possibility of their synthesis by intestinal bacteria cannot be excluded. Only small amounts of the DMIAs were found in somatic or neural tissues and none in blood. This can be explained by rapid catabolism of the DMIAs by mitochondrial monoamino-oxidase or by the fact that the dimethylated products of serotonin and tryptamine are not formed in significant amounts in most mammalian tissues despite the widespread presence of INMT in tissues.




--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9097267 - 10/18/08 06:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
these are not scientific papers that indicate DMT is natural or endogenous
they are merely papers that use scientific language to say that such chemicals might occur.
this is like saying there might be life on URANUS or at least on TITAN, and then computing the water content of rock.
or maybe WMD in IRAQ?

in none of these documents has any actual BIOASSAY of DMT been accounted.
that is called hypothesis, it is not scientific fact, and no experiments have been contrived or performed and then published which corroborate any facts about the occurrance.

all you have is eloquent echoes of the possibility.
the acceptance of conjecture like this seems very odd among people who can pronounce or at least block copy words like
N,N-dimethyltryptamine, 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
which are not ENDOGENOUS even though you can quote irresponsible scientists who have no proof but string those words together as if they were factual.




That's quite insulting. Here's some classics from the Journal of Biochemical Medicine. You don't have to read the abstracts if it doesn't agree with what you believe because obviously they're just putting words together and haven't done any actual experiments.

Gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric isotope dilution assay for N,N-dimethyltryptamine in human plasma
Biochemical Medicine, Volume 8, Issue 1, August 1973, Pages 105-113
R. W. Walker, H. S. Ahn, G. Albers-Schönberg, L. R. Mandel, W. J. A. Vandenheuvel
Quote:

An isotope dilution assay for the determination of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in human plasma has been developed. Dideutero-N,N-dimethyltryptamine is added to the plasma as a carrier, and also serves as an internal standard in a gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric analysis of the final isolate. Mass spectrometric isotope intensity ratios for two ions are used to calculate the amount of endogenous N,N-dimethyltryptamine in the isolate at a sensitivity limit of 0.5 ± 0.2 ng/ml plasma.




A gas chromatographic procedure for determining N, N-dimethyltryptamine and N-monomethyltryptamine in urine using a nitrogen detector
Biochemical Medicine, Volume 18, Issue 3, December 1977, Pages 410-419
M. C. H. Oon, R. Rodnight
Quote:

A gas chromatographic procedure for determining N, N-dimethyltryptamine and N-monomethyltryptamine in urine is described. The specificity of the procedure was validated by gc/ms. Analysis of urine samples from mentally ill subjects confirmed an earlier qualitative study showing significant tendency for dimethyltryptamine excretion to be increased in psychotic subjects.




The in vitro identification of dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in mammalian brain and its characterization as a possible endogenous neuroregulatory agent
Biochemical Medicine, Volume 18, Issue 2, October 1977, Pages 164-183
Samuel T. Christian, Robert Harrison, Elizabeth Quayle, John Pagel, John Monti
Quote:

The psychotomimetic agent dimethyltryptamine (DMT) has been identified as an endogenous compound in the central nervous system of rodents using a sensitive electron capture gas chromatographic technique. DMT along with its proposed precursor, tryptamine, were identified and quantitated as the heptafluorobutyryl derivatives. A specific high affinity binding site on synaptosomal membranes has been proposed for DMT. This proposal is based on equilibrium dialysis experiments which indicate that DMT at a concentration of 1 × 10−5 image will displace d-LSD on isolated membranes but will not displace bound serotonin at the same concentration. When DMT interacts with the synaptosomal membranes at a concentration of 5 × 10−10 image, the membrane-bound enzyme adenylate cyclase is stimulated such that adenosine3′, 5′-monophosphate (cAMP) is produced at a rate of 100 pmole/min/mg of protein (2.3 times the endogenous rate). It has also been shown that its presumed precursor, tryptamine, inhibits this process. LSD appears to exhibit a high affinity for the proposed DMT binding site but seems to have a low intrinsic activity. From data obtained in this study it has been postulated that DMT may have in vivo activity similar to those proposed for neurotransmitters or other neuroregulatory agents. These data further suggest that at least one mode of action of d-LSD may be the displacement of DMT from its binding site on the neuron.



I presume that article was written before the serotonin receptor subtypes were identified - that hypothesis for the mechanism of DMT & LSD is very different to what we know now! :laugh:

Anyway, I think we've established that DMT is endogenous and can move on...


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,066
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: deCypher]
    #9098023 - 10/18/08 09:56 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
Does http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/132/2/139 not concur that DMT is endogenously found in CSF? 

And from Potentially hallucinogenic 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor ligands bufotenine and dimethyltryptamine in blood and tissues, from Scandinavian Journal of Clinical and Laboratory Investigation, Volume 65, Issue 3 April 2005 , pages 189 - 199:

Quote:

Bufotenine and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) are hallucinogenic dimethylated indolethylamines (DMIAs) formed from serotonin and tryptamine by the enzyme indolethylamine N-methyltransferase (INMT) ubiquitously present in non-neural tissues. In mammals, endogenous bufotenine and DMT have been identified only in human urine. The DMIAs bind effectively to 5HT receptors and their administration causes a variety of autonomic effects, which may reflect their actual physiological function. Endogenous levels of bufotenine and DMT in blood and a number of animal and human tissues were determined using highly sensitive and specific quantitative mass spectrometric techniques. A new finding was the detection of large amounts of bufotenine in stools, which may be an indication of its role in intestinal function. It is suggested that fecal and urinary bufotenine originate from epithelial cells of the intestine and the kidney, respectively, although the possibility of their synthesis by intestinal bacteria cannot be excluded. Only small amounts of the DMIAs were found in somatic or neural tissues and none in blood. This can be explained by rapid catabolism of the DMIAs by mitochondrial monoamino-oxidase or by the fact that the dimethylated products of serotonin and tryptamine are not formed in significant amounts in most mammalian tissues despite the widespread presence of INMT in tissues.






