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InvisiblePGF
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Why should the US invade Iraq?
    #902898 - 09/23/02 11:18 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Here's your chance; all you Kool-Aid kids and brainwashed adults speak your mind, convince me and the other intelligent folks here that the US must invade Iraq.

Please try to provide multi-paragraph explanations. Stringing together seven or eight two syllable words is almost useless.

When possible, use your own personal insights and try not to rely too heavily on the misinformation your president has been feeding your press.



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***The Real Shroomery nigger


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #902978 - 09/23/02 11:43 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

To drive up the price of oil, this will increase profits for domestic producers of crude. Large oil refineries will hold down the market price of refined products, buying the higher priced crude and temporarily taking a loss which because of their size (and the fact that they are also producers) they will be able to absorb. Small oil refiners will have to pay the higher cost for crude but will not be able to hold down the price of refined products and will be driven out of business. (This happened during Gulf War I when I was working for Chevron Products Company).

To field test the latest military technologies and tactics.

To profit the military-industrial complex.

To gain a compliant regime in another oil rich nation.

To demonstrate to other nation-states the futility of opposing the American Empire and convince them of the wisdom of 'playing ball' the American way.

To distract attention from an increasing totalitarian government at home so the power elite (demopublicans and republicrats) may increase their control over the common man and install new safeguards to effectively deal with political dissent (in the name of fighting 'terrorism').


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #903069 - 09/24/02 12:07 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

That sounds correct....


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mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #903106 - 09/24/02 12:16 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

pretty much

i think the first paragraph is debatable though


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Lallafa]
    #903275 - 09/24/02 01:23 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

In reply to:

i think the first paragraph is debatable though



I know that you are a marxist and I understand that economics is not a subject that comes easily to you so I will try to explain...

If you look at the corporate structure of companies such as Chevron (whom I worked for). The refining or products division is a seperate company from the oil producing company (the division which drills for crude and sells it on the open market).

This is what happened during Gulf War I. The price of refined products DID increase, but not enough to make a profit. The large refineries puposely kept the prices low enough to destroy any profit margin for the small refiners (while recording a loss for themselves as well).

While the crude producers were making money hand over fist, the crude refiners were going into debt (many independants went bankrupt). After the 'shakeout' when crude prices fell, the prices of refined products did not fall as fast. During this period, the surviving refiners were again able to turn a profit which was a larger profit margin than normal, and made up for their losses which occured when crude prices were at their peak. The surving refiners also increased their market share by what was opened up with the demise of the independants.

Now, contrary to your marxist knee-jerk reaction (which I can see brewing in your little socialist head), this is not pure capitalism nor free market economics. This is an excellent example of what happens when too much power is in the hands of the government. This power is available to anyone who is willing to pay for it and attracts those who lust after it. The more power you give to government, the greater possiblity for corruption. The answer is not giving more power to the government as marxists want to do, for this will only increase the temptation and opportunities for corruption.


Edited by Evolving (09/24/02 12:10 PM)


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #904203 - 09/24/02 11:58 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Yup..your post summed it up nicely. A very basic view, but I think it's accurate.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #904864 - 09/24/02 04:39 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Let me explain my position a little more clearly as I am sure I left you with the wrong impression earlier.
Basically I just think that the UN should either enforce its resolutions or rescind them. If the UN is to remain a credible international force it has no choice. Although Iraq has shown a willingness to use WMD as a central part of its military and not as a weapon of last resort, it is certainly not the only threat we face. Israel is considered to be a larger threat and has also disregarded UN resolutions. The only reason that Iraq gets the attention is because he refuses to stay within its boarders and is the self proclaimed protector of the Arab world. Apparently Saudi Arabia doesn't see Iraq as their protector since they asked for US protection just prior to the Gulf War. I doubt Iran wants his protection either. None of this would have even happened if S.H. had stayed in his country and brought any problems (allegations of Kuwait sideways drilling to steal Iraq?s oil) to the UN. S.H. doesn't seem to have a problem using chem/bio weapons. Saddam ordered chemical weapons used against Iraqi Kurds and Iranian forces in the 1980s and killed thousands of people. And Iraq used massive amounts of chemical weapons during the latter part of the Iran - Iraq conflict. That is a fact. Iraq's use of chem weapons during the Iran-Iraq war, coupled with the ever-increasing production capabilities and capacities, indicate the willingness of Iraq's leadership to employ these weapons.

