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Psilly Rabbit
Underground Chemist



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 393
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Experimental Technique Question
#9072819 - 10/13/08 07:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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This question is aimed toward anyone with experience in psilocybe cubensis cultivation. What do you suppose would happen, if I were to take a few teaspoons of karo syrup and place them in a jar of vermiculite, and subsequently inoculate them with a syringe, using aseptic technique, of course? Please note that I have grown several times in the past using Rye, BRF, etc. I am simply trying to return to the basics in order to formulate my own experimental Teks.
Would the mycelium take hold as easily as it would in lets say a liquid culture? Would the growth stop at the mycelial phase, or would the growth colonize to 100% like a BRF cake or rye grain? Why or why not?
I am trying to do some experiments with substrates, and the way I understand it, is that the mycelium of course needs nutrients, adequate air exchange(considering it is in a jar), and some medium in which to grow. Am I missing something?
-------------------- "But first the notion that man has a body distinct from his soul is to be expunged; this I shall do, by printing in the infernal method, by corrosives, which in Hell are salutary and medicinal, melting apparent surfaces away, and displaying the infinite which was hid. If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern."
-William Blake
Edited by Psilly Rabbit (10/13/08 08:08 PM)
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MycoAu
5thKingdomCome


Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 4 years, 30 days
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: Psilly Rabbit]
#9073115 - 10/13/08 08:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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First, the straight honey/karo on vermiculite will prevent colonization and may even cause cell death due to tonicity issues.
Second, you'll probably have problems sterilizing this kind of set up without carmelizing the sugars present in the honey/karo.
If you're set on trying this type of experiment, I recommend mixing up some 3-4% karo in water, soaking vermiculite in it until damp (not dripping wet) and then lightly filling a few pint jars for sterilization. 15 minutes @ 121*C @ 15 psi. Be sure to leave plenty of space between the jars and any surface in the PC other than the rack they sitting on. (At least 1 inch space all-the-way-around)
Given the small amount of available moisture and food, you'll probably get some immediate, fast growth and then stalling or out-right death within a short period of time.
I wouldn't expect great results from this, but what the heck, give it a shot.
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: Psilly Rabbit]
#9073129 - 10/13/08 08:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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i think you may get growth if everything is steril. I like experiments but just adding karo to verm wouldnt make very good food for good growth and fruiting. and would lack alot if you plan to spawn to a bulk because alot of the nutes that support a flush come from the spawn. i think you would see growth.
-------------------- grind
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Psilly Rabbit
Underground Chemist



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 393
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: MycoAu]
#9073138 - 10/13/08 08:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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So even with a proper amount of Distilled H20, and inoculation from a Liquid Culture, this method is pretty much doomed to failure? I am trying to go beyond conventional means of cultivation, by experimenting with techniques of my own. However, I am trying to go down to the micro level to understand the very basics of what it means to propogate a mycelium; such as nutrients(particularly what kind of nutrients), tonicity, volume, and air exchange. In doing so, I look to develop some of my own substrate ideas and test them.
-------------------- "But first the notion that man has a body distinct from his soul is to be expunged; this I shall do, by printing in the infernal method, by corrosives, which in Hell are salutary and medicinal, melting apparent surfaces away, and displaying the infinite which was hid. If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern."
-William Blake
Edited by Psilly Rabbit (10/13/08 08:47 PM)
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musher_420
Stranger

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 2,691
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: Psilly Rabbit]
#9073162 - 10/13/08 08:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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What would you achieve. Just proving you can get growth? Or are you trying to find a way of producing a BRF type cake without BRF. Or are you trying make spawn jars better than grain?
I see how it could be done so that every thing is there for mycelium growth but will it better than any of the teks already in use... I doubt it.
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Psilly Rabbit
Underground Chemist



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 393
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: musher_420]
#9073178 - 10/13/08 08:54 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am a researcher by nature. I would like to develop some of my own ideas, and contribute to the site by providing my own insights into the growth process.
You see, while I have had the formal chemistry, etc. The extent of my biology, was Botan, Zoology, Anatomy & Physiology, Microbiology, Cellular and Molecular Biology, Genetics, and Applied micro. Mycology was barely touched on, so I am not as suited in mycology as I am in chemistry for instance. However, if I can understand the basic principles at their most fundamental levels, then I can achieve my goal. I simply love the science, and find mycology to be a very interesting hobby.
-------------------- "But first the notion that man has a body distinct from his soul is to be expunged; this I shall do, by printing in the infernal method, by corrosives, which in Hell are salutary and medicinal, melting apparent surfaces away, and displaying the infinite which was hid. If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern."
-William Blake
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musher_420
Stranger

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 2,691
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: Psilly Rabbit]
#9073214 - 10/13/08 09:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fair enough.
But with all them things your knowin why the hell would you use Karo as a food source?
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Psilly Rabbit
Underground Chemist



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 393
Loc: 127.0.0.1
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: musher_420]
#9073232 - 10/13/08 09:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Experimentation. I simply took note of how mycelium took to a Karo liquid culture, and formed a hypothesis.
I am not trying to one-up anyone, or disprove anything. I am simply looking into new frontiers, other than rye grain, brown rice flour, etc. I asked myself, if the mycelium can grow in this liquid culture, can it do the same in vermiculite with only Karo and distilled H20?
If it fails, then my answer will be no. If it succeeds, then I will research into it a bit more. Trial and error.
-------------------- "But first the notion that man has a body distinct from his soul is to be expunged; this I shall do, by printing in the infernal method, by corrosives, which in Hell are salutary and medicinal, melting apparent surfaces away, and displaying the infinite which was hid. If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern."
-William Blake
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Nuzzle
Misunderstood



Registered: 09/29/08
Posts: 840
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: musher_420]
#9073244 - 10/13/08 09:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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wow... big words... big words...and more, big words... lol
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**If you have any spare spore prints lying around, and your feeling 'giving' drop me a PM**
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: Psilly Rabbit]
#9073270 - 10/13/08 09:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I like experimenting also I gathered materials for substrate from the woods. Then I boiled some potatoes with a little bit of honey in the water, took out the potatoes, and dumped the water in the substrate. I have it hanging out to dry. I'll definitly PC this before I use it in the future.
-------------------- .6th and 7th sense theory
.Now is forever. .ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞTheﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞUnseenﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ is seenﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ by the blindﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ eye.ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ.When the inevitable time comes, go with your head held high,without regret or remorse, in your subconscious mind.
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 5 years, 14 days
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: teknix]
#9074722 - 10/14/08 04:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dont use distilled water. Save that for spores syringes. Water has minierals that are benificial to mycelium.
--------------------
PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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omu_negru
rookie




Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 159
Last seen: 6 months, 27 days
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: veda_sticks]
#9074728 - 10/14/08 04:56 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Basically the way i see it you'd better gear your research twards finding a food source for myc that doesnt have a shitload ammount of germs on it in the first place ( grains usually do ).
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: Experimental Technique Question [Re: omu_negru]
#9075011 - 10/14/08 07:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Canned Hominy.
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