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InvisibleBridgeburner
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every philosophical & spiritual question a person has
    #9043745 - 10/07/08 07:36 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality? and that every idea the person thinks about & seeks answers to are available only in the world view of his/her views to reality.

what i mean is, the question represents the person himself, his views and experiences in life. that there is very little that is objective when it comes to existential questions because all those questions are very personal.

am i right, or am i deluded?


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OfflineBackwardsCap
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9043869 - 10/07/08 07:59 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

are you sure you really want to ask that question? you'll just get a subjective answer.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9043870 - 10/07/08 08:00 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality? and that every idea the person thinks about & seeks answers to are available only in the world view of his/her views to reality.

what i mean is, the question represents the person himself, his views and experiences in life. that there is very little that is objective when it comes to existential questions because all those questions are very personal.

am i right, or am i deluded?




Plato would smack you in the face.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9043894 - 10/07/08 08:05 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality?

Yes initially, but the answers to their questions can sometimes alter their vision of reality. It's an ugly process.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBackwardsCap
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #9044014 - 10/07/08 08:28 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

so did you have a specific question in mind when posting?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: BackwardsCap]
    #9044033 - 10/07/08 08:32 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

me?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #9044336 - 10/07/08 09:22 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Yes initially, but the answers to their questions can sometimes alter their vision of reality. It's an ugly process.




i agree. but the "meta reality" is that your vision of reality will always be altered, with you knowing or not knowing it.

thus once you acknowledge the continuous process of reality changing around AND inside yourself then what?

in my view, as i experience it, all the questions are meaningless because the answers don't really matter. experiencing reality directly is what matters, and your relationship to it.


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OfflineBoots
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9044505 - 10/07/08 09:50 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, I agree with the assertion that all questions are conditioned to be thus so. And the answers given are conditioned as well. What other option is there? That every question is inherent?


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Boots]
    #9044549 - 10/07/08 09:59 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

imo the more you ask the more you get answers. and the answers don't "really" answer anything, they may only present you with more questions.

that's my take on it and i've reduced asking questions to a minimum. it seems far better to ask questions for yourself and seek a true answer. and then ask "why did i ask myself that?"

that way i always keep in check of myself as to where my interests and motives lie. and the more i practice this the more i start learning to find the answers myself. just looking them up in a book or deciding on an answer.

what i want to achieve by this is blurring the line between wasteful questioning and answering and reaching an amalgamation - where the answer is the question and vice versa.


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InvisibleArden
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9045558 - 10/08/08 12:46 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

If the validity of argumentation was paired with the subjectivity of the individual, then anything goes. Solipsism aside, such a standpoint makes for boring philosophical debate.

Quote:

aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality?




Assuming that reality always stays confined to the person. When one assumes external, disparate realities exist, then one must realize a subjective bias exists in any one particular world view.

In order to answer this question, you really need to define reality. It is localized in someone's mind, or does it exist independent of perception?


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Invisiblezannennagara
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9046072 - 10/08/08 03:17 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality? and that every idea the person thinks about & seeks answers to are available only in the world view of his/her views to reality.

what i mean is, the question represents the person himself, his views and experiences in life. that there is very little that is objective when it comes to existential questions because all those questions are very personal.

am i right, or am i deluded?




A person's questions/answers may be dependent on that person's vision of reality, but what is that dependent on? The more personal-seeming things can be explained in an objective way if the person seeks to do this - if we want to believe that subjectivity leads inevitably to existential despair and separation, we will have good company (interesting), but maybe not wanting those things we will look for the objectivity behind the subjectivity.

Subjectively, one poster could come in here and call you deluded and another could call you right, and your response would probably be to believe you're right, and even if you agree you're deluded you will assume you're right about that.

If they say you are deluded, they believe that philosospiritual questions are objective and independent of a person's vision, which means that your questions are objective and independent of your vision; they are universal concepts that apply to everyone.

If they say you are right, they believe that these questions are subjective and agree thus with the objectivity of your dilemma and questions; they are true and thus universal concepts that apply to everyone.

If there's going to be a theory on irreconcilable individual subjectivity, how could so many people agree on it?


--------------------
No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9047174 - 10/08/08 01:19 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

experiencing reality directly is what matters, and your relationship to it.

Why? How is that more meaningful then anything else?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9047718 - 10/08/08 03:21 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality? and that every idea the person thinks about & seeks answers to are available only in the world view of his/her views to reality.

what i mean is, the question represents the person himself, his views and experiences in life. that there is very little that is objective when it comes to existential questions because all those questions are very personal.

am i right, or am i deluded?




I think you got it both wrong & right, the two highest spiritual/philosohical questions are 'who are we?' & where do we come from?' all beings ponder this on some level, even if only very subtley.

When a being starts looking for absolute truth then the same questions will apply, so theres nothing personal about it really, maybe something personal seems like it brought them to ask such questions, like a death of a relative seems pretty personal & causes many people to seek the truth of existence, but the actuality of death itself is completely impersonal, as we ALL die, so it all seems very personal but all beings go through the same thing.

