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Stranger Registered: 10/07/08 Posts: 36 Last seen: 13 years, 3 months |
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Have you ever had a feeling that history is repeating itself? Do you think that much of what is happening in our world today has happened before? And if you think it has, do you think it will happen again in the future?
These are deep questions and I intend to address them to the best of my ability in this thread. Also, I will present a possible alternate history of humankind that isn't normally taught in our textbooks. Firstly, it is my eternally unshakeable conviction that the illusion known as Time (and history, particularly human history, in this context) recurs in cycles. There are cycles of Time which spin around and around like a wheel and the 'spokes' of this proverbial wheel are the different divisions of Time that rotate perpetually. Basically, I embrace a cyclical conception of Time. However, if you think that Time flows in a linear fashion, that's fine too. Nevertheless, the information in this thread will largely reflect my cyclical and non-linear conception of Time. The bulk of this thread is about humans and their civilisations as well as how far they actually extend in antiquity. It is commonly believed among the mainstream scientific community that humans have their origins on Earth approximately 200,000 years ago. However, over the last few centuries, literally THOUSANDS of archaeological discoveries have been made which severely challenges this belief. Here are merely SOME of the archaeological discoveries which CLEARLY indicate that Homo sapiens sapiens (that's us) have existed on this planet for FAR longer than what is usually taught in our textbooks: * A human skull fragment from Hungary dated between 250,000 and 450,000 BC * A human footprint with accompanying paleoliths (stones deliberately chipped into a recognisable tool type), bone tools, hearths and shelters, discovered in France and dated 300,000 to 400,000 years BC * Paleoliths in Spain, a partial human skeleton and paleoliths in France; two English skeletons, one with associated paleoliths, ALL at least 300,000 years old * Skull fragments and paleoliths in Kenya and advanced paleoliths, of modern human manufacture, in the Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania, dated between 400,000 and 700,000 BC * Neoliths (the most advanced stone tools and utensils) in China of a type that indicate full human capacity, dated to 600,000 BC * Hearths, charcoal, human femurs and broken animal bones, all denoting modern humanity, in Java, dated to 830,000 BC * An anatomically modern human skull discovered in Argentina and dated between 1 million and 1.5 million years BC (eoliths -chipped pebbles, thought to be the earliest known tools- at Monte Hermoso, also in Argentina, are believed to be between 1 and 2.5 million years old). * A human tooth from Java yielding a date between 1 and 1.9 million years BC * Incised bones, dated between 1.2 and 2.5 million BC, have been found in Italy * Discoveries of paleoliths, cut and charred bones at Xihoudu in China and eoliths from Diring Yurlakh in Siberia dated to 1.8 million BC * Eoliths in India, paleoliths in England, Belgium, Italy and Argentina, flint blades in Italy, hearths in Argentina, a carved shell, pierced teeth and even two human jaws all bearing a minimum date of 2 million years BC Curiously enough, several of the very earliest artifact discoveries display a truly extraordinary level of sophistication. In Idaho, for example, a 2-million-year-old clay figurine was unearthed in 1912. But even this discovery does not mark an outer limit. Bones, vertebrae and even complete skeletons have been found in Italy, Argentina and Kenya. Their minimum datings range from 3 million to 4 million BC. A human skull, a partial human skeleton and a collection of neoliths discovered in California have been dated in excess of 5 million years. A human skeleton discovered at Midi in France, paleoliths found in Portugal, Burma and Argentina, a carved bone and flint flakes from Turkey all have a minimum age of 5 million years. How far back can human history be pushed with discoveries like these? The answer seems to be a great deal further than orthodox science currently allows. As if the foregoing discoveries were not enough, we need to take account of: * Paleoliths from France dated between 7 and 9 million BC * An eolith from India with a minimum dating of 9 million BC * Incised bones from France, Argentina and Kenya no less than 12 million years old * More paleolith discoveries from France, dated at least 20 million years ago * Neoliths from California in excess of 23 million years * Three different kinds of paleoliths from Belgium with a minimum dating of 26 million BC * An anatomically modern human skeleton, neoliths and carved stones found at the Table Mountain, California and dated at least 33 million years ago But even 33 million years is not the upper limit. A human skeleton found in Switzerland is estimated to be between 38 and 45 million years old. France has yielded up eoliths, paleoliths, cut wood and a chalk ball, the minimum ages of which range from 45 to 50 million years. There's still more. In 1960, H. L. Armstrong announced in Nature magazine the discovery of fossil human footprints near the Paluxy River, in Texas. Dinosaur footprints were found in the same strata. In 1983, the Moscow News reported the discovery of a fossilised human footprint next to the fossil footprint of a three-toed dinosaur in the Turkamen Republic. Dinosaurs have been extinct for approximately 65 million years. In 1983, Professor W. G. Burroughs of Kentucky reported the discovery of three pairs of fossil tracks dated to 300 million years ago. They showed left and right footprints. Each print had five toes and a distinct arch. The toes were spread apart like those of a human used to