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arpnuke
Always changing



Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 230
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it
#9064086 - 10/11/08 05:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I apologize for the dramatic title, but it carries a lot of truth. I remember first being depressed when I was a white kid in an inner-city black school system in about the 4th grade. There were times where things got good again, but I generally fight with it at least once a year for a period of months. What lead to this post was my last two or three trips. I tried to cure my depression with shrooms and lately mescaline, but both of them have left me kind of bummed even during the middle of them. I realize there is no point to this life except maybe suffering. Why should I stay here when there is no way to show people fully what they are doing to there people (thus leading to them stopping it). Look at all the school/workplace/college shooters going through immense pain and trying to show a bunch of people by killing a bunch of people by killing themselves. I get why they do that, but know it doesn't do anything but cause more pain in the world.
The bottom line is that I'm in a lot of emotional pain and see no end to it. I've had multiple psychiatrists/therapists and my current one was as interested in hallucinogens as I am. He's got a bookshelf behind him filled with 4 rows of books on psychedelics. Despite a really good shrink, he barely helps me at all and I know an anti-drug warrior will not even be helpful.
I want to study the therapeutic nature of psychedelics and apply them in therapy (money, helping people, and drugs) and have the hardware to do that, but my software says, "Fuck it, you might get arrested for possession of a schedule I psychedelic and be locked out for your entire life." Some of us try to help and yet the majority wants to do everything they can to rub some drug users face in it. "My God, and this one was so addicted he wanted to treat diseases... with DRUGS! 'Wonder whats on TV tonight?"
So lets get down to tripping treatments. Mushrooms get me asking why and I don't need any more analysis of why we do what we do. It's been made pretty clear and has shown me many of my and others unconscious motives. Mescaline is a wonderfully gentle psychedelic for being out in nature. It helped me more than mushrooms, but still not what I need. It's been a while since I tried LSD, but the intensity of the visuals, thinking change (enjoy life, not thin about WHY I DO THIS), and uplifting feeling seemed like the best for my mental state. On all substances I feel the presence of other beings and wonder if I should whip up some DMT. I feel as ready as I'm gonna be and the stuff I've read about ayahuasca and depression give me a lot of hope. Salvia?
Any of you guys put to bed long standing depression with or without psychedelics? Every time I've really thought about killing myself the thought, "I don't want to die, just not live like this," comes into my head.
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Orbital_Saucer
Other


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 551
Last seen: 15 years, 21 days
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9064150 - 10/11/08 05:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Psychedelics will not solve your problems. You are delusional if you have this mindset.
If I read this correctly, their past use has only made you more depressed, so why would you even consider continuing? If professional help is not working for you, then it really is up to you to deal with your issues.
The above was probably unduly harsh, so let me start again.
No one here, or anywhere can tell you what to put in your own body. These substances affect everyone differently. If you feel you need to trip to delve into these issues, than no one is going to sway you. The fact that these are criminal actions probably should not to play too heavily into your decision, for unless you are dealing with drugs for profit, it isn't likely you'll run into any legal repercussions.
Whatever your final decision is, I wish you the best of luck in confronting your demons.
Edited by Orbital_Saucer (10/11/08 06:00 PM)
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retrospect
Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,340
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Orbital_Saucer]
#9064294 - 10/11/08 06:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Try get on some antidepressants or maybe a really big dose of shrooms.
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Ram Dass
Challenger



Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 693
Loc: 2000 Feet Under the Sea
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: retrospect]
#9064319 - 10/11/08 06:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is no panacea which will release you from your hell. Psychedelics are not what you are looking for to cure yourself from depression, they're just not.
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davedes
Stranger
Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 41
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Ram Dass]
#9064370 - 10/11/08 06:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Low doses of these drugs might be useful in guiding therapy sessions, but attempting to 'cure' your depression by self-medicating a trip is a very bad idea.
Edited by davedes (10/11/08 07:00 PM)
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Psynsns
Stranger


Registered: 03/30/08
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9064508 - 10/11/08 07:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Pray. Get in touch with the power greater than yourself and watch what happens. This does not have to be couched in organized religion, but just a humble supplication to God to direct your life. Amazing changes should ensue if you follow the advice of your new friend.
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altitudes
Space Cadet


Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 220
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: davedes]
#9064512 - 10/11/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think the only way psych's could help you with depression is by revealing what is wrong with your life/what causes your depression and how you can fix it. The rest is up to you.
I know it sucks to think about this stuff when tripping, but I don't see any other way they could help your depression.
Depression sucks man, it really does. But usually the only ways to really solve the problem are hard emotional work. Psych's won't be something you can take and are magically cured or put into a state where you can enjoy life. Using other drugs like this could lead to addiction as well, so be careful.
Good luck!
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chris92346
Stranger

