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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9070370 - 10/13/08 10:11 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pinkfloydms said:
How the fuck would 1 vote in California be worth more than 1 vote in Wyoming under a true popular vote?




Ok, Ill try one more time...  A California citizen has among the most power of any citizen in the nation.  This is because California is so large, both with population and with economy.  The laws and regulations that California passes for its state often echo through the nation.  The policy that California voters choose sets precedent for the whole country.  When a California voter votes for governor, mayor and local propositions that voter is wielding much, much more power than when a Wyoming voter votes for governor, mayor and local propositions.  To balance this and make the political field more level for all citizens, the Wyoming voters gets a political subsidy when voting in national elections.  So the California voter has extra power by virtue of being in California and less say in a national election.  The Wyoming voter has less power by virtue of being in Wyoming, but more say in the national election.

Right or wrong, thats the reason it is the way it is.

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
Male

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9070376 - 10/13/08 10:13 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

You make 0 sense. I don't think you understand how a popular vote would work.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9070381 - 10/13/08 10:15 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

:doh:

I tired.  Maybe somebody else can explain it to you.

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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Folding@home Statistics
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Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9070406 - 10/13/08 10:22 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

That explanation does not demonstrate how one vote in California is given disproportionate weight compared to one anywhere else.

Also, can you show us an example of a law being created in California being a catalyst for same laws popping up around the rest of the states?

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
Male

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9070464 - 10/13/08 10:39 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Candidate (a) - 5,000,000 votes

Candidate (b) - 4,000,000 votes

Candidate (a) wins.
How is this unfair? What do state lines have to do with this scenario?


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9070516 - 10/13/08 10:52 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Look, you dont have to agree with it; but you should be able to understand it at least.  Why do you think we have a house and a senate?  What purpose did the founding fathers have making both instead of only one?

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
Male

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9070525 - 10/13/08 10:55 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I understand the electoral college fine.

Your problem is your not understanding how a popular vote would work.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9070542 - 10/13/08 10:59 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

No, not how the electoral college works, but why it was set up that way to begin with.  I tried to explain it to you, but you said it made zero sense.

Of course I know how the popular vote works, Im not an idiot.  :rolleyes:

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
Male

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9070548 - 10/13/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well then why the hell do you think a person in Cali has more power when making a vote than a person in Wyoming?


Actually the electoral college was set up out of a compromise, some people wanted a true popular vote and others thought that the people were too stupid to make good choices so that's why it was created.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9070570 - 10/13/08 11:10 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

No, I never said anything like that.  The Wyoming person has more power with his one vote for president.  This is a subsidy to make up for the fact that by living in wyoming he has less political power in every other aspect.  But Ive already said that...

Also, it was not set up because they thought that people were too stupid... it was set up because small states didnt want to be bullied by large ones.  And they still dont to this day.

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
Male

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9070581 - 10/13/08 11:12 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

So explain to me again how they would be "bullied" when voting for a president under a popular vote that is nation wide?

And yes the electoral college was a compromise, you need to brush up on your history.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
Male

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9070599 - 10/13/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Origins of the Electoral College

The Constitutional Convention considered several possible methods of selecting a president.

One idea was to have the Congress choose the president. This idea was rejected, however, because some felt that making such a choice would be too divisive an issue and leave too many hard feelings in the Congress. Others felt that such a procedure would invite unseemly political bargaining, corruption, and perhaps even interference from foreign powers. Still others felt that such an arrangement would upset the balance of power between the legislative and executive branches of the federal government.

A second idea was to have the State legislatures select the president. This idea, too, was rejected out of fears that a president so beholden to the State legislatures might permit them to erode federal authority and thus undermine the whole idea of a federation.

A third idea was to have the president elected by a direct popular vote. Direct election was rejected not because the Framers of the Constitution doubted public intelligence but rather because they feared that without sufficient information about candidates from outside their State, people would naturally vote for a "favorite son" from their own State or region. At worst, no president would emerge with a popular majority sufficient to govern the whole country. At best, the choice of president would always be decided by the largest, most populous States with little regard for the smaller ones.

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/INFORMATION/electcollege_history.php

A compromise.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9070623 - 10/13/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:  That post confirms what I said... That it had nothing to do with thinking the people are 'too stupid'.

Its so the small states arnt bullied by the large ones, just like the last sentence of your history lesson says.

Im not going to reply to you anymore in this thread, you already confirmed by point with your own post (plus, I dont really like your attitude.  :snub:).

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
Male

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9070637 - 10/13/08 11:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

:hissyfit:

Do you really think the leaders of the country are going to admit they think the general population are idiots? Although they are.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9071313 - 10/13/08 02:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pinkfloydms said:
So explain to me again how they would be "bullied" when voting for a president under a popular vote that is nation wide?





because california likes to pass retarded laws and insist the
other states follow suit, california is full of nuts and
flakes and everyone knows hippies and movie stars influence
the decisions of america because they're elitists and believe
they're better than everyone else so they try to intimidate
the other smaller states because california is so big and
powerful... at least that's what I gathered from his
explanation

poor wyoming, california is going to wage war on them if they
dont vote democrat

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
Male

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9071317 - 10/13/08 02:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

But we aren't talking about "laws" we are talking about voting for president, no?


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9071366 - 10/13/08 02:40 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
:lol:  That post confirms what I said... That it had nothing to do with thinking the people are 'too stupid'.




maybe ignorance would have been a better choice of words as
that's what the text claims.

Quote:

A third idea was to have the president elected by a direct popular vote. Direct election was rejected not because the Framers of the Constitution doubted public intelligence but rather because they feared that without sufficient information about candidates from outside their State, people would naturally vote for a "favorite son" from their own State or region.








Quote:

Quote:

At worst, no president would emerge with a popular majority sufficient to govern the whole country. At best, the choice of president would always be decided by the largest, most populous States with little regard for the smaller ones.




Its so the small states arnt bullied by the large ones, just like the last sentence of your history lesson says.




except since the radio and television and now the internet
it's much easier to pick a candidate, the whole 'bully' issue
is nullified, sure some states are largely republican or
democrat but recent elections have shown that the popular vote
is a better choice now since the electoral college doesnt
always follow the popular vote thus disenfranchising voters


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9071384 - 10/13/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pinkfloydms said:
But we aren't talking about "laws" we are talking about voting for president, no?




no but he certainly makes it clear that california is superior to the rest of the nation because their vote says so much more than our vote

californians are gods gift to voting


Quote:

DieCommie said:
Ok, Ill try one more time...  A California citizen has among the most power of any citizen in the nation.  This is because California is so large, both with population and with economy.  The laws and regulations that California passes for its state often echo through the nation.  The policy that California voters choose sets precedent for the whole country.  When a California voter votes for governor, mayor and local propositions that voter is wielding much, much more power than when a Wyoming voter votes for governor, mayor and local propositions. 



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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9071521 - 10/13/08 03:18 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

zouden said:
You guys should really think about abolishing the electoral college bullshit.




No thanks, the electoral college plays a key role in keeping powerful states in check.

Perhaps the electoral votes should be weighted, but thats about it.




Weighted electoral votes would be exactly the same as a popular vote.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: zouden]
    #9071531 - 10/13/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

no, it would be a popular vote delivered in discreet units.


I agree though.  People bitch about the feds, but their states have the authority to reform the electoral college by awarding votes proportionally.  That is what we should do, as well as having a instant runoff election.

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