I just think the UN should put up or shut up. We should not take any unilateral action. If nothing is done it is the rest of the Arab world that will suffer the bulk of the consequence not American civilians. Yes oil is an issue but while we may currently be the largest consumer, by 2015 Asia?s developing economy and increasing population will make it the largest consumer and polluter in the world. The best thing we can do is to continue developing alternate energy technologies and moving towards an IT based economy rather than an industrial based economy. The more we decrease our need for fossil fuels, the faster we decrease our interest and involvement in the Middle East. But as of now we rely too much on it to turn our backs. Oil companies definity suck and are a hindrance to our move toward cleaner renewable energy sources. But the move is happening. As hybrid and alternate fuel vehicles become more affordable the market will shift accordingly.

Here is a report worth reading. Not specificaly related to this but an exelent report on global trends. In undertaking this comprehensive analysis, the NIC worked actively with a range of nongovernmental institutions and experts.
Global Trends 2015: A Dialogue About the Future With Nongovernment Experts


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #906193 - 09/25/02 02:37 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Bush has said he will act regardless of
support from other UN nations.

We are in Kuwait; we are at war.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #906198 - 09/25/02 02:39 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

Saddam ordered chemical weapons used against Iraqi Kurds and Iranian forces in the 1980s and killed thousands of people.




That is why we put him in power. We did not like Iran very much in the 80's.

Iran, unlike Iraq, is full of fundamental Islamic extremists,

Iraq is a country of moderate Islamists.



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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #906207 - 09/25/02 02:42 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

The best thing we can do is to continue developing alternate energy technologies and moving towards an IT based economy rather than an industrial based economy.




Your republican representatives who've made their fortunes in the oil business have paid little more than lip service to the idea of alternative energies.

We are in Afghanistan now not to punish some small group of terrorists. We are in Afghanistan so that an oil pipeline can be laid across their country.



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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #906890 - 09/25/02 10:49 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Bush has said he will act regardless of support from other UN nations.


Not without congressional approval if he knows what is good for him and the republican party.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #906898 - 09/25/02 10:53 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Your republican representatives who've made their fortunes in the oil business have paid little more than lip service to the idea of alternative energies.

Of course not, the public has to create the demand.

We are in Afghanistan now not to punish some small group of terrorists. We are in Afghanistan so that an oil pipeline can be laid across their country.

Where did you get this info from? Is there a verifyable source?

Propaganda wars are waged on both sides. The truth is somewhere in the middle.


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #907014 - 09/25/02 12:28 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Here is a page which presents the arguments for this idea in a concise and amusing conspiracy-theory way. While this page comes off as being extremist, there are some good points presented. On the other side we have this page from BBC. I think the truth probably lies somewhere between these presentations.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #907050 - 09/25/02 12:53 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

They both basically say the same thing I've said from the very start...It's all about the oil.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #907511 - 09/25/02 04:39 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

to keep ppls minds off the stock market so that the repoops will win congress.


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Invisiblecdogandursa
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #907962 - 09/25/02 08:27 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Sadamme insane has weapons of mass destruction but so does the US. So what bla bla bla. YOu people always think of monee running everything. Could it possibly be a ploy to raise his public opinion? The stupids will think that he is a courageous man ridding the world of evil. Aha! The greedy coke monster's plans have been unveiled!

Greed is the root of all evil... not money.

Now a string of 2 syllable words: bush is a dandy leader and a good man. In the land of the free we must keep the world free of bad and evil people. We have to kill people to save others that might not even die. Bark!!!Bark!!!!