Registered: 09/10/05
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9064547 - 10/11/08 07:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Studies show that exercise is as effective or MORE effective than any other treatment for depression. Find something that you enjoy doing that is very active. It helps a bunch.
Also something I find that helps, set goals. Try to make them challenging but those that you are pretty sure you can do. Helps keep your head on straight when you are working towards something.
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1,246
Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9064563 - 10/11/08 07:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm in the same boat. My depression and extreme anxiety and panic attacks make my future seem bleak and hopeless. I went to a shrink at my college campus out of desperation and told him everything I was going through but really what can they do? The only time I felt really helped was when my dad led me to this woman who talked in tongues and gave me insight into what I was going through in my life but I let that fall away. People like that are hard to come by and most people would dismiss it anyway. I've tried meds and taken psychadelics but I know my mental state more than likely will never improve. When I took ayahuasca I experienced what maybe was the "universal mind" and saw this 3-d energy grid to where I could communicate with anyone, just sitting on my bed. It was a unique experience and kind of fun. Maybe ayahuasca could be healing or give you some insight. It's a spiritual thing and something that you might need to fast for and watch what you eat and drink. I still give in so much to my self destructive cigerette smoking hard drinking ways that ayahuasca is not condusive to. I took it once when at a low energy level and was told by I guess the plant spirit of the vine to "get my energy up" so that I could be taught what it wanted to teach me. Out of everything I have researched Ibogaine is the only substance that I think can heal me to some degree. Reading a lot of peoples experiences of it as well as Daniel Pinchbeck's books about it I have a lot of hope for it. Many people experience kind of a life walkthrough and energy shift within, as well as being able to ask questions and have them answered by the spirit of the root. To most people this would sound crazy of course but on this board I'm sure many of had some experiences that this would sound plausable. It's just so damn expensive. So take this for what it's worth. I've been on a open suicide internet board (not for or against) and it was interesting. I hate the stupid bullshit of what you get on most of the don't commit suicide webs and sites which is as empty as much of mainstream society and media. Life still holds too many pleasures and surprises for me to go through with it and I'm glad your not going to do it.
-------------------- finality [faɪˈnælɪtɪ] n pl -ties 1. the condition or quality of being final or settled; conclusiveness. 2. a final or conclusive act Long live the Shroomery and I'm done with it.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 10 days
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: mr.bixby]
#9064634 - 10/11/08 08:20 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you know there are things wrong in the world, and it is this knowlege that keeps bringing you down, then assumedly the only 'cure' is to remove that knowlege.
Dont bother with that.
The world is depressing brother.
But if life was about suffering, then what is happiness? Is that a means for people to judge how lacking they are of suffering? Is it a mechanism to ensure people keep harming eachother for the instant gratification it can give to some?
Life has suffering because life is an incredibly complex, fragile organism with leaves that can fall off and bugs that infect it, and competition for sunlight, etc. Not everything can have a nice life.
In my oppinion, the best cure for your depression is to get out of the slum you live in (making assumptions here due to the fact that you call yourself a white boy in a black world full of suffering) and find people who have a similar appreciation of love and peace.
The world is huge. You cant get hung up on your place on the physical world until you have travelled far and wide - otherwise you have no idea what you are talking or thinking about when you consider the state of teh world
--------------------

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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Noteworthy]
#9064710 - 10/11/08 08:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah man, depression is a strange thing, and is different for everyone. Psychedelics have the potential to help you work through things, but then again there are many other tools besides psychedelics that can help you in the same manner. If you are looking to psychs for help, I would have to recommend ayahuasca, as it has proven itself quite successful in this area more so than other psychs. But the fact remains, the plants only give you access to higher realms of awareness, once you are there it is up to you to explore and search for the keys that may open the door to a solution. Besides psychedelics, maybe you should try taking a break from your usual life. Never mind your job, school, or even relationships. Just get out without plan or rationalization. Go to the desert, go fishing, go hike the appalachian trail or something. Maybe discover your spirituality. Meditate, surround yourself with positive energies, music, thoughts, influences. Depression is a disease of the mind, and the mind has the keys to cure it. Just remember that the key is always there, waiting to be discovered. Good luck man, hope you find something that will help. just keep searching, if you want something bad enough, it will come.
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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altitudes
Space Cadet


Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 220
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: satyr]
#9064760 - 10/11/08 08:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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+1 on the exercise!!
It's amazing what cardio can do for your state of mind. A good runners high is an amazing feeling mentally and physically. Nothing quite like an endorphine dump.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: satyr]
#9064771 - 10/11/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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it is definitely not easy. you can transform, but it takes a lot to unwind what is wound. doable, though difficult. the key is to drive your interest. this is what draws energy out of habit formed anxiety and diverts it to new patterns. it helps if the interest is outward oriented. good luck with kindling this kind of fire, and letting the other ones peter out.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
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513orangejuice
...



Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 397
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: redgreenvines]
#9064811 - 10/11/08 09:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
it is definitely not easy. you can transform, but it takes a lot to unwind what is wound. doable, though difficult. the key is to drive your interest. this is what draws energy out of habit formed anxiety and diverts it to new patterns. it helps if the interest is outward oriented. good luck with kindling this kind of fire, and letting the other ones peter out.
Wow. Wise words. Your the kinda person thats good to rap wit after munchin a phat bag of enlightenment. I hate that depression exists.
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- America is a rapist.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: 513orangejuice]
#9064974 - 10/11/08 09:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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these things are stronger than anyone imagines. they can't be fought directly they have the power of many against one. just opposing makes it stronger - adds fuel.
finding a way to cope is a bit like being a double agent or being poker-faced with a good hand, and if you fight it has to be like aikido, indirect flowing moves to ground the opponent not to defeat.
the opponent is also self, so compassion is essential.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9065341 - 10/12/08 12:02 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Salvia can give good antidepressant effects.
Change is primarily up to you; psychedelics are tools that can help you get there, but the onus is still yours.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Nnflogg
Stranger


Registered: 05/20/08
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9065392 - 10/12/08 12:16 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know of someone who went through a schizophrenic episode, just like you, he actually went to a psych ward. His help was working the 12 steps of NA / AA. Get a sponsor and have him help you work the 12 steps. The 12 steps only say alcohol(or drugs) once, it's all about finding a higher power, mentioned before.
Good luck man.
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QuantumReality
Mycopath 🗡


Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 3,197
Loc: BoobyTraps
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9065462 - 10/12/08 12:50 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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dont rely on drugs to cure your depression, it wont work
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ShroomMan420
91' Til Infinity....



Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 1,232
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9065482 - 10/12/08 01:09 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm depressed to......
-------------------- I am excited for my thoughts to become positive and of lifeful things instead of negative and suicidal things - Oceanshore23Forest
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Entersandman
Wings of Tomorrow


Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 617
Loc: behind the border
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: ShroomMan420]
#9065629 - 10/12/08 04:13 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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i had a depression for years and i was ready to end this life But the more i took mushrooms and realized that this life is only a big theater tribune the better i felt myself.
this life is only a theater and we are the actors.we have the ability to change our lifes for a better one.
i have been taking mushrooms since winter 2004 and it took 4 years to realize what potential they have to change ones life for a better way. i have experienced situation which suprised me a great deal. i feel so good now.
psychedelics won´t change you but they can show you the ways to live a better life.that sounds a bit romantic of course but it´s the experience i had and still have. a few months ago i realized the real power of entheogens and now i am trying to discover how mankind can use their 100 % force to become a perfect human with no illness, problems and so on.
i am using entheogens as medicine-i am interested in shamanism and the power of mind. psychedelics may alter your consciousness and in this state you can ask what you can do to cure your self.
i hope i can help you more than now but i am still discovering the secrets of the healing power of entheogens but i will be finished soon.
thanks for your attention and may the force be with you
--------------------
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retrospect
Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,340
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Entersandman]
#9065657 - 10/12/08 04:49 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah psychedelics might show you how to change, but they are not going to do the work for you. You gotta put the extra effort in. I used to have depression and went on some SSRIs, which helped cure the depression, but change me into a person I didn't like. I stopped taking the antidepressants abrubtly and went through some pretty shit withdrawals and straight back into depression.
A mescaline experience gave me a pretty good understanding of what was going on, and so I decided I needed to change my life. The steps I needed to take were alot of hard work for me, especially giving up pot for a long while, lol. I don't suffer from depression anymore, even though I still get a few off days every month or so, it's a hell of alot better. One thing that really does help as people mentioned above is exercise. I started surfing everyday which left me with a great feeling for the whole day. I basically thought of surfing as my anti depressant. And I also got a job so I didn't spend all day sitting around at home doing nothing. I can't say this will work for you, but it's what I needed.
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dothedew69
Relearning



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 624
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Entersandman]
#9065688 - 10/12/08 05:28 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Take a look into medicinal mushrooms if you want to try mushrooms. They seem to do wonderful things. Non-psychedelic.
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anyone420
mad buddah abuser



Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 5,956
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9065718 - 10/12/08 05:49 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Change your settings and get out of the rhythm of depression.
I recommend nature
like
Go camping for a weekend.
Go for a hike and bring buddah to burn. (always cheers me up)
Go to the beach
Adopt a pet. A dog that loves you is a precious thing.
I think you need to jostle yourself out of bad habits that add to your depressed nature. Be the change you want to see in your life.
The bottom line that a bunch of people have said, is that drugs are not going to cure your situation. Nor will shrinks. Shrinks simply nudge your line of thinking onto track, but the thoughts are yours to begin with. You don't need them.
-------------------- for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright
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Mark_W
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
Loc: NC
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: dothedew69]
#9065727 - 10/12/08 05:56 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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ok, you can call me naive, dumb, or whatever...but what the hell is depression? I mean this in a philosophical way, not in a Western medicine clinical "science" way.
It seems to me that depression would be a healthy response to the conditions we in the West are raised in...to an extent. Being pushed into a rat race, and dealing with the injustices of consumer capitalism and all of that...if someone dealt with that stuff happily, that's what I would call a disorder.
Basically, I'd say some Mdma can help the most for realizing what we as individuals and as a society can be...but we are so far gone from that ideal that I totally understand how people can get depressed, perhaps I am myself to a fair extent.
Anyways, good luck. Some of the greatest minds this world has ever known ever gone through periods of depression verging on suicide, many have found their God and been inspired to tell their story.
I don't want to downplay the seriousness of the matter, but I also don't want to feed into the western clinical model of "depressed" vs. "normal". I think all that is an oversimplification.
Don't listen to doctors. Think deeply about what sort of a of system they've been sent through, and that should cure you of any blind faith you may have in our medical system. There's more hope in that statement than I'm probably conveying. Trust yourself, your intuition, your inner-voice, your conscience, or whatever, over all else.
-------------------- Let the State Disintegrate -Leary
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 8,241
Loc: Samsara
Last seen: 2 months, 4 days
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: anyone420]
#9065741 - 10/12/08 06:06 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Life is filled with suffering, all brought on by ourselves. You have no idea how powerful and helpful Buddhist teachings would be to a person in your mind-set.
I recommend you find the nearest Mahayana Buddhist Center near you (they're quite numerous) and go to a few meetings. At least check it out online. Try buddhanet.net.
Between the meditation and dharma principals you will discover all the teks you need to control your depression and negative self and world-view. I promise!!!
Be well,
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Hiei
8======><=====8



Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 2,648
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Nature Boy]
#9065783 - 10/12/08 06:43 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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psychedelics don't cure depression, they MAY help just as they may make it worse.
And I'd say anyone420's advcice is a very good one!
PS: buddhism FTW!
-------------------- â—„â–ºÛžâ—„â–º
Edited by Hiei (10/12/08 06:49 AM)
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StreetFreak
smellin' like a plant


Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 946
Loc: locked in a place where n...
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Entersandman]
#9066183 - 10/12/08 10:24 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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you're into depression cuz it matches your eyes
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Abuse
end of the line


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 6,039
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: StreetFreak]
#9066359 - 10/12/08 11:22 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's not something to get into it's something you become involuntarily.
--------------------
Edited by Abuse (10/12/08 11:22 AM)
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ReefaCheefa
Gimme Reefer



Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 1,639
Loc: Florida
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Mark_W]
#9066761 - 10/12/08 01:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mark_W said: ok, you can call me naive, dumb, or whatever...but what the hell is depression? I mean this in a philosophical way, not in a Western medicine clinical "science" way.
It seems to me that depression would be a healthy response to the conditions we in the West are raised in...to an extent. Being pushed into a rat race, and dealing with the injustices of consumer capitalism and all of that...if someone dealt with that stuff happily, that's what I would call a disorder.
Basically, I'd say some Mdma can help the most for realizing what we as individuals and as a society can be...but we are so far gone from that ideal that I totally understand how people can get depressed, perhaps I am myself to a fair extent.
Anyways, good luck. Some of the greatest minds this world has ever known ever gone through periods of depression verging on suicide, many have found their God and been inspired to tell their story.
I don't want to downplay the seriousness of the matter, but I also don't want to feed into the western clinical model of "depressed" vs. "normal". I think all that is an oversimplification.
Don't listen to doctors. Think deeply about what sort of a of system they've been sent through, and that should cure you of any blind faith you may have in our medical system. There's more hope in that statement than I'm probably conveying. Trust yourself, your intuition, your inner-voice, your conscience, or whatever, over all else.
I can't point out how wrong you actually are. Do you realize its a disease of the mind? You cannot control any aspect of it, and many of us are left with very little energy and motivation to do the things we need to do to change our lifestyle.
Depression is definitely a serious matter, and I do believe that psychs can help depression, because I have experienced it first hand. It hasn't "cured" me, but so far I have regained normal sleeping habits and lots of lost energy.
Aside from that, just changing your surroundings, friends, and habits can also break you from depression. I am definitely going to start exercising after reading through this thread though. It has given me a lot of insight.
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Sammitch24
Stranger
Registered: 10/12/08
Posts: 4
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: ReefaCheefa]
#9066897 - 10/12/08 02:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Every emotion you feel is caused by some chemical in your brain, such as happiness, love, etc. Depression = that you have a level of whatever chemical is released when u are happy that is not considered normal. That is why you take anti depressants.
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Mark_W
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 347
Loc: NC
Last seen: 7 months, 13 days
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: ReefaCheefa]
#9066940 - 10/12/08 02:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ReefaCheefa said: Do you realize its a disease of the mind? You cannot control any aspect of it...
These are the common western medical "science" assertions that I'm calling into question. I think we have more control over depression than the medical establishment would suggest. We in the West are a culture of popping pills to treat whatever "disease" (uncontrollable by us, but conveniently very controlable with pharmaceuticals), or so we are told).
-------------------- Let the State Disintegrate -Leary
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Mark_W
Stranger
Registered: 05/19/07
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Sammitch24]
#9066975 - 10/12/08 02:52 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sammitch24 said: Every emotion you feel is caused by some chemical in your brain, such as happiness, love, etc. Depression = that you have a level of whatever chemical is released when u are happy that is not considered normal. That is why you take anti depressants.
This is the kind of oversimplification that doesn't really satisfy, as people are comprised of spirit and matter. Our thoughts affect our happiness just as happiness affects our thoughts.
Go to erowid and read reports by people who've been prescribed anti-depressants, its certainly not as cut and dried as you are presenting it. Most of the time they report the drug doing more harm to them than good.
-------------------- Let the State Disintegrate -Leary
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Hiei]
#9067046 - 10/12/08 03:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hiei said: psychedelics don't cure depression, they MAY help just as they may make it worse.
Agreed.
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PS: buddhism FTW!
Forgive my ignorance, but what does FTW stand for?
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Angel_Above
Nobody



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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Entersandman]
#9067065 - 10/12/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I, like many of the posters here, agree that psychedelics won't help your depression for it comes down to what you're willing to do about it. I'm a tripper, I thought the same things you did. I still find myself depressed and you must realize that you have to put in all the hard work necessary to better yourself. I wish I followed my own advice but it's harder than you think to just up and change something about yourself. Best of luck man
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implee
Cyber Hippie


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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9067092 - 10/12/08 03:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I stopped dosing mushrooms for now until my life is better... They made me depressed even as low as 1 gram.
I would NOT take mushrooms if you are depressed, especially if you have an easy way of killing yourself in the house. When you dose while you have depression you get WAY depressed during the trip, once you come out of that you feel soooo refreshed that you arent depressed any more... Its kind of like hitting the bottom before you see the light or some shit...
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Hiei
8======><=====8



Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 2,648
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Angel_Above]
#9067103 - 10/12/08 03:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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it stands for "for the win", meaning "it's the best" kinda!
-------------------- â—„â–ºÛžâ—„â–º
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botha



Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 461
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Hiei]
#9067286 - 10/12/08 04:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey! I didnt take time to read all these advices, but I didnt see the SEX word anywhere. Good sex can heal all kinds of problems, and lack of good sex causes such a shitty feeling, that nothing can cure.
oh and before having sex :
7-9 hours of sleep every day 3-4 eating times per day (breakfast, lunch etc) (milk/bread/vegetables/fish n so on.. ) 3-5 times of exercise per week. 30-45 mins of jogging, or anything that will make you sweat is great and will produce some nutrients that will make you feel like after dosing a litta bit of opiates  quit smoking drink less alcohol or none at all read a book  watch good movie
Your body wants to play music, its a huge loudspeaker. Heart is bumping and your voice adds the lyrics. Everything you do dayly must happen at the same time. all kinds of routines will make you feel so good and powerful, wake up every day at the same time for example. trust me, it works. you can still be bepressed maybe, but at least you have the soil to grow happiness plant in your sunny-body temple, if its being kept clean
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Salviasca
Soundwaver


