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Offlinesocratesmind
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How to cultivate a new species?
    #904868 - 09/24/02 04:39 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Would it be possible to make a new species of mushroom by taking some spores from 2 different strains. Putting some under a microscope to isolate one of each strain kind and let them breed. Then isolate the resulting pure culture to get a pure strain of this new species and try it out to see if its viable on any substrates?? Sorry if this is redundant but i couldnt find the forum post that talked about new strains of fungi.


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Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: socratesmind]
    #905119 - 09/24/02 05:58 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

You may if VERY VERY LUCKY end up with a new strain of cubensis (I assume this is the species you are referring to).....But I guarantee that you will not develop a new species....



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InvisibleUna
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: socratesmind]
    #905131 - 09/24/02 06:03 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

no


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: socratesmind]
    #905423 - 09/24/02 08:45 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

The definition of a species is anything that can mate and bear offspring with...
If strains are like breeds and cubes are like dogs and pans are like cats...
Then you would by definition mater spores from two different strains...
This is the 'if" however...
Just like a bulldog can mate with a shitzoo, but not with a persian kitty...


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #905425 - 09/24/02 08:46 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, so "no" unless that "if" thingie


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Offlinesocratesmind
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #905650 - 09/24/02 11:16 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yea i was talking about P. Cube family as going outside that i don't think it'd be possible??? But what would the technique go about doing would u have to isolate 2 spores or are they asexual and reproduce without another spore? Also I realize that the resulting new species must be viable and able to reproduce if its a new 'species'.


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Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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Anonymous

Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: socratesmind]
    #906125 - 09/25/02 02:20 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

P. cubensis is a species, not a family. You may breed different strains and substrains of this species, i.e Golden teacher breed with B+. Since both Strains are variants of the same species they should be able to mate to form a hybrid.

The process would be to dilute spore solution of each strain and plate them out. Isolate monokaryons, single spore germinations, from each and test the monokaryons for mating compatability. When you find Dikaryons, mated monokaryons, they will be hybrids between the two strains. Now you have to test them for fruiting, and then spore production. The resulting spores will have a mixture of both strains. These are hybrid spores.

According to TMC, the majority of these hybrids are less then vigorous compared with the parents.

Some species of mushrooms produce spores that already contain both mating types within it. They germinate as dikaryons. In order to make hybrids of these type, you must rely on mating between dikaryons,Anastamosis. You have to test for compatability between many Dikaryons of one strain, with many from another.

Anastamosis occurs between dikaryons of P. cubensis as well, but this occurence will be less frequent between dikaryons of different strains, then between Dikaryons of different substrains, within a strain. Also far less frequent, then between monokaryons of different strains of the same Species.


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Offlinesocratesmind
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: ]
    #907444 - 09/25/02 04:10 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

What power microscope would u need to see these dikaryons and monokryons to identify them?


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Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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Anonymous

Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: socratesmind]
    #910079 - 09/26/02 04:20 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Not all mushrooms form clamp connections.
P.cubensis does.
You can see clamps at 400x, but you are greatly assisted by phase contrast illumination.

You don't really need a microscope. Just a very dilute spore solution of each strain. If you plate out a very dilutespore solution containing a surfactant, like soap, you should be able to get single spore germination at several places on the plate.

The more dilute the spore solution, the easier it is to differentiate between monokaryons and dikaryons. In the abscensce of multiple substrains growing in and amongst eachother, like a multispore germination, it is easier to recognize a monokaryon from a dikaryon. the monokaryon will be slow growing and never RHIZO.
When you have to many substrains growing on a plate, even dikaryons look kind of cottony, until they are seperated from the other substrains, or enough time passes for them to out compete each other.

If you dilute enough, you can have as few as one spore germinating on a plate.
If you have access to a microscope that can get to 400x magnification, just put a drop of the shaken up spore solution in question on a slide, and count the quantity of spores per DROP, and check to see if they are clumping together. Once you have an idea of what is in the spore solution, you have a pretty good idea of what will be occuring on the plate when they germinate.

According to the literature, about 1 spore in 100 germinates!!!

Once you have monokaryons isolated, you will KNOW if they mate by the resulting mycelium emerging from the point of contact between the two monokaryons. You don't need to see that under a microscope, with P. cubensis. Just have a good understanding of what Dikaryotic mycelium looks like with the naked eye, on agar!!!


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Offlinesocratesmind
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: ]
    #910597 - 09/26/02 09:29 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Lemme guess TMC covers all these topics and stuff??? If so ima definately cop that book. Any known ppl out there to sucessfully make a hybrid in a lab situation??


--------------------
Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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Anonymous

Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: socratesmind]
    #910861 - 09/26/02 11:09 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

TMC is a great book to have!!

I have never seen any research on P. cubensis hybrids, but many of the common edible mushrooms are hybrids.


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Offlinesocratesmind
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: ]
    #911018 - 09/27/02 12:16 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Any chance that a p. cub hybrid would be unsafe to eat? Or have any other adverse reactions like a freak hybrid?


--------------------
Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: ]
    #913357 - 09/27/02 10:23 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

A cubensis hybrid would be no unsafer than any other cubensis spore-race. The spore-races are just different environmental, geological and genetic respresentations of the same mushroom - and these are not generally stable, but constantly evolving.
Teonan - your knowledge ALWAYS astounds!!


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Offlinefrancisco
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: socratesmind]
    #913421 - 09/27/02 10:46 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Stropharia is the family,Psilocybe is the genus,cubensis is the species.Species breed rather easily.Genus, less so.Within family,next to nil.If you want to buck the odds,you must germinate individual spores(monokaryons).They breed and do mushroom stuf.(sex,dikaryons.etc.)What really sucks is you can be super succesful and still get ... ah well.. nothing.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: ]
    #918625 - 09/30/02 04:21 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I swear to god, I've seen you (teonan) answer this question at least 7 or 8 times, hell I've even posted a link to your explination a couple of times. Keep it up.


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Offlinehappygrins
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Re: How to cultivate a new species? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #919009 - 09/30/02 09:47 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)


  >Just like a bulldog can mate with a shitzoo

Would they call this a: Bullshit,  then?.. 

--happygrins :grin:


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