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OfflineAZpat
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Registered: 09/14/08
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Loc: the desert SW
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contaminated rye every time.
    #9078774 - 10/14/08 09:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I need some advice. Ive been trying to colonize jars of organic rye grain for a few months and I get bacterial contamination in every single jar every time. (Im 0 for 75). I follow the RR tech, and inoculate in a glove box. Its not the syringes because Ive used many different syringes from different sources (most of them vendors from this site) and I get contams every time. PCing at 60 and 90 minutes both get me contams. Jars incubate with a filter disc fitted to a storage cap. About a week and a half after inoculation when colonization is around 20-40% I get that sweet rotting apples smell in every jar. I havent failed to fail yet but Im not ready to quit yet. I need to figure out what my problem is, any suggestions?

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Offlinespazn420
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: AZpat]
    #9078795 - 10/14/08 09:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Do you use gypsum?? Maybe you should start with the PF tek, its a lot easier.


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OfflineEcho7
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: spazn420]
    #9078859 - 10/14/08 10:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Man I had the same fucking problem with WBS, varied my method and vendor and even the house and materials used to sterilize and inoculate three separate times for a total of like 40 something quart jars, and not one made it.  Depressing as shit.  Do the PF Tek, and then make a liquid culture from one of your big potent shrooms.  Use this tek.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5874305#5874305

Then make working cultures from the master and if you can keep em sterile you'll have a (theoretically) infinite foundation from which to go from if you want to do bulks, more cakes, casings, etc.


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One step at a time.

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InvisibleShr00mZ
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: spazn420]
    #9078868 - 10/14/08 10:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Where do you store your jars at inoculation? How do you filter the air into them? Possibly double ur filters. I use polyfil and coffee filters now. I have recently acquired some tyvek.  You need to keep your jars a foot off the floor also. Most contams are at floor level.  I know its the perfect place to keep a large incubator. But to be honest just putting the jars on a shelf and incubating at room temp works great. That sucks you wasted that much time and money.


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Offlinespazn420
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: Echo7]
    #9078877 - 10/14/08 10:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Dude! EchoEclipse71, I fucking love your signature man!!:rofl2: I AM THE MAP!!! I use to watch that show blazed as shit! I love that show! LMAO


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OfflineAZpat
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: spazn420]
    #9078912 - 10/14/08 10:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Originally I was using gypsum, but on my current try I did some with and some without. Why do you ask?

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OfflineEcho7
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: spazn420]
    #9078916 - 10/14/08 10:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

spazn420 said:
Dude! EchoEclipse71, I fucking love your signature man!!:rofl2: I AM THE MAP!!! I use to watch that show blazed as shit! I love that show! LMAO




haha thanks man.  my little sister watches it and it sticks with me everywhere I go.  permeates the deepest recesses of my psyche... i swear...


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One step at a time.

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OfflineAZpat
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: Shr00mZ]
    #9078929 - 10/14/08 10:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've tried putting my jars in every possible place. Shelves, cabinets, inside containers, homemade incubator. Contams everywhere.

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Offlinentropic mind
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: AZpat]
    #9078998 - 10/14/08 10:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i was having the worst time with my grain jars, same success rate; what started working was letting the grain drain for about 3-5 hours, then using gypsum and adding vermiculite to the jars to absorb any possible excess moisture.  I'm guessing you PC and don't boil them, right?


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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-Arthur C. Clarke

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OfflineAZpat
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: ntropic mind]
    #9079011 - 10/14/08 10:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yeah PC, sometimes 60 and sometimes 90 minutes, same results.

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OfflineCapnSkoo
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: AZpat]
    #9079034 - 10/14/08 10:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

How wet was your grain when you loaded it into the jars? IME wet grain has a much better chance of catching some bacterial bugs. I just learned this lesson. I lost something like 18 qts to bacteria because of wet grain. The dryer jars of the same batch did beautifully.


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:dancer:Disco! Disco!:dancer:


"Lord its a Gift! Its a Gift from Above! Make it float like a Dove! Make it shout like Mike with a Rhinestone Glove!"
 

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OfflineAZpat
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Registered: 09/14/08
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: CapnSkoo]
    #9079113 - 10/14/08 11:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I let the grain dry for about 45 minutes, tossing the grain in a collander every few minutes to promote even dryness. It couldn't hurt to let it dry longer, so that's one things I'll try differently. I also wonder if I have too many jars in my pressure cooker.