Registered: 10/11/08
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Entersandman]
#9067335 - 10/12/08 04:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi
I would suggest to stop with Mushrooms for a while Shrooms can have the Effect that it makes you feel that the normal world is so stupid, so plane, that can make you even more depressed.
I read many reports about people taking for instance a small dose of the Vine every day and the motherly healing Effet of the Aya helped thes Persons.
Also i would suggest to go to a Shaman or Healer, that doesnt only see the Symptoms but looks in to your Heart and can see what could be th right ting for you. I have also read Reports of people getting healed from Depressions through Shamans and Shamanic Journeys.
Much Strenght and Light
Salviasca
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Hiei]
#9067572 - 10/12/08 06:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok..thanks. I've also seen "fuck the world" as an acronym for FTW, and was wondering.
FWIW, Buddhism is the first philososopy (I'm reluctant to call it a religion) that has made good sense to me. Really changed my life for the better, in VERY significant, real terms. Never thought I'd say that.
I am very reluctant to be an "missionary man" or espouse any philosophy, but in the case of the OP, I feel that a change in perspective, the kind offered by Buddhist principles, has the potential to be a really healing attitude. I'm as surprised as the next guy...and my underlying reason for exploring this attitude change was cancer, not depression! Shit, I'd take depresion over the big "C" any day.
Luckily, I appear to be fine (one year out and counting) and believe it or not, I'm happier than I've ever been. Buddhism, meditation, and psychedelics. Pretty good combo!
Be well, all. 
N.B.
Edit: Spelling errors.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
Edited by Nature Boy (10/12/08 06:06 PM)
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


Registered: 10/05/08
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Nature Boy]
#9067653 - 10/12/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im with Mark_W on this one - depression is mostly a fad. Being depressed is a normal human emotion. But we live in an abnormal human world that has advanced far past our species itself, which is still designed to live a village life full of personal goals and group convictions, where each person finds a place and maintains their self-esteem daily.
It is the world we live in, the weird expectations of our parents, the number of superficial comparisons made amongst us for pride or power. the lack of time each person receives from one and another. (due to the number of people in our lives) The number of categories that exist and the number of ways things can fit into them all (us included)
This leads to depression
but depressed people can be so up themselves with their 'disorder'. Maybe it is the parents who manually 'disorder' their children but in general, the people I know who are depressed are really normal - they just have whacked up ways of percieving and valuing themselves.
These are the things we can rethink best while on psychedelics because these drugs de-gown us of our ego and allow us to revalue ourselves from the inside out.
but you cant just take the drug and get cured.
anti-depressants can work - they can stop a person thinking in negative thought patterns by simply buffering all of their thoughts.
But thats just covering up the real issues, which are those values that depressed people develop. Whether they develop them in childhood as a means to know their value to their parents, or if they develop them in adolescence in their struggle to find a place and be confident in their belief about themself.
Sometimes we can be more confident in our beliefs of ourselves if they are depressing beliefs because by doing nothing, we are basically able to confirm any depressed belief we have of ourselves.. whereas developing positive belief in ourselves requires a lot of effort - a lot more effort for people who have deeply ingrained depressive beliefs
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youbreakyoubuy
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Noteworthy]
#9068043 - 10/12/08 07:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do something out of character.
And keep on truckin'.
Depression sucks. My general psychology text called it the 'common cold' of mental illnesses. I went through a very rough period for a while. Life seemed so very, very hard. I agree that exercise DOES help. Whenever you find something that you enjoy try to latch on to what makes it great and try to follow up on it. Good luck
-------------------- Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.
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Nature Boy
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Noteworthy]
#9068228 - 10/12/08 08:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok...so lets say that all you say is true. Where is the path out for a depressed person? Whether behavioral or organic, what do you see as the route for a depressed person that would reliably leads to a realm that they would feel is on par with everyone else's level of contentment?
Tough question, I know...but is there a way to "bootstrap" your way out of a bona fide depression? I suspect what may be called for here is a professional who is nearer at hand than we are.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Nature Boy]
#9068259 - 10/12/08 08:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Heres one of the faulty assumptions that depressed people make - that they are different, or not normal, for having these thoughts.
Everyone gets depressed, but some people only get depressed a few times a year, others every few weeks, others every day, others multiple times a day, others might be depressed during a specific part of their life,others might be the same but this specific part of their life is more integral or longlasting. etc.
There is no easy fix for depression. If there was, it would be like saying that depressed people arent PEOPLE. you cant just change a person unless you manipulate them and reduce their personhood
Anti-depressants flatten people out and make them less involved with the world, less personlike.
One of the biggest causes of depression, I believe, is when people feel guilty for what they want in life or in themselves. As if, to want the things that they want is lowly in itself, and thus a person feels depressed to not have a life that they want, and simultaneously depressed that they want those things in the first place. So they end up living as if they dont want anything, and thus cannot find value or meaning in life, and thus cannot find value or meaning in themselves
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Noteworthy]
#9068271 - 10/12/08 08:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said: ....But we live in an abnormal human world that has advanced far past our species itself, which is still designed to live a village life full of personal goals and group convictions, where each person finds a place and maintains their self-esteem daily. ....
that atavistic utopia would have been hell for me. i would never have fit in and am much happier out of that stifling community design.
I would not blame society, or others or parents. food maybe, to a small degree.
many people did not fit in during prehistoric times, they would die in the hunt or in the field or in childbirth or in an allergy reaction. the old ways were not better.
depression, ocd etc. are natural results of mentation. the same mentation that revealed the four noble truths.
i do find that vipassana helps me get out of loops
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: redgreenvines]
#9068312 - 10/12/08 09:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Prehistoric? I do not mean primitive humans. I mean the species we are now. We have existed this way for tens of thousands of years, and only in the last three thousand or so have things really picked up. We exist in a world of technology, of global governments and of massive cities. Of communities that have no identity, and identities that are seperate from the people themselves. This has only become possible across the last few hundreds of years.
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arpnuke
Always changing