Your right in saying that there is very little objective investment when it comes to existential questions as the focus is beggining to turn away from the objects to wonder 'what is life, who am i?' & only the subject (taken to be personal) can satisfy these questions, it may feel personal as its internal, but essentially the search is universal not personal.

But the universal is discovered through diving deeper into what we casually take to be personal, so your both right & wrong.

Its a search for universal truth, so to find it there can't be a 'person' seeking it & finding it, its the universe discovered unto itself. :grin:

Quote:

Icelander said:
experiencing reality directly is what matters, and your relationship to it.

Why? How is that more meaningful then anything else?




WTF? You dont think reality & your relationship to it is the most important thing to experience? Seriously!?


:egyptian:


--------------------
________________________________


Edited by Chronic7 (10/08/08 03:42 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Chronic7]
    #9048983 - 10/08/08 07:02 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

WTF? You dont think reality & your relationship to it is the most important thing to experience? Seriously!?



No. I know I can't know what reality is. Pleasure and surrender would be my most important.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: BackwardsCap]
    #14777861 - 07/16/11 05:08 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

well this is a Transcendence question.
We all see the same reality, however, the words and the labels that we notice or see of it differ on account of our perceptions (the language of our Operating program, The Ego, Filter) that our minds run on.
In Talking to people and taking in the validity of other ideas, we begin to expand a more pure perception of reality.
For Example:
~ a circle of Artists sitting around a Still Life
~ Each artist draws a two dimensional image of what they see of the still life, in accordance with the limit of their veiw.
~ They give all of these 2D images to a sculptor.
~ The sculptor creates a 3D representation of the original still life.

I hope this helps
Light and Blessings


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #14778040 - 07/16/11 05:56 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

:ass:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Chronic7]
    #14778080 - 07/16/11 06:10 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:

But the universal is discovered through diving deeper into what we casually take to be personal, so your both right & wrong.

Quote:



Most agreed.
All Truths are Half Truths.
That is why we must be open to So Many ideas.


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #14778219 - 07/16/11 06:49 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
:ass:



I appreciate that one sided comment, how progressive.:spank:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #14778225 - 07/16/11 06:50 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I know it's not as progressive as digging up some old worn out thread from years ago. :braindamage:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #14778237 - 07/16/11 06:53 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

wasnt looking at the date
just the topic and subject.
time has little relevance in anything relevant.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #14778240 - 07/16/11 06:54 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Well don't forget to go through every thread ever posted here.:thumbup: :braindamage:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner] * 1
    #14779725 - 07/17/11 01:32 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality? and that every idea the person thinks about & seeks answers to are available only in the world view of his/her views to reality.

what i mean is, the question represents the person himself, his views and experiences in life. that there is very little that is objective when it comes to existential questions because all those questions are very personal.

am i right, or am i deluded?




i agree that the more existentially important an issue is, the more personally and intensely you will experience it


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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: g00ru]
    #14779772 - 07/17/11 01:49 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

You are not separate from reality!

'reality and your relationship to it'

How can you have a relationship with what you are?

'experiencing reality directly'

You can experience reality indirectly?


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #14782256 - 07/17/11 05:16 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

b]Icelander said:
Well don't forget to go through every thread ever posted here.:thumbup: :braindamage:




I may do that.
I may just Learn or Present a Valuable Lesson in Just the right place.


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: nonduality]
    #14782277 - 07/17/11 05:26 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nonduality said:
You are not separate from reality!

'reality and your relationship to it'

How can you have a relationship with what you are?

'experiencing reality directly'

You can experience reality indirectly?




This is True
We are All Drops in the Ocean.
However, Each Specific Water Molecule is Singular
To Dismiss/Deny either fact is Fallacy.

You are experiencing reality "directly" through your eyes (which sees everything upside-down), Processed in your brain (which flips the image) and then Labelled and categorized in your neural pathways.
So when you experience "Reality" you are experiencing the product of something that has been filtered and Categorized by your brain.
It is no longer the Raw Objective
It has become the Filtered Subjective


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #14782958 - 07/17/11 08:39 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Muffinman1552 said:
b]Icelander said:
Well don't forget to go through every thread ever posted here.:thumbup: :braindamage:




I may do that.
I may just Learn or Present a Valuable Lesson in Just the right place.




Well you're going to learn a shit load cause I'm all over in those old threads. At least you'll be learning from a Master.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #14783191 - 07/17/11 09:29 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Muffinman1552 said:
b]Icelander said:
Well don't forget to go through every thread ever posted here.:thumbup: :braindamage:




I may do that.
I may just Learn or Present a Valuable Lesson in Just the right place.




Well you're going to learn a shit load cause I'm all over in those old threads. At least you'll be learning from a Master.:satansmoking:




Alright, Lucem Ferre :flyingpig:
Let me show you the light.
Because I see none in your words.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552] * 1
    #14783242 - 07/17/11 09:39 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

:rofldrunk:

:popcorn:


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #14783399 - 07/17/11 10:16 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Muffinman1552 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Muffinman1552 said:
b]Icelander said:
Well don't forget to go through every thread ever posted here.:thumbup: :braindamage:




I may do that.
I may just Learn or Present a Valuable Lesson in Just the right place.






