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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Universe Cycling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9029936 - 10/04/08 08:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I think some philosophy minded people dont quite get the awesomely powerful predictive ability these theories have.  And, after all, predictive ability is the best measure of a theory... in science at least.  Are there any other good measures of a theory?  Maybe, but I haven't encountered them yet (I keep my eyes open though).

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Universe Cycling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9030259 - 10/04/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Let's assume the universe cycles: it goes from Big Bang to Big Crunch and repeats endlessy.

People who believe this to be so, please explain how it would be possible to arrive at this point in time.




People who believe that an infinite amount of time did not pass before now, please explain how the whole thing got started.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: Universe Cycling [Re: deCypher]
    #9030330 - 10/04/08 10:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Hiccup.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Universe Cycling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9030406 - 10/04/08 10:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Explain.

How does an infinite amount of time pass?




In an Oscillating Universe cosmology, such as Hindu thought has often held, Vishnu awakens from dreaming the universe (mythically) and it is retracted back into the Eternal Mind. Time is  finite. It emerges simultaneously with space because there cannot be form without extension. Zero dimension (Singularity) emits energy, hence one-dimensional rays or lines. Omnidirectional rays emitted from a point describes an expanding sphere. It expands, creating a sphere of space-time. The boundary of space-time is Unmanifest (uncreated and not yet existent), whch is why mytho-religious cosmology and metaphysics speaks of the Unmanifest Godhead of Infinite potentiality and creation of finite actuality. Space-time cannot be separated, it is an absurdity, and since it has a literal point of origination, it cannot be of infinite duration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalpa_(time_unit)


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinedirtydirt
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Re: Universe Cycling [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #9031208 - 10/05/08 04:28 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

(Isn't) that what cosmology is... general relativity and quantum physics applied to celestial bodies?




Right but as I said the applications are too simple. There are way too many unanswered questions and strange, supposedly unrelated phenomena that don't fit in the cosmic inflation view of the universe to begin considering it as truth. It is a hasty generalization, especially considering that gravity is hardly understood as a fundamental force and yet plays a central role in this theo

Quote:

How long do you think they should wait to accept theories that jive with observations?




Which observations? Be specific please!

Quote:

In an Oscillating Universe cosmology, such as Hindu thought has often held, Vishnu awakens from dreaming the universe (mythically) and it is retracted back into the Eternal Mind. Time is  finite. It emerges simultaneously with space because there cannot be form without extension...




Sounds like infinite divisions of the indivisible infinity. I think your space manifold has to be three dimensional for omnidirectional rays in that manifold to create a sphere. I tend to think it all starts with motion :psychsplit:

Edited by dirtydirt (10/05/08 04:30 AM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Universe Cycling [Re: dirtydirt]
    #9031746 - 10/05/08 10:29 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Sounds like infinite divisions of the indivisible infinity. I think your space manifold has to be three dimensional for omnidirectional rays in that manifold to create a sphere. I tend to think it all starts with motion

Right. But as soon as two rays are emitted, a two-dimensional plane is evolved, and so two and three spatial dimensions form simultaneously along with their extension from the point of Singularity, and extension which is linear necessarily denotes succession, duration, hence time.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Registered: 01/10/08
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. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #9031906 - 10/05/08 11:14 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

.


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.

Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 03:26 PM)

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Universe Cycling [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9032110 - 10/05/08 12:03 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I don't believe in a big crunch, but I do believe in an eternally (re)cycling universe.

Everything that can exists blinks in and out of existence in every possible way.

Everything possible has been an infinite number of times and will be an infinite number of times.

Perhaps its just time coiling itself through a completely static universe where all is manifest.

The big bang universe has a FINITE number of ways it can manifest itself. The universe throws out big bangs forever, containing every possible guise over and over again.

So, no infinite amount of time has to pass for X to happen. X (and in fact the whole alphabet) occurs with finite intervals.

From the Whole, nothing can be lost nor can anything be gained. It just oscillates.


The big bang material universe emerged from the quantum vacuum and shall dissolve in it. But there's no end to the "static" of stuff popping in and out of existence, its just that this particular "pop" we call the Universe doesnt last a nanosecond, but a googol (10100) years


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higher knowledge starts here

Edited by Asante (10/05/08 12:06 PM)

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Offlinedirtydirt
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Re: Universe Cycling [Re: Asante]
    #9033602 - 10/05/08 05:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Right. But as soon as two rays are emitted, a two-dimensional plane is evolved, and so two and three spatial dimensions form simultaneously along with their extension from the point of Singularity, and extension which is linear necessarily denotes succession, duration, hence time.




You're assuming that the one dimensional rays project onto a categorized manifold of at least three dimensions. The actual properties of space are completely uncertain. I agree with what you're saying but its nearly impossible to describe the evolution without mathematically categorizing space and that's where the problem is: there isn't a mathematical space on which every observable phenomena fits (yet). String theory has 10+ dimensions because it's an attempt to unify our understanding of quantum and relativistic space.


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