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OfflineCapnSkoo
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: AZpat]
    #9079132 - 10/14/08 11:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I would think the number of jars would take a back seat to the size of the jars and the amount of spawn contained within. If incomplete sterilization was your concern that is.


--------------------
:dancer:Disco! Disco!:dancer:


"Lord its a Gift! Its a Gift from Above! Make it float like a Dove! Make it shout like Mike with a Rhinestone Glove!"
 

-I Need Money

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Offlinedothedew69
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: AZpat]
    #9079146 - 10/14/08 11:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You take the rye out of the colander when you let it drain or do you move it around to remove excess? How big is your pressure cooker? I don't think that would be an issue though. The gurus load up their PC with as many as can fit. But yea if it is too saturated it is more likely to contam. Have you watched RR videos or follow a written tech? He has an amazing DVD I would highly recommend getting. Here go check this out:

http://www.mushroomvideos.com/
or the direct link to the grain preparation video:
RR's Rye Preparation

The way he tests to see if it is dry enough he takes toilet paper (maybe 2-ply?) and has one square in which he puts a good pinch of the Rye Berries on and if it leaves no wet marks it is dry enough otherwise keep drying.

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Invisiblematits
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: dothedew69]
    #9079215 - 10/14/08 11:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I am having the same problem as well. Purple colored contams. Grey colored. Hell even some reds.

I know first hand on mine that it isn't a sterilization technique. I innoc'ed multiple jars, but left two just sit on a shelf.  All the knocked up ones contamed.  The 2 that set on the computer desk have nothing growing in them.

I use a still air glove box. I have done agar in it that box with no contams. I have grown out oyster mushy spores on it. I have cloned mushy flesh.  So what gives? I am thinking about knocking up the last 2 jars I have. 

The jars that contamed grew out. They Colonized all the way. Besides the dirty colors and the funky smell.  I am not even sure what the different mushies smell like.....I thought the way they smell was what the mushies actually smell like. Cause every batch I have ever done smell the same. I know the smell of oysters....just not the goodies I may have been trying to grow.

Maybe my jars arn't contamed. But I am not stupid enough or balsey enough to test the waters and try to case and fruit.


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---        ---
    Matits
---        ---
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Anything Matits says or insinuates is a lie and is totally constructed of lies. It is a fairy tale and should be taken at face value. Matits makes things up that are untrue. Any picture or statements made by Matits are made up or fabricated... like Trump's wig.


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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: matits]
    #9079287 - 10/14/08 11:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You are getting bacterial contam most likely because your grain is too wet.  Soaking and draining grain alone will not dry it off sufficiently.  You must boil grain for 10 min (no more) then immediately drain in strainers mixing/tossing it every 5 minutes for about a half hour until the outside of the grain has a dry look to it.


--------------------
Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.

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Offlinestormshroomer
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: AZpat]
    #9079708 - 10/15/08 02:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

your grain is probably too wet when you put them in the jar, i had similar priblems untill i started using my wifes blow dryer

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Invisibleseven
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: stormshroomer]
    #9079750 - 10/15/08 03:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

stormshroomer said:
your grain is probably too wet when you put them in the jar, i had similar priblems untill i started using my wifes blow dryer


ding ding!  it works. i used a blow dryer on my wbs. you want the outside of the grain to be dry. also make sure you soak the grain for 24 hours or more to germinate any nasty endospores, so they dont survive the Pressure Cooker cycle.


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grind

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: contaminated rye every time. [Re: stormshroomer]
    #9079756 - 10/15/08 03:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

A few ways to tell if your grain is too wet.

Pick up some in your hand and tillt your hand to 90 degrees. If a ton of grain sticks to your hand, its too wet.

Put some on a peice of kitchen towen and do the same, the grain shouldnt little to no moisture on the kitchen towel.

Remember, all the moisture is inside the grain. When pressure cooked, grains should look dry.

Follow the teks exactly, grains must be soaked for 24 hours to allow bacterial endospores to germinate, making them susceptible to pressure cooking. There are bacterial endospores that can survive pressure cooking.

Also, your filter must remain dry, a dry filter will allow contaminations to grow right through the filter.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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