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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Noteworthy]
#9068790 - 10/12/08 11:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Change is needed as things have been staying the same when nothing changes in my life. I need to get back into exercise. In the past that has helped me have some energy to do stuff besides sleep or listen to music during my free time. My last few trips have gotten me to see the effort required to get where I want to go and it isn't easy. It's simple enough to work an easy, shitty job for shitty pay for moments of intoxication with opiates/opiods. After my last trip I don't even like slacking with video games/tv or what not. It's just something to pass the time until I can sleep. I have to mention that since my mescaline trip dreams have been MUCH better. I remember them consistently, they have complex plots and fun stuff going on, and are not "messed up."
The path to my life goals that psychedelics revealed recently had bummed me out a bit because it is a LONG WAY! On the last trip while we were analyzing an infomercial, my friend said, "Our species is lazy as shit. We'll go the easiest path always. It's like it's part of our nature." That seems very true and I feel like a wimp for considering leaving this world because stuff would be too hard. Life in our society is emotionally/spiritually difficult and getting to where I'd like to be is difficult. I guess it's either try or leave rather than dick around and hope things will happen for me.
I have a question about meditation. During my last trip I went to larry carlson's medjitate site: http://www.larrycarlson.com/medijate/index.htm It had some great stuff, but one particular thing I pulled from the text shape was that his site, medijtate -- me du ate -- me do it -- larry carlson meditate's for you. When I wanted to get into meditation in the past I'd turn off the lights and find a comfortable spot to sit and clear my mind or not. After a while silencing thoughts became boring despite having its uses. Is meditation a time to dream or imagine once societal, "Have I payed the rent" "I can't believe I said that" etc are under control? How do you guys meditate and what keeps you doing it for years? It seems great, but I usually stop after a month of daily meditation.
I'd been putting off reading The Noble Eightfold Path The Way to the End of Suffering by Bhikkhu Bodhi (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/waytoend.html). Looks good and I could use good advice and doing less thinking for a bit. What do you Buddhists think about the text?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9069766 - 10/13/08 05:32 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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noteworthy: most villages were prehistoric as little as 50 years ago. i.e. facts were obscured by alpha male oppression
arnpuke; i am a systems kind of guy professionally I do computer systems artistically I paint and draw, and each piece is like a system I have been interested in the mind since I was a kid: "when different kids see a red ball is it really the same color to each of them?"
initially I reviewed hypnosis and "ugghhh - self hypnosis" (age 11 - library books) then I got into eastern things, and finally was enchanted with the systems approach that Buddhism has. (and the mandalas and thankhas)
I don't know the book you mentioned. can't recommend any specifically for your temperament. I just like the systems approach to mind and life in general that emerges in basic Buddhism.
I like the simplest and most basic meditation in which no visualization or imagination is exercised, mere following the breath is best IMO.
however my earliest experiences with meditation were very complex yogic excursions.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


Registered: 10/05/08
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: redgreenvines]
#9069823 - 10/13/08 06:15 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would say that you enjoy those things because you were brought up with them and for whatever reasons you identified to them. But had you grown up in a village.. you probably would have found your own things to do
I dont want to go back to the old times myself, my identity is definately built on many things that are modern.
But I still believe that the old way was healthier on the mind and soul.
ps. what is this male fact oppression business?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Noteworthy]
#9069900 - 10/13/08 07:14 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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my distate for domination and the protection rackets: to pursue one's interests, one needs to find zones that are not oppressed by viking troglodytes and such. unless one wants to built up their own troglodytic skills and compete amidst the primitive crowds. the simple reality of it is nearly mathematical. anyway, such escape was harder in the old days I think.
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: redgreenvines]
#9069978 - 10/13/08 08:00 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
I like the simplest and most basic meditation in which no visualization or imagination is exercised, mere following the breath is best IMO.
I agree. Here is a pretty good animation and example of that meditation technique.
Hope this proves productive for you, OP. 
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Nature Boy]
#9070131 - 10/13/08 09:03 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nature Boy said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
I like the simplest and most basic meditation in which no visualization or imagination is exercised, mere following the breath is best IMO.
I agree. Here is a pretty good animation and example of that meditation technique. {flash video here}
Hope this proves productive for you, OP. 
N.B.
well, I don't exactly go for that sort of approach, which I think is full of contradictions(1) and aspirations(2) that are not required(3), and can interfere with meditation where those ideas are not accessible.
(1) the narrator elucidates a practice that stops thoughts, but actually following the breath is thought, it is no different in composition than other thought except for being very simple, engaging localized sensation and gentle open attitude. I do not reccommend making any special effort to stop thoughts, just to begin this practice and sustain it. Everything that follows takes care of itself. In summary there is no separating thinking from meditating, there is only the subtle and continuous effort to focus it onto the object of interest:
i.e. the beginning middle and end of the in breath and the out breath, and it is very useful to keep sensitive to the tip of the nose through out this.
(2) the narrator suggests etheric and cosmic energy arriving after energy gathers at the "third eye position" while achieving the no-thought state - as if this were the reward of meditation. the phenomena that are sensed at the 3rd eye position are also thought, composed of the same energy as thought and not different or better than thought.
(3) I say not required, but it is smug of me. many people do need a story or some authorized dream to follow - clear understanding is not that important; but relief and acceptance by others is very important.
also not required for meditation is the precise physical positionment of the body. any position will do, and any body will do, one need not be a physical duplicate of a buddha to see all there is.
maybe what is useful is to widen the understanding of what thought is, and to clarify what mental states are.
thought is mental content of all kinds. sensation is a special kind of thought that connects to the happenning world of which we are part. memory is the thought objects that resonate out of mind that relate in some way to the sensation and other thought objects that have surfaced. meditation is directed thought which is sustained.
states of mind range from slightly resonant to intensely resonant and are characterized by how long thought objects resonate in mind.
the more resonant states of mind allow for more vibrational interference between thought objects which gives rise to secondary "realities" such as the 3rd eye sensations, and being "infused with light"- from sustained meditation upon something: this is where dreams, meditation, emotion, and psychedelics cross over.
what challenges people in the mental health arena is ballancing the change of mental states, and the mental content that resonates in the space provided by those changing mental states.
all I can do is encourage people to do things that are healthful so that when momentum is gathered and the train seems to run away by itself, it is easier to get back on track.
it does not really matter what you do for meditation, all techniques eventually converge. (i apologize for my rant if it offended any)
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: redgreenvines]
#9070485 - 10/13/08 10:44 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: it does not really matter what you do for meditation, all techniques eventually converge. (i apologize for my rant if it offended any)
I agree with most everything that you said. I offered the youtube animation to the OP because it was illustrative of the follow-the-breath meditation technique.
I for one, kneel on a meditation bench (I'm 50+ and cross-legged is tough on my hips and groin), and will often meditate laying down prior to going to sleep or upon waking. In our gampa, almost everyone sits upright in chairs, with a few members sitting cross-legged on the floor (all women).
Despite the shortcomings, the vid suffices to get a person started. And, yeah, I forgot about the cosmic energy part. I have't watched it full-through in a long time. I had it bookmarked for a year or more. The ones I wanted to post had been removed from youtube over some "violation of use" issue - probably a copyright infringement thing.
Just for the record, I'm not offended! 
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Zinglons Acolyte
Wizard Ninja