walking barefoot. The foot curved back like a human foot to what appeared to be a human heel. There was a pair of prints in the series that showed a left and right foot. The distance between them is just what you'd expect in modern human footprints. In December 1862, The Geologist carried news of a human skeleton found 27.5 m (90 ft) below the surface in a coal seam in Illinois. The seam was dated between 286 and 320 million years BC. It's true that a few eoliths, skull fragments and fossil footprints, however old, provide no real backing for the idea of advanced prehistoric human civilisations. But some other discoveries do. In 1968, an American fossil collector named William J. Meister found a fossilised human shoe print near Antelope Spring, Utah. There were trilobite fossils in the same stone, which means it was at least 245 million years old. Close examination showed that the sole of this shoe differed little, if at all, from those of shoes manufactured today. In 1897, a carved stone showing multiple faces of an old man was found at a depth of 40 m (130 ft) in a coal mine in Iowa. The coal there was of similar age. A piece of coal yielded up an encased iron cup in 1912. Frank J. Kenwood, who made the discovery, was so intrigued he traced the origin of the coal and discovered it came from the Wilburton Mine in Oklahoma. The coal there is about 312 million years old. In 1844, Scottish physicist Sir David Brewster reported the discovery of a metal nail embedded in a sandstone block from a quarry in the north of England. The head was completely encased, ruling out the possibility that it had been driven in at some recent date. The block from which it came is approximately 360 million years old. On 22 June 1844, The Times reported that a length of gold thread had been found by workmen embedded in stone close to the River Tweed. This stone too was around 360 million years old. Astonishing though these dates may appear to anyone familiar with the orthodox theory of human origins, they pale in comparison with the dates of two further discoveries. According to Scientific American, dated 5 June 1852, blasting activities at Meeting House Hill, in Dorchester, Massachusetts, unearthed a metallic, bell-shaped vessel extensively decorated with silver inlays of flowers and vines. The workmanship was described as 'exquisite'. The vessel was blown out of a bed of Roxbury conglomerate dated somewhat earlier than 600 million years BC. In 1993, Michael A. Cremo and Richard L. Thompson reported the discovery 'over the past several decades' of hundreds of metallic spheres in a pyrophyllite mine in South Africa. The spheres are grooved and give the appearance of having been manufactured. If so, the strata in which they were found suggest they were manufactured 2.8 billion years ago. What are we to make of these perplexing discoveries? They cannot be simply brushed off. Great ancient monuments such as the pyramids of Egypt, Stonehenge and the giant stone balls of Costa Rica all indicate a level of intelligence not typically granted in modern scientific views of so-called 'primitive' humans. I have long believed that in some distant past not recognised by modern science, humankind was far more advanced than we generally suppose. I believe that following such times, humankind entered a 'dark age'...the age that many of us recognise and typically ascribe to ancient humankind. The cause of such dark ages and the total lapse of advanced civilisation, I do not know. And whether the advancement, or even origins of that civilisation, came by way of extraterrestrial intervention, spiritual means or simple human ingenuity, I also do not know. Astrobiologists now suspect that life began on Earth shortly after its formation...indicating that life evolves rather quickly and if such holds true, it's quite possible that life could have evolved to advanced levels of civilisation prior to the first anatomically modern human ever chipping a flint stone. On top of this, the legendary Greek philosopher Aristotle stated numerous times in his works that the arts and sciences had been discovered (rediscovered?) many times in the past. The ancient Greeks believed in a cyclical conception of Time consisting of four ages that continually rotate in this order: Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Iron Age The ancient Indians also believed in a cyclical conception of Time consisting of four continually rotating ages that move in this order: Satya Yuga, Treta Yuga, Dwapar Yuga and Kali Yuga A Golden Age corresponds to a Satya Yuga, a Silver Age corresponds to a Treta Yuga, a Bronze Age corresponds to a Dwapar Yuga and an Iron Age corresponds to a Kali Yuga. It is interesting to note that in both the ancient Greek and the ancient Indian cyclical conception of Time, human civilisations first rise at the commencement of the Golden Age/Satya Yuga, they endure throughout the Treta and Dwapar Yugas and then finally dissipate towards the end of the Kali Yuga, with the exception of perhaps only several human survivors. And then these survivors repopulate Earth and pick up from where they left off. Thus, a new civilisation is born and the cycle continues. There are ancient Sanskrit writings that describe Satya Yuga as an age when humans lived in complete harmony with nature. The weather is always very mild, almost perpetually spring-like, and there are no cities. The distinction between men and gods (devas) is virtually non-existent. There is no need for technological devices of any sort, because whatever end today's technology serves could be achieved back then through their own innate abilities which were fully manifested at birth. People had a child-like innocence which they maintained throughout their incredibly lengthy lives. They were also very spiritual and had no desire to control or manipulate matter in any way. Then comes Treta Yuga, which is when people start to build houses and cities to