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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
#9070370 - 10/13/08 10:11 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
pinkfloydms said: How the fuck would 1 vote in California be worth more than 1 vote in Wyoming under a true popular vote?
Ok, Ill try one more time... A California citizen has among the most power of any citizen in the nation. This is because California is so large, both with population and with economy. The laws and regulations that California passes for its state often echo through the nation. The policy that California voters choose sets precedent for the whole country. When a California voter votes for governor, mayor and local propositions that voter is wielding much, much more power than when a Wyoming voter votes for governor, mayor and local propositions. To balance this and make the political field more level for all citizens, the Wyoming voters gets a political subsidy when voting in national elections. So the California voter has extra power by virtue of being in California and less say in a national election. The Wyoming voter has less power by virtue of being in Wyoming, but more say in the national election.
Right or wrong, thats the reason it is the way it is.
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pinkfloydms
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Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9070376 - 10/13/08 10:13 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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You make 0 sense. I don't think you understand how a popular vote would work.
-------------------- Muppet Said: so yeah: - 'sex' five times - once with a man - once with a cadaver - and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes) Best story ever! www.panicstream.com
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
#9070381 - 10/13/08 10:15 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I tired. Maybe somebody else can explain it to you.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9070406 - 10/13/08 10:22 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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That explanation does not demonstrate how one vote in California is given disproportionate weight compared to one anywhere else.
Also, can you show us an example of a law being created in California being a catalyst for same laws popping up around the rest of the states?
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pinkfloydms
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Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9070464 - 10/13/08 10:39 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Candidate (a) - 5,000,000 votes
Candidate (b) - 4,000,000 votes
Candidate (a) wins. How is this unfair? What do state lines have to do with this scenario?
-------------------- Muppet Said: so yeah: - 'sex' five times - once with a man - once with a cadaver - and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes) Best story ever! www.panicstream.com
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
#9070516 - 10/13/08 10:52 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Look, you dont have to agree with it; but you should be able to understand it at least. Why do you think we have a house and a senate? What purpose did the founding fathers have making both instead of only one?
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pinkfloydms
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Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9070525 - 10/13/08 10:55 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I understand the electoral college fine.
Your problem is your not understanding how a popular vote would work.
-------------------- Muppet Said: so yeah: - 'sex' five times - once with a man - once with a cadaver - and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes) Best story ever! www.panicstream.com
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
#9070542 - 10/13/08 10:59 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, not how the electoral college works, but why it was set up that way to begin with. I tried to explain it to you, but you said it made zero sense.
Of course I know how the popular vote works, Im not an idiot.
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pinkfloydms
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Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9070548 - 10/13/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well then why the hell do you think a person in Cali has more power when making a vote than a person in Wyoming?
Actually the electoral college was set up out of a compromise, some people wanted a true popular vote and others thought that the people were too stupid to make good choices so that's why it was created.
-------------------- Muppet Said: so yeah: - 'sex' five times - once with a man - once with a cadaver - and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes) Best story ever! www.panicstream.com
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
#9070570 - 10/13/08 11:10 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, I never said anything like that. The Wyoming person has more power with his one vote for president. This is a subsidy to make up for the fact that by living in wyoming he has less political power in every other aspect. But Ive already said that...
Also, it was not set up because they thought that people were too stupid... it was set up because small states didnt want to be bullied by large ones. And they still dont to this day.
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pinkfloydms
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Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9070581 - 10/13/08 11:12 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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So explain to me again how they would be "bullied" when voting for a president under a popular vote that is nation wide?
And yes the electoral college was a compromise, you need to brush up on your history.
-------------------- Muppet Said: so yeah: - 'sex' five times - once with a man - once with a cadaver - and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes) Best story ever! www.panicstream.com
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pinkfloydms
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Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9070599 - 10/13/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Origins of the Electoral College
The Constitutional Convention considered several possible methods of selecting a president.
One idea was to have the Congress choose the president. This idea was rejected, however, because some felt that making such a choice would be too divisive an issue and leave too many hard feelings in the Congress. Others felt that such a procedure would invite unseemly political bargaining, corruption, and perhaps even interference from foreign powers. Still others felt that such an arrangement would upset the balance of power between the legislative and executive branches of the federal government.
A second idea was to have the State legislatures select the president. This idea, too, was rejected out of fears that a president so beholden to the State legislatures might permit them to erode federal authority and thus undermine the whole idea of a federation.