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: cdogandursa]
    #908400 - 09/25/02 11:51 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

What will you all say if he is able to change the minds of the other nations and build a coalition? That we have them all so firmly under our thumb that they will agree to anything? That the rest of the world is just that stupid as to be tricked into it?

S.H. is a man who has insecurity issues ( stated by ex Iraqi cabinet members on FOX News) and his military strategy employs chem/bio weapons as a central part of his strategy. This is an important distinction between other countries who have stockpiles. The compare us having this stuff with S.H. having it is a ridiculous and naive thing to do. It is apples and oranges.

If his people thought he was worth a shit 1/3 of his army would not have deserted and given up without a fight. Remember the reporter that had a whole battalion surrender to him? Soldiers don't do that if they are fighting for someone who treats them and the people right. Why is S.H. so afraid of his own republican guard who are supposed to be specifically for his protection? They hate him is why.

Would you turn your back on a murderer while he buys a gun? Or a pedophile who is watching children play at a park?

This world is not like mamas womb where it is all warm and cushy. There are real threats and real bad people. The U.S. has fought for oppressed peoples all over the globe where there is no oil. Our men have died to give freedom to peoples that would have it.

I for one hope that a coalition can be built to destroy S.H.! In a perfect world we would be able to sneak in and do it with a single shot without any more blood spilt but his, but this world is not perfect.




Actually it is perfect in its imperfection but that is a different conversation.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #908655 - 09/26/02 01:18 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

In reply to:

The U.S. has fought for oppressed peoples all over the globe where there is no oil.


Uh huh...and when was the last time that happened?


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Rono]
    #908829 - 09/26/02 02:13 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

WWII


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OfflineTrOmAn
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #909098 - 09/26/02 04:47 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

PGF: Because Bush has Intel that would scare the shit outta the sheeple, especially Israel....Saddam has nukes...and directly threatened Israel....Bush takes orders directly from "the chosen people"...get a clue


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #909368 - 09/26/02 10:57 AM (19 years, 3 days ago)

In reply to:

WWII


Come on now...you must be able to think of a more recent example than that?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Rono]
    #909476 - 09/26/02 12:43 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Grenada

*snort*


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #909536 - 09/26/02 01:03 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

I'm impressed you even remember Grenada! For those of you unfamiliar with it, here is a short summary "The invasion of Grenada in late 1983 can be seen as a small part of the rivalry between the U.S. and Cuba during the Reagan years. A bloody coup in Grenada, along with a perceived threat to American students on the island provided the U.S. with an excellent excuse to eliminate a Marxist regime allied to Fidel Castro's Cuba." It should also be noted that on October 23, 1983, American foreign policy and pride suffered when a Muslim suicide bomber destroyed the Marine barracks in Beirut, killing 240 U.S. Marines. A successful campaign in Grenada would prove helpful in alleviating the pain of that setback.

Not really the best example..but I'll tip my hat to you on that one.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (09/26/02 01:05 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Rono]
    #910132 - 09/26/02 05:19 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

In reply to:

I'm impressed you even remember Grenada!



My grasp of world events and history would surprise you. I love to stay informed and learn things. I'm probably the only one I know that can name all the supreme court justices.

In reply to:

Not really the best example..but I'll tip my hat to you on that one.



It was the first that came to mind, hence the "snort".


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #910522 - 09/26/02 08:52 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

>>>>> Why should the US invade Iraq? <<<<<

Because its good training and we know we can win...

Besides, whats a few hundred thousand dead Iraqis? Once we controll the oil flow in the middle east everyone will thank us for bringing Christianity and Democeracy to them...

Its win win...


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Offlinehtownkid28
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Rono]
    #910821 - 09/26/02 10:52 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

somalia


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Rono]
    #910871 - 09/26/02 11:12 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Dominican Republic, 1965.