live in as a result of somewhat more unpredictable weather, political systems come into being and competition and conflicts between people start to arise. The ancient Sanskrit/Vedic writings figuratively state that in Treta Yuga, spirituality (dharma) among humankind decreases by about 25%. Then we move onto Dwapar Yuga, the age when doubt rears its ugly head. Wars become more common in this age. People become more and more obsessed with controlling things (ie. matter), the 'controlling' mentality becomes very powerful in this age. Nonetheless, the majority of people in the world still live their lives abiding by certain codes of ethics and never break these codes under any circumstances. The moral climate or overall level of spirituality (dharma) among humankind during this age decreases by about another 25%. And then we finally come to Kali Yuga, which is supposedly the current age that our modern human civilisation is in. It is commonly known as 'the age of quarrel and hypocrisy' and is a very intense age. The level of spirituality (dharma) among humankind during this age decreases by yet another 25%. The 'controlling' mentality reaches its peak and we develop technological contraptions such as planes, TVs, computers, cars, nuclear missiles etc. The irony of this age is that it seems as though we're making progress, yet our most undesirable and destructive traits receive full expression in this age and run alongside our so-called 'progress', thus pulling our so-called 'progress' down. It seems as though the less of a desire one has to control, the more control one will actually have. This is the paradox underlying each of the yugas. There are many interesting predictions described in the ancient Sanskrit writings about common occurrences in the Kali Yuga, here are only some of these: humans shall be murdered whilst still in their mother's wombs, wars shall eventuate under the pretense of God and dogmatic religious beliefs, starvation will become common, so-called 'justice' would only be delivered to those who have the most money, Earth will become progressively hotter (global warming?), sex will become the predominant motive (and often the only motive) for starting a conjugal relationship and women will outnumber men As you might have noticed, all of these prophesised occurrences are being fulfilled even as I type this message. If you read some of the ancient Vedic texts, you will find that they describe an almost forgotten time of the past where they had skyscrapers, flying machines, screens with moving pictures on them (this sounds suspiciously like a TV to me), all the modern marvels, but something cataclysmic happened and that civilisation was tragically lost. There is a larger cycle of time known in Sanskrit as a manvantar. There are 14 manvantars in a single kalpa (a kalpa is a day in the life of Brahma/the universe). One manvantar has a duration of 308.57142 million years (and yes, that is indeed the number which is used..... check it out through this URL: http://encyclopediaofauthentichi Each manvantar is ruled by a Manu. 'Manu' is a title accorded to the progenitor of humankind, the first king to rule this Earth. Manu is the original or primal man and his wife is the original or primal woman and it is their duty to initiate the population of Earth with human beings and establish an 'overall' human civilisation during the manvantar they rule under. It is also Manu's duty to establish basic laws among human civilisation. These laws can be found in an ancient Sanskrit book known as Manusmriti. The ancient Vedic writings tell us that we currently live in the 7th manvantar which is ruled by Vaivasvat Manu. I think it is fascinating that modern paleontology tells us that there have been 6 major extinction events since the beginning of life on Earth approximately 2 billion years ago. The Vedic texts also state that life began on Earth approximately 2 billion years ago as well (during this particular cycle). And since we are supposedly in the 7th manvantar, this means that 6 manvantars have already elapsed. It is said that a global cataclysm wipes out much of the life on Earth at the end of each manvantar. Then at the start of the next manvantar, Earth becomes repopulated with life again from the organisms that remain. So I think that's an incredible 'coincidence' between what modern paleontology tells us and what the ancient Vedic texts are saying. The major difference between what modern paleontology is saying and what the ancient Vedic texts are telling us is that in the ancient Vedic texts, humans (and, by extension, human civilisations) have existed in each of the 6 previous manvantars before the 6 major extinction events occurred. In each manvantar, there is one overall human civilisation as a whole (stemming from the early humans who are direct descendants of Manu) and countless sub-civilisations or minor civilisations spread across Earth in each manvantar (for example, one could say that some of the minor civilisations that have risen and fallen in our current manvantar are the ancient Harappan civilisation, the ancient Roman civilisation, the ancient Egyptian civilisation etc). This seems like a pretty long post already, so I'll end it here. lol In my next post, I will mention the myths of the ancient civilisations of Atlantis and Lemuria and how I consider them to be relevant to this thread. Stay tuned dudes, this thread is far from complete! ![]()
Edited by Rishi (11/24/08 08:59 AM)
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Registered: 01/11/07 Posts: 1,596 |
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I love Vedic writings. Great post
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Overshoes Registered: 05/07/08 Posts: 5,503 |
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History seems to repeat itself on a smaller scale, so I don't see any reason why this wouldn't extend to a greater length of time as well.