A third idea was to have the president elected by a direct popular vote. Direct election was rejected not because the Framers of the Constitution doubted public intelligence but rather because they feared that without sufficient information about candidates from outside their State, people would naturally vote for a "favorite son" from their own State or region. At worst, no president would emerge with a popular majority sufficient to govern the whole country. At best, the choice of president would always be decided by the largest, most populous States with little regard for the smaller ones.
http://www.uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/INFORMATION/electcollege_history.php
A compromise.
-------------------- Muppet Said: so yeah: - 'sex' five times - once with a man - once with a cadaver - and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes) Best story ever! www.panicstream.com
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
#9070623 - 10/13/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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That post confirms what I said... That it had nothing to do with thinking the people are 'too stupid'.
Its so the small states arnt bullied by the large ones, just like the last sentence of your history lesson says.
Im not going to reply to you anymore in this thread, you already confirmed by point with your own post (plus, I dont really like your attitude. ).
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pinkfloydms
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Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9070637 - 10/13/08 11:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do you really think the leaders of the country are going to admit they think the general population are idiots? Although they are.
-------------------- Muppet Said: so yeah: - 'sex' five times - once with a man - once with a cadaver - and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes) Best story ever! www.panicstream.com
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
#9071313 - 10/13/08 02:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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pinkfloydms said: So explain to me again how they would be "bullied" when voting for a president under a popular vote that is nation wide?
because california likes to pass retarded laws and insist the other states follow suit, california is full of nuts and flakes and everyone knows hippies and movie stars influence the decisions of america because they're elitists and believe they're better than everyone else so they try to intimidate the other smaller states because california is so big and powerful... at least that's what I gathered from his explanation
poor wyoming, california is going to wage war on them if they dont vote democrat
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pinkfloydms
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9071317 - 10/13/08 02:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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But we aren't talking about "laws" we are talking about voting for president, no?
-------------------- Muppet Said: so yeah: - 'sex' five times - once with a man - once with a cadaver - and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes) Best story ever! www.panicstream.com
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9071366 - 10/13/08 02:40 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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DieCommie said: That post confirms what I said... That it had nothing to do with thinking the people are 'too stupid'.
maybe ignorance would have been a better choice of words as that's what the text claims.
Quote:
A third idea was to have the president elected by a direct popular vote. Direct election was rejected not because the Framers of the Constitution doubted public intelligence but rather because they feared that without sufficient information about candidates from outside their State, people would naturally vote for a "favorite son" from their own State or region.
Quote:
Quote:
At worst, no president would emerge with a popular majority sufficient to govern the whole country. At best, the choice of president would always be decided by the largest, most populous States with little regard for the smaller ones.
Its so the small states arnt bullied by the large ones, just like the last sentence of your history lesson says.
except since the radio and television and now the internet it's much easier to pick a candidate, the whole 'bully' issue is nullified, sure some states are largely republican or democrat but recent elections have shown that the popular vote is a better choice now since the electoral college doesnt always follow the popular vote thus disenfranchising voters
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
#9071384 - 10/13/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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pinkfloydms said: But we aren't talking about "laws" we are talking about voting for president, no?
no but he certainly makes it clear that california is superior to the rest of the nation because their vote says so much more than our vote
californians are gods gift to voting
Quote:
DieCommie said: Ok, Ill try one more time... A California citizen has among the most power of any citizen in the nation. This is because California is so large, both with population and with economy. The laws and regulations that California passes for its state often echo through the nation. The policy that California voters choose sets precedent for the whole country. When a California voter votes for governor, mayor and local propositions that voter is wielding much, much more power than when a Wyoming voter votes for governor, mayor and local propositions.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: DieCommie]
#9071521 - 10/13/08 03:18 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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DieCommie said:
Quote:
zouden said: You guys should really think about abolishing the electoral college bullshit.
No thanks, the electoral college plays a key role in keeping powerful states in check.
Perhaps the electoral votes should be weighted, but thats about it.
Weighted electoral votes would be exactly the same as a popular vote.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: zouden]
#9071531 - 10/13/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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no, it would be a popular vote delivered in discreet units.
I agree though. People bitch about the feds, but their states have the authority to reform the electoral college by awarding votes proportionally. That is what we should do, as well as having a instant runoff election.
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