I was going to say Somalia, but I was too slow.

pinky


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OfflineMortMtroN
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Phred]
    #910965 - 09/26/02 11:47 PM (19 years, 2 days ago)

It seems hypocritical to me. No....Wait....It IS hypocritical. Bush wants to bomb Iraq as a pre-emptive strike. He says that Iraq will get nuclear weapons soon. What's this about nuclear weapons? The US is the only country ever to use a nuke in a war. The Us probably has more nukes than any other country. We sold Saddam botulism and anthrax back in the day. Maybe a better way to move toward peace would be by starting by setting a good example to the rest of the world. How can we criticize Saddam for doing what everyone else is doing?


Edited by MortMtroN (09/26/02 11:47 PM)


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: MortMtroN]
    #911010 - 09/27/02 12:10 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

We dropped those nukes and stopped the war. More lives would have been lost if the war had not ended. If we had not done it someone else would have. likely the germans and you would be speaking german now. We were just barely ahead of them in making a bomb. S.H. activly and openly uses WMDs as a centeral part of his military stratagy. There is no comparison between us and him. Not that we are innocent but that comparison is silly.


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Offlinefoghorn
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #911070 - 09/27/02 12:35 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

The idea of a pre-emptive strike is totally nuts!

Bush wants to hit Saddam before Saddam hits Bush; seems rational dont it?

But by such standards, would Saddam not be 100% justfied in attacking Bush, in his own pre-emptive strike before Bush hits him? In fact, he already KNOWS Bush is coming for his ass, he shoulda nuked our asses yesterday!

AHhhh the hypocracy!!!


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: foghorn]
    #911095 - 09/27/02 12:42 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Agreed...


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #911372 - 09/27/02 03:02 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Military force has a great power of clarity.
War, in other words, destroys pretense.

As we have seen in the current crisis, those who are the most educated, the most removed from the often humiliating rat race of daily life (what Hobbes called the bellum omnium contra omnes), and the most inexperienced with thugs and bullies, are the likeliest to advocate utopian solutions and to ridicule those who would remind them of the tragic nature of mankind and the timeless nature of war. Ironically, they are also the most likely to get others less fortunate than themselves killed ? as we saw in World War II, and most recently during the last decade in Iraq, Serbia, and in our ongoing experience with the Middle Eastern terrorists. McClellans ? not Shermans; Chamberlains ? not Churchills; and Clintons ? not Reagans, usually pose as the more sensible, compassionate, and circumspect leaders; but in fact, even as they smile and pump the flesh, they prove far, far more dangerous to all involved.

The pacifists and utopians who believe war never solved anything should recall the words of the firebrand, slave-owning, and utterly lethal Nathan Bedford Forrest upon learning that many of his fellow Confederates were promising years of guerrilla warfare after 1865. "Men, you may all do as you please, but I'm a-going home. Any man who is in favor of a further prosecution of this war is a fit subject for a lunatic asylum, and ought to be sent there immediately."

Mr. Forrest was a brave man and formidable fighter ? indeed, he had personally killed 29 Union soldiers in battle and had 30 horses shot from under him. But what made him give up the fight was neither Abolitionist rhetoric nor a sudden change of heart, but the likes of William Tecumseh Sherman ? who tore through Georgia and the Carolinas ? and the thousands of Union cavalrymen that overran Forrest's beloved Tennessee.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #911403 - 09/27/02 03:22 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

1. Iraq sponsors terrorism against Israel.
2. Iraq harbors Al Qaeda (and may have helped train some) which kills us here in America.
3. We treat those that sponsor or harbor terrorists as terrorists if they refuse to surrender.
4. Iraq refuses to surrender.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #911408 - 09/27/02 03:25 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

Iraq refuses to surrender in the terror war....
I refuse to surrender in the drug war...
America see's us both as terrorist.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #911433 - 09/27/02 03:50 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

You cannot logically compare the 'war on drugs' to the Al Qaeda/terror war. The drug war is being waged by making laws against contraband and when people get caught with contraband and get caught breaking the law they are going to jail. The terror war as you've called it, is a battle for our lives against an organized force that wants to kill us all. The terrorists want us all dead, men, women, and children. They consider office building the same as military targets. They walk in to pizza shops and churches to kill as many innocent people as they can. What part of this is so difficult for you to understand?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #911441 - 09/27/02 03:59 AM (19 years, 2 days ago)

"The terror war as you've called it, is a battle for our lives against an organized force that wants to kill us all"

I bet they would stop caring if we left them alone instead of wetting our beak in every political well on earth.