![]() Hell, the ancient Chinese had hand grenades and rockets.
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Registered: 02/10/08 Posts: 56,232 |
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Get back to me when you find a fossilized microwave.
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Registered: 05/19/08 Posts: 10,303 Loc: The Astral Realm |
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Very interesting post. I had had thoughts of some of these theories as well. Putting history in this perspective answers a lot of questions.
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ShroominSamurai Registered: 04/11/04 Posts: 279 Last seen: 11 years, 1 month |
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Just look up 'vimanas'
word -------------------- Jumped in a river, what did I see? Black eyed angels swimming with me Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see All my lovers were there with me All my past and all my futures We went to heaven in a little rowboat There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
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Stranger Registered: 06/05/08 Posts: 151 Last seen: 8 years, 3 months |
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So awesome post, it make's one think... Anyways I was wondering if you have any sources for the discoveries of pieces of bones and footprints.
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Elegant Universe Registered: 09/02/04 Posts: 3,310 Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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I often feel as though this paradigm is quite obvious!
I also think ti myself.. it's no coincidence that I happen to be living in THIS day and time, when shit is so whacked out... in such a way that if were not for the fact that we are living in this world, we would not even be able to imagine it... yet I don't have to imagine... it simply is, and it seems simply natural, as though I've been through this before. -------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Justadropofwater Registered: 04/27/03 Posts: 10,447 Loc: The War Machine |
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I think your probably right about us being here much longer and evolution happening faster. Your also right about people re-discovering things and things being lost along the way.
I don't think its likely that a human civilisation before us got to the point of overall technology we have now as theres nothing too suggest that - though although there may be individual great discoveries that were lost for some reason. Seems likely that this "age" will at some point collapse. Nuclear war or the collapse of this corrupt society. The evolution of the human mind. The advancement into living in space or on other planets. The presentation of ET. These are all things that I think would cause major change and end this current way of life and thinking - for a new path for humankind.
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Stranger Registered: 10/07/08 Posts: 36 Last seen: 13 years, 3 months |
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Has anyone noticed that in practically ALL supposed written accounts of Atlantis, it's NEVER described as a 'primitive' land? It seems to be universally agreed upon that Atlantis was a land of immense opulence and luxury. However, such an excessively materialistic and hedonistic lifestyle eventually led to the downfall of Atlantis. Some mythologies claim that Atlantis sunk into the ocean. However, sinking lands have long been established as geological impossibilities. Therefore, if Atlantis did indeed exist in the distant past, it is far more logical to believe that it met its demise as a result of rising water levels of the ocean that surrounded it (as opposed to Atlantis actually sinking into the ocean). The ancient Indian epic poem Ramayan as well as various other ancient Vedic writings describe a lost continent known as 'Rutas' which parallels Atlantis (and could possibly even be the same land!). Ramayan warns our current human civilisation of the dangerous consequences of debauchery and arrogance. It describes the people of Rutas as being very domineering. They were apparently a technologically advanced civilisation which possessed aircrafts known as 'Vailixi'. As their power grew in magnitude, they conquered more and more surrounding lands across the Earth. Nevertheless, they were responsible for their own destruction when they haphazardly launched a missile (possibly a nuclear one!) to defeat the Rama Empire of ancient India (a civilisation which rivalled Rutas in practically every aspect except that of morality, because the people of the Rama Empire were said to be more virtuous) whom they had sought to conquer and control. The missile was so incredibly destructive that not only did it disintegrate the Rama Empire, it also removed Rutas off the face of the Earth as well! As for Lemuria (which some people also call 'Mu', although I believe that Lemuria and Mu were separate and distinct land-masses... if they even existed, of course), it's another hypothetical lost continent. Some esoteric groups claim that the civilisation which existed in Lemuria predates even the civilisation of Atlantis. It is also sometimes said that Lemurian civilisation was extremely advanced both technologically and spiritually. This URL mentions 10 ancient advanced civilisations:
http://ufo.whipnet.org/creation/ Here is what that page says about Atlantis, Mu/Lemuria and the Rama Empire (which are the first three ancient advanced civilisations mentioned on that page): "1. ANCIENT MU OR LEMURIA ![]() According to various esoteric sources, the first civilization arose 78,000 years ago on the giant continent known as Mu or Lemuria and lasted for an astonishing 52,000 years. It is sometimes said to have been destroyed in earthquakes generated by a pole shift which occurred some 26,000 years ago, or at approximately 24,000 B.C. While Mu did not reach as high a technology, supposedly, as other later civilizations, it is, nevertheless, said to have attained some advanced technology, particularly in the building of long-lasting megalithic buildings that were able to withstand earthquakes. However, it was the science of government that is sometimes said to have been Mu's greatest achievement. Supposedly, there was one language and one government. Education was the keynote of the Empire's success, and because every citizen was versed in the laws of the universe and was given thorough training in a profession or trade, magnificent prosperity resulted. A child's education was compulsory to the age of 21 in order for him to be eligible to attend citizenship school. This training period lasted for seven years; so the earliest age at which a person could become a citizen of the empire was 28. 2. ANCIENT ATLANTIS ![]() It is said that when the continent of Mu sank, the oceans of the world lowered drastically as water rushed into the newly formed Pacific Basin. The relatively small islands which had existed in the Atlantic during the time of the Lemurian civilization were left high and dry by the receding ocean. The newly emerged land joined the Poseid Archipelago of the Atlantic Ocean to form a small continent. This continent is called Atlantis by historians today, though its real name was Poseid. Atlantis is believed to have taken technology to very advanced stages, well beyond what exists on our planet today. In the book A Dweller On Two Planets, first dictated in 1884 by Phylos the Tibetan to a young Californian named Frederick Spencer Oliver, as well as in a 1940 sequel, An Earth Dweller Returns, there is mention of such inventions and devices as air conditioners to overcome deadly and noxious vapors; airless cylinder lamps, tubes of crystal illuminated by the night side forces; electric rifles, guns employing electricity as a propulsive force (rail-guns are similar, and a very new invention); mono-rail transportation; water generators, an instrument for condensing water from the atmosphere; and the Vailix, an aerial ship governed by forces of levitation and repulsion. The sleeping clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, in a reading spoke of the use of aeroplanes and of crystals or firestones used for energy and related applications. He also speaks of the misuse of power and warnings of destruction to come. 3. RAMA EMPIRE OF INDIA ![]() Fortunately, the ancient books of India's Rama Empire have been preserved, unlike those of China, Egypt, Central America and Peru. Many of these ancient nations are now either desert wastelands, swallowed by thick jungle or literally at the bottom of some ocean. Yet India, despite devastation by wars and invasion, managed to maintain a large part of its ancient history. For a long time, Indian civilization was not believed to date from much earlier than about 500 B.C., only about 200 years prior to Alexander the Great's invasion of the subcontinent. In the past century, however, the extremely sophisticated cities of Mohenjo Daro (Mound Of The Dead) and Harappa have been discovered in the Indus Valley of modern-day Pakistan. The discoveries of these cities forced archaeologists to push the dates for the origin of Indian civilization back thousands of years. A wonder to modern-day researchers, the cities were highly developed and caused leading archaeologists to believe that they were conceived as a whole before they were built: a remarkable early example of city planning. Even more remarkable is that the plumbing-sewage system throughout the large city is superior to that found in Pakistan, India and most Asian countries today." --------------------
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HallucinogenusDi Registered: 07/12/05 Posts: 3,222 Last seen: 14 years, 2 months |
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I do find it unusual that we haven't found any fossil skyscrapers...
I see time as being non-linear as well; however I see cyclic as being linear. I am not sure past and future are as different as we perceive them to be, we have largely lost our sense of metaphor in this modern era. -------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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Stranger Registered: 10/07/08 Posts: 36 Last seen: 13 years, 3 months |
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Mango..... if you see cyclic time/history as being linear, then it's basically this linearity you're referring to happening over and over and over again.
--------------------
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HallucinogenusDi Registered: 07/12/05 Posts: 3,222 Last seen: 14 years, 2 months |
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Are you familiar with Fourier transformation?
Happening over and over and over again is just another form of linearity. I see 'time' as more erratic than that. -------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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