that is very interesting
I would like to see the whole paper,
and would like to see any other related research.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9098035 - 10/18/08 09:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I just did a Pubmed search on endogenous DMT... There were quite a few studies, as well as the ones that Zouden posted.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,066
Re: DMT linked to the spiritual. [Re: zouden]
    #9098072 - 10/18/08 10:11 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
these are not scientific papers that indicate DMT is natural or endogenous
they are merely papers that use scientific language to say that such chemicals might occur.
this is like saying there might be life on URANUS or at least on TITAN, and then computing the water content of rock.
or maybe WMD in IRAQ?

in none of these documents has any actual BIOASSAY of DMT been accounted.
that is called hypothesis, it is not scientific fact, and no experiments have been contrived or performed and then published which corroborate any facts about the occurrance.

all you have is eloquent echoes of the possibility.
the acceptance of conjecture like this seems very odd among people who can pronounce or at least block copy words like
N,N-dimethyltryptamine, 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
which are not ENDOGENOUS even though you can quote irresponsible scientists who have no proof but string those words together as if they were factual.




That's quite insulting. Here's some classics from the Journal of Biochemical Medicine. You don't have to read the abstracts if it doesn't agree with what you believe because obviously they're just putting words together and haven't done any actual experiments.

Gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric isotope dilution assay for N,N-dimethyltryptamine in human plasma
Biochemical Medicine, Volume 8, Issue 1, August 1973, Pages 105-113
R. W. Walker, H. S. Ahn, G. Albers-Schönberg, L. R. Mandel, W. J. A. Vandenheuvel
Quote:

An isotope dilution assay for the determination of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in human plasma has been developed. Dideutero-N,N-dimethyltryptamine is added to the plasma as a carrier, and also serves as an internal standard in a gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric analysis of the final isolate. Mass spectrometric isotope intensity ratios for two ions are used to calculate the amount of endogenous N,N-dimethyltryptamine in the isolate at a sensitivity limit of 0.5 ± 0.2 ng/ml plasma.




A gas chromatographic procedure for determining N, N-dimethyltryptamine and N-monomethyltryptamine in urine using a nitrogen detector
Biochemical Medicine, Volume 18, Issue 3, December 1977, Pages 410-419
M. C. H. Oon, R. Rodnight
Quote:

A gas chromatographic procedure for determining N, N-dimethyltryptamine and N-monomethyltryptamine in urine is described. The specificity of the procedure was validated by gc/ms. Analysis of urine samples from mentally ill subjects confirmed an earlier qualitative study showing significant tendency for dimethyltryptamine excretion to be increased in psychotic subjects.




The in vitro identification of dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in mammalian brain and its characterization as a possible endogenous neuroregulatory agent
Biochemical Medicine, Volume 18, Issue 2, October 1977, Pages 164-183
Samuel T. Christian, Robert Harrison, Elizabeth Quayle, John Pagel, John Monti
Quote:

The psychotomimetic agent dimethyltryptamine (DMT) has been identified as an endogenous compound in the central nervous system of rodents using a sensitive electron capture gas chromatographic technique. DMT along with its proposed precursor, tryptamine, were identified and quantitated as the heptafluorobutyryl derivatives. A specific high affinity binding site on synaptosomal membranes has been proposed for DMT. This proposal is based on equilibrium dialysis experiments which indicate that DMT at a concentration of 1 × 10−5 image will displace d-LSD on isolated membranes but will not displace bound serotonin at the same concentration. When DMT interacts with the synaptosomal membranes at a concentration of 5 × 10−10 image, the membrane-bound enzyme adenylate cyclase is stimulated such that adenosine3′, 5′-monophosphate (cAMP) is produced at a rate of 100 pmole/min/mg of protein (2.3 times the endogenous rate). It has also been shown that its presumed precursor, tryptamine, inhibits this process. LSD appears to exhibit a high affinity for the proposed DMT binding site but seems to have a low intrinsic activity. From data obtained in this study it has been postulated that DMT may have in vivo activity similar to those proposed for neurotransmitters or other neuroregulatory agents. These data further suggest that at least one mode of action of d-LSD may be the displacement of DMT from its binding site on the neuron.



I presume that article was written before the serotonin receptor subtypes were identified - that hypothesis for the mechanism of DMT & LSD is very different to what we know now! :laugh:

Anyway, I think we've established that DMT is endogenous and can move on...




thanks for your updates, these do seem to describe valid tests for presence of DMT in serum, the first relates to endogenous human DMT,
but is out of context, so the meaning of endogenous is obscured as relates to naturally ocurring or administered but within the body at the time of testing.
(the distinction of which is what this thread is about)...

the other tests relate to mouse plasma tests apparently established to be used in experiments that clarify theretical comparison of lsd and dmt binding sites.
maybe if i had the whole documents I could see a realtionship to endogenous DMT, which is not apparent from the references as listed.


you are doing some good research, so far
I am impressed.


--------------------
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