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Offlineakb112211
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Registered: 09/10/07
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liberty cap variations
    #9079872 - 10/15/08 05:21 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

3 different types of ps. semilanceata?


I finally found what I think are Ps. Strictipes.

Notice the branching vein-like gills(not sure what this feature is called). These are more difficult to find as mature specimens in medium length grass.
Their widening umbo seem to get caught up in the grass causing them to curve and twist about. Also notice the wider bowl shape of the pins and semi-mature ones.

 
Would anyone consider A. and B. to be two different varieties of Libs?

I am considering this based on superficial observations still and have not observed them extensively yet. this is what I have considered so far.
Both were found on the same day, indicating similar conditions.
They were also both found in similar locations within 5-6 meters(under 20ft from each other). They were growing around and within tufts of grass surrounding cow dung. So, I would possibly conclude that they are two different organisms, not growing from the same mycelium.
First, the shape and size.
Type A. are obviously much larger and more substantial both in stipe girth(not length. This seems to have more to do with grass length) and cap size. Also, with type A, the cap seems to have distinct zones. They both pucker at the margin, but type B's cap is a continuous curve without undulations. This is most observable in the mature fruit. Starting with the nipple, the cap shoulders out, drops down and then becomes more bulbous at the bottom before closing in on the stipe. The colors of the zones some of the pins seem to indicate how they will grow and eventually look. Also, in type A, the cap is longer than it is wide. I have noticed that the others have more uniform, proportionate dimensions. Finally, though this could merely be from their size, but the mycelium seems tougher and woolier at the base of the stem. 

So, in conclusion, the most that I am hoping for as the season comes into full swing, is a clear distinction between different forms of liberty caps like you would find with Armillaria mellea. There is a chunky form and a slender form of the same species.
No real breakthrough here, just some interesting observations to think about the next time you are out picking.
Thanks for reading, and chime in if you like.

Oh, and I usually don't pick pins, but in this instance it was interesting to see the different stages of development.


--------------------
"There never was and never will be,
Nor is there now,
The wholly criticized
Or the wholly approved"

Edited by akb112211 (10/15/08 08:13 AM)

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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: liberty cap variations [Re: akb112211]
    #9079915 - 10/15/08 06:04 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Nice specimens and images!
I suspect them all to be Psilocybe semilanceata although the larger specimens in your second image with the bifurcate lamellae or brain like gills as you say seem to have a subdecurrent attachment which is more common in Ps. strictipes, the best way to tell would be to measure the spores under a microscope, Ps. semilanceata spores measure 12-14 by 7-8 microns, Ps. strictipes spores measure 10-12 by 5.5-8 microns.
Can you make a gill shot of the specimens in your first image?
I suspect the cause of the branched gills to be large fluctuations in humidity as the fruitbody forms!
inski..


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Edited by inski (10/15/08 06:18 AM)

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Offlineakb112211
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Re: liberty cap variations [Re: inski]
    #9079988 - 10/15/08 06:56 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i can't unfortunately. They're all dried up now. I'll make some more collections and dust off the microscope.
Thanks inski.
I am still finding it fascinating, the similarity characteristics of the fruits within in each individual organism and the variances from those of another one. Its as if each organism's fruiting bodies have superficialities that separate them in appearance from other semilanceatas. Or could this simply be a matter of their immediate environment? ie. grass, moisture, soil..etc and they are actually the same organism spread out over several meters?
Note: out of the several acres of pasture, this is the only spot where they fruit.

So, if the characteristics of their fruits are consistently distinguishable from one another, than would that be similar to say...varieties of apple trees? Or, would it be more like Psilocybe semilanceata var.____?
Know what I mean? perhaps this should be in the mycology forum.

I'd love to have the time to write a paper on this some day; whether proving or disproving myself in the end.


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Nor is there now,
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Or the wholly approved"

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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: liberty cap variations [Re: akb112211]
    #9080021 - 10/15/08 07:16 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The differences you note can be due to environmental  factors but lets say you collected all of the specimens from one area, all the fruitbodies from that one area are comprised of many different substrains of the same species with a wide genetic diversity that will show up in the macroscopic form, just the same as you see many different strains of Psilocybe cubensis with different forms!
I think if the characteristics are consistently distinguishable it may be grounds for naming a new variety:)
inski.


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Offlineakb112211
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Re: liberty cap variations [Re: inski]
    #9080128 - 10/15/08 08:17 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Cool, I'll keep observing. Maybe something interesting could come out of this some day.


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Nor is there now,
The wholly criticized
Or the wholly approved"

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Offlineakb112211
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Posts: 852
Loc: UKUSANetherlands
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Re: liberty cap variations [Re: akb112211]
    #9080207 - 10/15/08 08:50 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I'm an idiot. I didn't even notice this thread discussing different varieties.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Number=9040828

oh well, despite clogging up the board, its still relevant.


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"There never was and never will be,
Nor is there now,
The wholly criticized
Or the wholly approved"

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