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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: awesomebastard]
    #9077730 - 10/14/08 06:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Depending on the size of the blotter, duration of trip, a little bit of what you saw.

Would help atleast reduce the amount of things it could be. I know that DOX chemicals are a real mind fuck.

When I talked I heard what I said in reverse. Everyone else heard what I said normal, but I got really anxious hearing me sound like that, that people would know I was high. That was 3mg DOM.


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Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9077785 - 10/14/08 07:07 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
Are you suggesting that the N is directly connected to the O?




No, not at all.  I'm just saying I would write it like that (Et2NOC- instead of Et2NCO-) if I were using that sort of notation.


Basically, it's like the difference between writing benzamide as:
Instead of writing it like this:

You'll notice from that red box in the first image that ChemDraw doesn't recognize that as a legitimate notation for an amide. R2NOC- or -CONR2  are acceptable notations; R2NCO- or -OCNR2 are not, AFAIK.


Though personally, I'd avoid the whole can of worms by writing it like this:

Edited by Entropymancer (10/14/08 07:18 PM)

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9077868 - 10/14/08 07:23 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

mhm it would be good if chemists were less anal about their notations - in the end there are many different acceptable ways to write a chemical in a certain context. For, although different orders of the letters are significant for certain reasons, there is only one reasonable way to construct Et2NCO / Et2NOC

or is there another?


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9077959 - 10/14/08 07:39 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
mhm it would be good if chemists were less anal about their notations




I very much disagree. If chemists weren't anal about notation, then things would get messy and ambiguous. Chemists are particular about notation because it's important for everyone to be able to understand what's being expressed.  That's like saying mathematicians should be less anal about the order of operations; without it, there's chaos

Quote:

- in the end there are many different acceptable ways to write a chemical in a certain context.




Yes, there are. That's why I don't feel that chemists are overly particular about it: you have a wide array of notations to choose from, you can pick whichever you are most comfortable with, as long as you follow the necessary conventions.

Quote:

For, although different orders of the letters are significant for certain reasons, there is only one reasonable way to construct Et2NCO / Et2NOC

or is there another?




There is no reasonable way to construct Et2NCO-, that's the problem.  The oxygen is marked as being bonded to the ring system, which leaves the carbon's valence shell unsatisfied.  It's obvious that the person who drew it meant for it to be an amide, but it can't be an amide if the oxygen is bonded to the ring.

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9078081 - 10/14/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

As long as you dont start talking in conflicting notations, it shouldnt matter which convention you use as long as it is unambiguous.
So regardless of whether the O cant join the carbon to the lysergic, is there any other way that you can arrange Et2NCO?

other than the way it is in LSD?


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9079273 - 10/14/08 11:34 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I don't understand the question.  Regardless of what notation you're using, that molecule is drawn with the oxygen bonded to the ring.  There is no way to arrange it to form a molecule where the valence shells of all atoms are satisfied.

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9079710 - 10/15/08 02:31 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well, once you get over this idea that you need to write the compound in a way that represents its physical structure, how many chems could it be? just imagine that the O was connecting the C to the lysergic. you can see that there is no way to balance if this is teh case. So you know that the O is not connecting to the lysergic. 


I am trying to work out what chemical it could possibly be other than LSD. if it can only be LSD then it is unambiguously LSD and thus correctly written.


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9080495 - 10/15/08 09:56 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well, if we're discarding conventions and connecting the atoms any way we please, then it could be any of the following:




And regarding your claim:
Quote:

if it can only be LSD then it is unambiguously LSD and thus correctly written.




Even IF the only way to arrange it were as a diethylamide, it would still not be correctly written; it's written with the oxygen bonded to the ring, which is simply not correct.

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InvisibleDoseMeHomie
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: Entropymancer]
    #10184067 - 04/17/09 11:30 AM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:

And regarding your claim:
Quote:

if it can only be LSD then it is unambiguously LSD and thus correctly written.




Even IF the only way to arrange it were as a diethylamide, it would still not be correctly written; it's written with the oxygen bonded to the ring, which is simply not correct.




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OfflineIn_A_Transit
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Re: What substance is this? (Molecule diagram on LSD blotter, not LSD) [Re: DoseMeHomie]
    #10185207 - 04/17/09 02:44 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

This is the double-sided Hoffman Blotter. I felt it to be 125ug. range and it was quite bitter. Also on one corner of (25 hits) it looked ghostly pink.

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