I know I sure would.

:grin:


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #912854 - 09/27/02 06:44 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Military force has a great power of clarity.

So do two jumbo jets slamming into skyscrapers.

Drop another load of high explosive on little brown people and you better get used to terrorism cos it will give rise to a thousand Bin Ladens. That the kind of clarity you want?

Peace has a far greater clarity - put as much effort and money into resolving the Palestine problem and you'll do more for ending terrorism than any war will ever do.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #913077 - 09/27/02 08:29 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

In reply to:

Military force has a great power of clarity.
War, in other words, destroys pretense.



Where did you get that from Hitler or Stalin?

In reply to:

As we have seen in the current crisis, those who are the most educated, the most removed from the often humiliating rat race of daily life (what Hobbes called the bellum omnium contra omnes), and the most inexperienced with thugs and bullies, are the likeliest to advocate utopian solutions and to ridicule those who would remind them of the tragic nature of mankind and the timeless nature of war.



This is bass ackwards. Who are the greatest hawks in the current administration? Those who never served in combat. Who is the one in the administration who has pushed most for diplomatic solutions? Colin Powell, someone who has served in battle.

In reply to:

Ironically, they are also the most likely to get others less fortunate than themselves killed ? as we saw in World War II, and most recently during the last decade in Iraq, Serbia, and in our ongoing experience with the Middle Eastern terrorists. McClellans ? not Shermans; Chamberlains ? not Churchills; and Clintons ? not Reagans, usually pose as the more sensible, compassionate, and circumspect leaders; but in fact, even as they smile and pump the flesh, they prove far, far more dangerous to all involved.



You're comparing apples to oranges. The reality of the situation, as Alex123 pointed out, is that by continuing on it's current course, the U.S. government will be taking actions which will INCREASE the likelyhood of future terrorism. Those most likely to suffer form these acts of terrorism, will NOT be the 'leaders' who are making these decisions, but others less fortunate than themselves ? as we saw in World War II.

In reply to:

The pacifists and utopians who believe war never solved anything...



There are those of us who are neither pacifists nor utopians who have rationally come to the conclusion the current course of action is neither warranted, wise nor in the best interests of the U.S. It would be better if we as a nation would heed the words of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson who admonished us to avoid entangling and permanent alliances and seek peaceful commerce with all peoples. The U.S, should neither be the world's policeman, nor an empire but a republic which adheres to the basic principles of it's founding.


Edited by Evolving (09/27/02 08:58 PM)


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #913140 - 09/27/02 08:54 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Present day US is seeming more and more like cold-war USSR. We are not an empire that needs to conquer and rule over other nations. We certainly do not need to be this strike first nation that Bush is trying so hard to erect.

It's all ludicrous to me. Does no one who is on the Bush side know what war entails? Does no one value human life anymore?


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #913376 - 09/27/02 10:34 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Give the Iraqi people half a chance and they would kill Saddam for us. Saddam has many enemies and if we can take him from power without loss of innocent life I don't think we will make any more enemies than we already have.Almost no one will be sorry to see him go.

Our goal is to remove Saddam not kill all the brown skinned people. Quit pretending that just killing people indiscriminately is what we are doing.

The power to declare war lies in the congress, why blame Bush. You think he is the most educated, and removed and inexperienced with thugs and bullies? I always figured he cheated in school and got his ass kicked in between snorting lines.

In reply to:

It would be better if we as a nation would heed the words of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson who admonished us to avoid entangling and permanent alliances and seek peaceful commerce with all peoples. The U.S, should neither be the world's policeman, nor an empire but a republic which adheres to the basic principles of it's founding.




I agree but we can't just cut all ties in an instant, Part of our problem is that we have turned our back on peoples we made promises to.