Well you're going to learn a shit load cause I'm all over in those old threads. At least you'll be learning from a Master.:satansmoking:




Alright, Lucem Ferre :flyingpig:
Let me show you the light.
Because I see none in your words.



There are none so blind as those who will not see. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #14783499 - 07/17/11 10:40 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Muffinman1552 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Muffinman1552 said:
b]Icelander said:
Well don't forget to go through every thread ever posted here.:thumbup: :braindamage:




I may do that.
I may just Learn or Present a Valuable Lesson in Just the right place.






Well you're going to learn a shit load cause I'm all over in those old threads. At least you'll be learning from a Master.:satansmoking:




Alright, Lucem Ferre :flyingpig:
Let me show you the light.
Because I see none in your words.



There are none so blind as those who will not see. :satansmoking:




Thats cute, did you get it out of a crackerjack box?
Is that what you post on all your threads?
Stolen quotes and Axioms from books like The Bible?
Do you have any light in your own thoughts?
Or are they all empty reflections of full ideas?
There are none so Annoying as The Mockingbird.
(excuse me,[sincerely] because I am sounding more aggressive than I Really Intend, and we are Way Off Subject)
:stopflaming:
:drama:
:offtopic:


Edited by Muffinman1552 (07/17/11 11:03 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552] * 1
    #14783506 - 07/17/11 10:41 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

:satansmoking: is good at bringing out the :devil: in you


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Kickle]
    #14783664 - 07/17/11 11:13 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
:satansmoking: is good at bringing out the :devil: in you



Theres a lighted concept.
Someone started a Fire.
:hellfire:


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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552]
    #14785151 - 07/18/11 08:43 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)


(excuse me,[sincerely] because I am sounding more aggressive than I Really Intend, and we are Way Off Subject)
:stopflaming:
:drama:
:offtopic:


It's normal to get aggressive when one feels threatened.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #14785190 - 07/18/11 09:11 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

OP is right.


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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: circastes]
    #14785469 - 07/18/11 11:15 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

We agree.:heart::lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #14785652 - 07/18/11 12:03 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

individual thought patterns are a part of the collective thought fractal so i am pretty smart i guess


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Offline4896744
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #14785781 - 07/18/11 12:36 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

What is a collective thought fractal?


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: 4896744]
    #14785802 - 07/18/11 12:41 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

thoughts take on a fractal form, as is quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about their own mind.  And there's a collective one of those, as is obvious to anyone who knows anything about where ideas come from.


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Offline4896744
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: g00ru]
    #14785823 - 07/18/11 12:46 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
thoughts take on a fractal form, as is quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about their own mind.  And there's a collective one of those, as is obvious to anyone who knows anything about where ideas come from.




What evidence do you have that thoughts take on a fractal form? What evidence do you have that there is a collective one?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: 4896744]
    #14785839 - 07/18/11 12:49 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

He thinks he's god so he ass umes he knows everything.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offline4896744
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
    #14785848 - 07/18/11 12:51 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
He thinks he's god so he ass umes he knows everything.:monkeydance:




Never before has the monkey dance been so appropriate. :lol:


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: 4896744]
    #14785887 - 07/18/11 01:01 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

well he uses it in like every post so it was bound to happen sooner or later


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have a g00d one! ^_^


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Offline4896744
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: g00ru]
    #14785911 - 07/18/11 01:07 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

It amuses me to watch the silly ape attempt to make himself feel meaningful.


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OfflineMuffinman1552
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: 4896744]
    #14785976 - 07/18/11 01:20 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

You shouldnt cassually dismiss valid ideas
Even If it Were absurdist, it still has a valid subcategory to fall under.
If you are dismissing these ideas, instead of understanding them, you are locking doors to the  infinite possibilities that naturally spawn from the universe.

Thoughts take on a fractal form, because thoughts branch out.
Like... where have I heard this before.. Oh yea, THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE.
If you have ever paid attention while you are researching, Learning or Thinking, you will notice that one idea branches out into 3 or four ideas (or even questions) and those branch and those branch... etc. And all the questions tend to (even if loosely) pertain to the Original idea. Like a fractal.
This Thread even (although on a linear format) is doing the same thing.

And heres more writing on the subject, if you wish to unlock the door.
If you follow the link you are going out onto a branch for example (which actually breaks the linear format)

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-chaotic-life/200909/fractal-brains-fractal-thoughts


(Yea the Monkey is getting on my nerves)


--------------------


The All is in All

(Everything posted from this profile is entirely hypothetical and possibly even fabricated)

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Edited by Muffinman1552 (07/18/11 01:24 PM)


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: g00ru] * 1
    #14786356 - 07/18/11 02:41 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
thoughts take on a fractal form, as is quite obvious to anybody who knows anything about their own mind.  And there's a collective one of those, as is obvious to anyone who knows anything about where ideas come from.



correct :thumbup:


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