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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: ReefaCheefa]
#9071709 - 10/13/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ReefaCheefa said:
Quote:
Mark_W said: ok, you can call me naive, dumb, or whatever...but what the hell is depression? I mean this in a philosophical way, not in a Western medicine clinical "science" way.
It seems to me that depression would be a healthy response to the conditions we in the West are raised in...to an extent. Being pushed into a rat race, and dealing with the injustices of consumer capitalism and all of that...if someone dealt with that stuff happily, that's what I would call a disorder.
Basically, I'd say some Mdma can help the most for realizing what we as individuals and as a society can be...but we are so far gone from that ideal that I totally understand how people can get depressed, perhaps I am myself to a fair extent.
Anyways, good luck. Some of the greatest minds this world has ever known ever gone through periods of depression verging on suicide, many have found their God and been inspired to tell their story.
I don't want to downplay the seriousness of the matter, but I also don't want to feed into the western clinical model of "depressed" vs. "normal". I think all that is an oversimplification.
Don't listen to doctors. Think deeply about what sort of a of system they've been sent through, and that should cure you of any blind faith you may have in our medical system. There's more hope in that statement than I'm probably conveying. Trust yourself, your intuition, your inner-voice, your conscience, or whatever, over all else.
I can't point out how wrong you actually are. Do you realize its a disease of the mind? You cannot control any aspect of it, and many of us are left with very little energy and motivation to do the things we need to do to change our lifestyle.
Depression is definitely a serious matter, and I do believe that psychs can help depression, because I have experienced it first hand. It hasn't "cured" me, but so far I have regained normal sleeping habits and lots of lost energy.
Aside from that, just changing your surroundings, friends, and habits can also break you from depression. I am definitely going to start exercising after reading through this thread though. It has given me a lot of insight.
i must agree with this, many of the posters here dont even know what true depression is true depression is fucking opressive and debilitating. it crushes your spirit and makes you believe that there is no hope, past present or future, even though you know that hope exists it becomes impossible to experience it
i agree as well with the statement that antidepressants flatten people out, they are not the answer
i have bipolar disorde and to treat depression the best thing i can advocate is meditation, lately however i personally have not been able to meditate, and i have had lets see, 3 or 4 hypomanic episodes (4 or 5 days each) and at least 2 major depressive episodes (2 or 3 weeks usually) including about 2 weeks where i was afraid to go to sleep because i only had nightmares, im coming off a mild depressive episode now
-------------------- And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast. ----- "And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" "If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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Mark_W
Stranger
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
#9072339 - 10/13/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zinglons Acolyte said: i must agree with this, many of the posters here dont even know what true depression is true depression is fucking opressive and debilitating. it crushes your spirit and makes you believe that there is no hope, past present or future, even though you know that hope exists it becomes impossible to experience it
If you know that hope exists, then is that not a hopeful experience/thought? We can look at that in a glass-half-full way, right? I know that depression is oppressive and debilitating, but I'm more concerned with what I see as the cultural causes of depression.
Bringing the word "true" into the mix doesn't clear things up much. I tend to think its all on a continuum. How do you know that your definition of a mild or severe depressive episode isn't what I'm talking about? I mentioned people who were so depressed they were on the verge of suicide, is that not true depression?
-------------------- Let the State Disintegrate -Leary
Edited by Mark_W (10/13/08 06:22 PM)
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Zinglons Acolyte
Wizard Ninja



Registered: 12/03/07
Posts: 2,877
Loc: Andromeda Galaxy
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Mark_W]
#9072387 - 10/13/08 06:22 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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hope becomes irrelevent, because everything is hopeless, even though my mind remembers hope, it no longer exists, and never did, even though it did exist its a logic loop i know, and very illogical, but my mind gets trapped in it, and there is nothing to do but wait it out or medicate, cannabis usually helps when i have it
true depression isnt cause by a specific stimulus, it just is, what you were talking about is what i would consider just being at a low point mine comes and goes in cycles, it isnt caused by stimuli, but stimuli often exasperate it, especially when people try to help
-------------------- And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast. ----- "And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" "If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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nonwo
truth seeker



Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1,431
Loc: southern usa
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Entersandman]
#9072414 - 10/13/08 06:29 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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go into the woods keep going further and further from the city live there make friends with the ants they will show u that life is beuty and so is pain pain gives life gives food shows us we are alive when u are happy return from the woods but u will want to stay
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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Mark_W
Stranger
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
#9072501 - 10/13/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, this is a complex issue. I don't believe that anything is either one or the other exclusively. You say that your depression isn't caused by stimuli, but I would imagine that you could fall in love and this would have a powerful impact, perhaps it would flip the switch to mania temporarily, I don't know. I just don't see how mood couldn't be affected, or triggered (positively as well as negatively) by stimuli and in ways that are often times too complex to even understand. I think everyone goes through periods of happiness and depression, some more extreme than others, but the fluctuation is always there and things are on a sort of continuum. And stimulus is one of the factors involved. Whatever causes the happiness or the depression we can guess at, but as we are comprised of spirit and matter we can never say absolutely "It was this" or "It was that" and its sort of like the whole set/setting/dosage relationship to psychedelics that sometimes synergizes into a beautiful experience and other times doesn't.
But, for the purposes of empowering ourselves and feeling like we have control over stuff, it makes sense to place spirit over matter and not get reductionist about how everything is mere brain chemistry and we have no control. We do have control over our thoughts to an extent and our thoughts influence our happiness, and the more faith we have in this process it stands to reason that we'll be more successful in becoming more in control of our moods than we had previously thought.
BTW, I don't do this, I don't have lots of faith in this idea. I'm primarily a "matter over spirit" person, but I think I should change my head in this regard.
-------------------- Let the State Disintegrate -Leary
Edited by Mark_W (10/13/08 06:59 PM)
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Locus




Registered: 03/11/04
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: arpnuke]
#9072529 - 10/13/08 06:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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i think you should talk to a therapist and get on some antidepressants man. if psychedelics havent helped in the past theyre not likely to now like others have said.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein "Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe ~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~ *Check my profile to listen to my music*
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alkylbenzene23
Indeed



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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Psynsns]
#9072795 - 10/13/08 07:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psynsns said: Pray. Get in touch with the power greater than yourself and watch what happens. This does not have to be couched in organized religion, but just a humble supplication to God to direct your life. Amazing changes should ensue if you follow the advice of your new friend.
I'm sorry, but God doesn't magically make everything better for you. This world is broken, Period.
As for advice to the OP, GET A Psychologist!!!, a Good one at that too many of the ones out there are crappy, and FFS don't LIE to them how the fuck can they help if you just feed them BS all the time. They are bound to major privacy laws, they can't say shit unless your like "I'm planning on killing _NAME_" in which case they'd probably just throw you in the psyc ward rather than tell the cops.
-------------------- If you try to lick your cat while tripping, and they bite you, are you even?
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retrospect
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: alkylbenzene23]
#9072894 - 10/13/08 08:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah i have to agree alot of people dont understand clinical depression and think curing it is as simple as thinking positively. when you are depressed you don't enjoy anything at all in life because you dont have the chemicals in your brain that create enjoyment. its not as simple as changing your thought processes to positive ones. when you cant enjoy anything at all it doesnt matter whether you think positive or negative. normally there is a cause for the lack of brain chemicals, in my experience it was all this stress going on in my life which i refused to deal with.
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chris92346
Stranger

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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: botha]
#9084446 - 10/15/08 11:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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botha said: Hey! I didnt take time to read all these advices, but I didnt see the SEX word anywhere. Good sex can heal all kinds of problems, and lack of good sex causes such a shitty feeling, that nothing can cure.
oh and before having sex :
7-9 hours of sleep every day 3-4 eating times per day (breakfast, lunch etc) (milk/bread/vegetables/fish n so on.. ) 3-5 times of exercise per week. 30-45 mins of jogging, or anything that will make you sweat is great and will produce some nutrients that will make you feel like after dosing a litta bit of opiates  quit smoking drink less alcohol or none at all read a book  watch good movie
Your body wants to play music, its a huge loudspeaker. Heart is bumping and your voice adds the lyrics. Everything you do dayly must happen at the same time. all kinds of routines will make you feel so good and powerful, wake up every day at the same time for example. trust me, it works. you can still be bepressed maybe, but at least you have the soil to grow happiness plant in your sunny-body temple, if its being kept clean
What a great post! true words to live by. Truly a great guide for living a content life.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: nonwo]
#9084854 - 10/16/08 12:57 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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nonwo said: go into the woods keep going further and further from the city live there make friends with the ants they will show u that life is beuty and so is pain pain gives life gives food shows us we are alive when u are happy return from the woods but u will want to stay
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AgingHippy
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Entersandman]
#9102429 - 10/19/08 11:35 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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im sure it's been mentioned, but when you say mushrooms make you ask "why?", maybe its because you didnt trip hard enough?
I always find that there is a why part, which eventually (normally close to the comedown) turns into realistic acceptance that the world is the way it is, and a clearer idea of what really matters in life.
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DreamSignals
Morphogenetic Truth


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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: AgingHippy]
#9102858 - 10/20/08 03:47 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was going to say sex, but already did. Sex.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. (93) Love is the law, love under will. (93 93/93)
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jvm
I knew the pieces fit!



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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: Entersandman]
#9102951 - 10/20/08 05:19 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Follow the system you're in now or move to where you are connected into that system of culture. If you want to do something that is illegal here then move to where it's accepted.
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Zinglons Acolyte
Wizard Ninja



Registered: 12/03/07
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Re: This depression is going to kill me if psychedelics/therapy can't end it [Re: DreamSignals]
#9105831 - 10/20/08 07:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DreamSignals said: I was going to say sex, but already did. Sex.
a nice idea in theory, but libido is the first thing to go when i enter into a depressive episode, sex seems way too much effort, and still doesnt help
-------------------- And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast. ----- "And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" "If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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