--------------------
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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #913377 - 09/27/02 10:34 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

I know they are feeding us propaganda. I don't really give a fuck. Let em kill off the muslims and arabs one by one.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #913405 - 09/27/02 10:41 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

In reply to:

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.





Your claiming an aliance with the Butcher of Bagdad because you want to smoke some pot? If they took away my right to bear arms I might consider that slightly less than foolish.
That's is treason. What now, blow up some DEA buildings?


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Xlea321]
    #913434 - 09/27/02 10:51 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

In reply to:

Peace has a far greater clarity



I disagree. Pain brings clarity, comfort bring sleepy lathargisism. As long as population continues to grow and resources dwindle there will never be world peace.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: downforpot]
    #913439 - 09/27/02 10:53 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

In reply to:

I know they are feeding us propaganda. I don't really give a fuck. Let em kill off the muslims and arabs one by one.




That is foolishness in the other direction.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #913460 - 09/27/02 11:03 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

just fucking with rail gun, chill.. :tongue:


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #913586 - 09/27/02 11:54 PM (19 years, 1 day ago)

Thank Alah! :grin:

P.S. whore!


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Edited by mntlfngrs (09/27/02 11:55 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #914436 - 09/28/02 10:08 AM (19 years, 1 day ago)

As long as population continues to grow and resources dwindle there will never be world peace.

Isn't really the population, there's way more than enough food to feed everyone on earth many times over already. The problem is capitalism - meaning countries are run for short term profits as opposed to human needs. You either feed people or maximise profits.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Xlea321]
    #914724 - 09/28/02 01:49 PM (19 years, 21 hours ago)

In reply to:

Isn't really the population, there's way more than enough food to feed everyone on earth many times over already.



This much is true, but your next statements are way off base...

In reply to:

The problem is capitalism - meaning countries are run for short term profits as opposed to human needs. You either feed people or maximise profits.



Those are very ignorant statements. The countries with the greatest state control of their markets have the greatest difficulty feeding their populace. Care to compare the region which became known as the Soviet Union, before communism and after communism? Before communism (when it was more capitalistic) the region was a net grain exporter, after communism, it had to rely on the generosity and grain imports from the west (more capitalistic countries). Care to compare North Korea to South Korea?

Has it ever occured to you that if you're in the business of producing food stuffs, that one of the easiest way to maximaze profit is by getting your product to as many people as possible? Do you think it is in the best economic interests of food producers for people to starve, for their potential customers to die off? In the west, the problem isn't capitalism, it's statism. Governments hand out economic favors, interfere in the marketplace and pay food producers not to produce. They pay farmers to keep their fields fallow. This is not capitalism. In more socialist/communist countries, the governments take away the profit incentive so there is no point in producing more food. Why should a farmer labor from sun up to sun down, invest in capital improvements and labor saving devices only to have the government take away what it considers 'excess profits?' That stupid marxist maxim, 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs' does more to foster starvation than any corporate farm.

I would suggest that you read 'Economics in One Lesson' by Henry Hazlitt. You'll learn a lot more about how markets really work from this primer than all your socialist professors and marxist based publications combined.


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #915149 - 09/28/02 05:21 PM (19 years, 18 hours ago)

Fuck off dick head

How's that for your pee nis sized brain?

That which a man had rather were true he more readily believes.

Thomas Bacon


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #915158 - 09/28/02 05:26 PM (19 years, 18 hours ago)

"I'm probably the only one I know that can name all the supreme court justices."

Make that probably the only one who frequents this forum, etc.

I know them and which President they came in under. This election is important.

Cheers,


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #915175 - 09/28/02 05:32 PM (19 years, 18 hours ago)

I don't need to make it this forum or any other.

I said "the only one I know", unless we've met before I don't know you. If I had said "the only one I know of" you would have a point.

It is an important election. I can only hope the Republicans regain control of the Senate and keep control of the House.

My prediction is they will.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (09/28/02 05:32 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #915176 - 09/28/02 05:32 PM (19 years, 17 hours ago)

Do you think it is in the best economic interests of food producers for people to starve, for their potential customers to die off?

No, it's in the best interests of food producers to maximise profit. If they can make more profit from selling food to 50,000 people at a higher price than selling it to 500,000 at a lower price this is what they will do.

Why do you think Nike charge so much for a pair of trainers? They could sell them for the production price and sell millions more trainers - they don't do this because it simply doesn't maximise profits.

It's nothing to do with "marxism" just simple common sense.


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Xlea321]
    #915183 - 09/28/02 05:35 PM (19 years, 17 hours ago)

So you're back. I thought after you made an ass of yourself attributing a question to me that I didn't ask... that you had left. I guess you were just busy reading some more of the foolish pap you read.

Well, it was nice while your absence lasted.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #915203 - 09/28/02 05:41 PM (19 years, 17 hours ago)

Knowing is a relative term. I was assuming that you noticed me when we were in the same forum from time to time. I think, this was long ago, we even exchanged comments. Now that doesn't mean I know you explicitly but that I recognize you when you post.

I'm not quibbling, just elaborating.

I am a political analyst/consultant. I do not post here because I am very involved in politics elsewhere. I come here to take a break from it.

Besides, I have yet to find one person whose mind can be changed by introducing them to facts. People's personal investment in the outcomes usually precludes that.

If you are not a precinct committeeman you should be given the passion you feel about things of this nature. I recommend that to everyone who is passionate about the issues not matter which side of the coin they flip.

Cheers,


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #915224 - 09/28/02 05:49 PM (19 years, 17 hours ago)

Yes I've seen most of your posts. Perhaps it is either a failure on my part that I can be so specific, or perhaps you're just not used to people who say what they mean. That's why I used the term "know" instead of "know of".
In reply to:

Besides, I have yet to find one person whose mind can be changed by introducing them to facts.



Too true.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #915245 - 09/28/02 05:55 PM (19 years, 17 hours ago)

I guess you were just busy reading

Ah yes, reading. Perish the thought eh? Learning something new, what a terrifying concept that must be to you.

Instruct us once again in the tao of the moron...


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #915267 - 09/28/02 06:03 PM (19 years, 17 hours ago)

Speaking literally is a rarity around here. I have made a mental note of your precision. That should clear up any future misunderstandings.

Cheers,


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Xlea321]
    #915283 - 09/28/02 06:16 PM (19 years, 17 hours ago)

In reply to:

Instruct us once again in the tao of the moron...



How can one instruct the master of all morons?

I wouldn't even begin to try.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #915330 - 09/28/02 06:38 PM (19 years, 16 hours ago)

Every post you make teaches us a little more  :grin:


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Xlea321]
    #915391 - 09/28/02 07:03 PM (19 years, 16 hours ago)

If only yours could do the same.

Too bad your responses did not become any better during your too short absence. At least your feeble attempts are mildly amusing.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #915812 - 09/28/02 10:53 PM (19 years, 12 hours ago)

In reply to:

Fuck off dick head

How's that for your pee nis sized brain?

That which a man had rather were true he more readily believes.

Thomas Bacon

Plato





LOOK everybody!
a mod that does nothing but flame.....
how competant are your leaders to apopoint such a moe ron?

anyway, I'm mostly happy with the way this thread turned oot.

I am glad there is strong opposition to this farcical stance of Bush, here within our ranks.

no war for oil kids. words for you to grow up by


--------------------
***The Real Shroomery nigger


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #915959 - 09/28/02 11:49 PM (19 years, 11 hours ago)

Flame?

Isn't that the idiot calling the kettle black?

Your venom has made you a legend on your own mind. Aren't you proud?

I have watched you for a long time. Even though there wasn't much to see.

Here have a lolly, sucker.


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #916359 - 09/29/02 06:00 AM (19 years, 5 hours ago)

I might quote myself here:
'America sends more of its citizens to death than many third world countries, american citizens receive the worst education of first world, US police have more powers than any other first world nation, unless your a millionaire in the US you have no policital representation and the US has the most biased media of the first world.
Great democracy - great leader of the freeworld!!
On a recent poll on Australia's joke show 'CNNNN' 90% of american citizens polled in New York believed that IRAQI citizens were involved in WTC terrorism!! Ignorance is bliss...
It looks like Rupert Murdoch, the aussie is doing a great job of shrouding the American citizens once again from any idea of the real situation in the world.'
PGF you need to get off your arse, go out and participate in society. Are your mum and dad happy that you live in a trailor and sit on the shroomery all day??


--------------------


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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: PGF]
    #916594 - 09/29/02 11:47 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)



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Hugs and Kisses!


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #916944 - 09/29/02 04:15 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

I have yet to find one person whose mind can be changed by introducing them to facts.



It's happened before with me, for an example of another look at the opinions of William F. Buckley Jr. on drug legalization and how they changed over the years.

The problem with many political opinions, as someone once said, is that they are partisan interests masquerading as principle. Humans as a general rule are not rational beings, but beings who rationalize - this is most evident in the world of politics.


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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #917903 - 09/29/02 11:58 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I know that America is not a Democracy. We talked about this shit in class. I don't give a fuck if its a not Democracy. As long as I don't see crazy arabs runnin around with bombs, thats kool with me, do whatever you want.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: downforpot]
    #919981 - 09/30/02 07:11 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Would you like see UN/NWO storm troopers (VERY Hitler like gestapo)? Which tell you what is ok to put in your bodys and what isn't?

Like mr. mushrooms said............. "Ignorance is bliss"

And another thing this isn't about iraq either it (like the drug war), is only the fourging of the New World Order.

I intrigued to hear you opinon about the NWO? (And i don't even want to hear about me being parinoid thinking the NWO is only conspiracy theory, because now ABC has mentioned it, and its rearing its ugly head now!)


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


Edited by johnnyfive (09/30/02 07:19 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Macey Howard]
    #920929 - 09/30/02 07:32 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

It is amazing how much crap is posted in a serious thread.....

anyway, I do not understand how the US's new stance position
on imperialism makes them a posistive forcve for the world order......

This United States has so mush power and money and now they want
to take over the world, it seems. Scares me, for one.


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OfflineT0aD
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 4,475
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #921470 - 10/01/02 02:53 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I thinks USA`s diplomacy sucks... thats how all the people see it, if their countries are not in the Europe... Okay I live in Bulgaria ( most of you seem to know that ) and Ill write some shit down
When you attacked Serbia - and why ? what the fuck is your point messing in an problem you arent taking part in ?????? there were three rockets that by mistake were fired in BG, not in serbia. one of them fell 100 meters near my old school I used to go then and we went in a mourning to see the destructed house... fuck that house, but why do you stick YOUR FUCKING FINGER everywhere... of course there will be terrorism acts against you, when you are the biggest 'LEGAL' terrorist ! Think about that... Now iraq, before Chile and many many more
I just wanted to write some things that are damn right, peace .


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Cuba Libre


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Offlineshianggu
member
Registered: 03/24/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Asia
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: T0aD]
    #921658 - 10/01/02 06:15 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Sorry to hear about what happened near you. Civilians should never be targeted  :mad: 


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OfflineT0aD
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Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 4,475
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: shianggu]
    #922341 - 10/01/02 12:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

yes. another thing is the media hides that from you. I told that to an american I was talking with 3 years ago, in Belize, I was there with my parents... He didnt know that too...


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Cuba Libre


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: T0aD]
    #922410 - 10/01/02 01:15 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Well said Toad. Serbia was one of the US and UK many crimes against humanity.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineT0aD
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Xlea321]
    #927784 - 10/03/02 06:59 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

:ooo:


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Cuba Libre


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OfflineT0aD
Stranger

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Posts: 4,475
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: T0aD]
    #934168 - 10/05/02 11:24 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

make a revolution then ! :laugh:


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Cuba Libre


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