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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #909368 - 09/26/02 10:57 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

WWII


Come on now...you must be able to think of a more recent example than that?


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Rono]
    #909476 - 09/26/02 12:43 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Grenada

*snort*


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #909536 - 09/26/02 01:03 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

I'm impressed you even remember Grenada! For those of you unfamiliar with it, here is a short summary "The invasion of Grenada in late 1983 can be seen as a small part of the rivalry between the U.S. and Cuba during the Reagan years. A bloody coup in Grenada, along with a perceived threat to American students on the island provided the U.S. with an excellent excuse to eliminate a Marxist regime allied to Fidel Castro's Cuba." It should also be noted that on October 23, 1983, American foreign policy and pride suffered when a Muslim suicide bomber destroyed the Marine barracks in Beirut, killing 240 U.S. Marines. A successful campaign in Grenada would prove helpful in alleviating the pain of that setback.

Not really the best example..but I'll tip my hat to you on that one.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (09/26/02 01:05 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Rono]
    #910132 - 09/26/02 05:19 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

I'm impressed you even remember Grenada!



My grasp of world events and history would surprise you. I love to stay informed and learn things. I'm probably the only one I know that can name all the supreme court justices.

In reply to:

Not really the best example..but I'll tip my hat to you on that one.



It was the first that came to mind, hence the "snort".


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: PGF]
    #910522 - 09/26/02 08:52 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

>>>>> Why should the US invade Iraq? <<<<<

Because its good training and we know we can win...

Besides, whats a few hundred thousand dead Iraqis? Once we controll the oil flow in the middle east everyone will thank us for bringing Christianity and Democeracy to them...

Its win win...


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Offlinehtownkid28
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Rono]
    #910821 - 09/26/02 10:52 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

somalia


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Rono]
    #910871 - 09/26/02 11:12 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Dominican Republic, 1965.

I was going to say Somalia, but I was too slow.

pinky


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OfflineMortMtroN
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Phred]
    #910965 - 09/26/02 11:47 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

It seems hypocritical to me. No....Wait....It IS hypocritical. Bush wants to bomb Iraq as a pre-emptive strike. He says that Iraq will get nuclear weapons soon. What's this about nuclear weapons? The US is the only country ever to use a nuke in a war. The Us probably has more nukes than any other country. We sold Saddam botulism and anthrax back in the day. Maybe a better way to move toward peace would be by starting by setting a good example to the rest of the world. How can we criticize Saddam for doing what everyone else is doing?


Edited by MortMtroN (09/26/02 11:47 PM)


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: MortMtroN]
    #911010 - 09/27/02 12:10 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

We dropped those nukes and stopped the war. More lives would have been lost if the war had not ended. If we had not done it someone else would have. likely the germans and you would be speaking german now. We were just barely ahead of them in making a bomb. S.H. activly and openly uses WMDs as a centeral part of his military stratagy. There is no comparison between us and him. Not that we are innocent but that comparison is silly.


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Offlinefoghorn
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #911070 - 09/27/02 12:35 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

The idea of a pre-emptive strike is totally nuts!

Bush wants to hit Saddam before Saddam hits Bush; seems rational dont it?

But by such standards, would Saddam not be 100% justfied in attacking Bush, in his own pre-emptive strike before Bush hits him? In fact, he already KNOWS Bush is coming for his ass, he shoulda nuked our asses yesterday!

AHhhh the hypocracy!!!


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: foghorn]
    #911095 - 09/27/02 12:42 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Agreed...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #911372 - 09/27/02 03:02 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Military force has a great power of clarity.
War, in other words, destroys pretense.

As we have seen in the current crisis, those who are the most educated, the most removed from the often humiliating rat race of daily life (what Hobbes called the bellum omnium contra omnes), and the most inexperienced with thugs and bullies, are the likeliest to advocate utopian solutions and to ridicule those who would remind them of the tragic nature of mankind and the timeless nature of war. Ironically, they are also the most likely to get others less fortunate than themselves killed ? as we saw in World War II, and most recently during the last decade in Iraq, Serbia, and in our ongoing experience with the Middle Eastern terrorists. McClellans ? not Shermans; Chamberlains ? not Churchills; and Clintons ? not Reagans, usually pose as the more sensible, compassionate, and circumspect leaders; but in fact, even as they smile and pump the flesh, they prove far, far more dangerous to all involved.

The pacifists and utopians who believe war never solved anything should recall the words of the firebrand, slave-owning, and utterly lethal Nathan Bedford Forrest upon learning that many of his fellow Confederates were promising years of guerrilla warfare after 1865. "Men, you may all do as you please, but I'm a-going home. Any man who is in favor of a further prosecution of this war is a fit subject for a lunatic asylum, and ought to be sent there immediately."

Mr. Forrest was a brave man and formidable fighter ? indeed, he had personally killed 29 Union soldiers in battle and had 30 horses shot from under him. But what made him give up the fight was neither Abolitionist rhetoric nor a sudden change of heart, but the likes of William Tecumseh Sherman ? who tore through Georgia and the Carolinas ? and the thousands of Union cavalrymen that overran Forrest's beloved Tennessee.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #911403 - 09/27/02 03:22 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

1. Iraq sponsors terrorism against Israel.
2. Iraq harbors Al Qaeda (and may have helped train some) which kills us here in America.
3. We treat those that sponsor or harbor terrorists as terrorists if they refuse to surrender.
4. Iraq refuses to surrender.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #911408 - 09/27/02 03:25 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Iraq refuses to surrender in the terror war....
I refuse to surrender in the drug war...
America see's us both as terrorist.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


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RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
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relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #911433 - 09/27/02 03:50 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

You cannot logically compare the 'war on drugs' to the Al Qaeda/terror war. The drug war is being waged by making laws against contraband and when people get caught with contraband and get caught breaking the law they are going to jail. The terror war as you've called it, is a battle for our lives against an organized force that wants to kill us all. The terrorists want us all dead, men, women, and children. They consider office building the same as military targets. They walk in to pizza shops and churches to kill as many innocent people as they can. What part of this is so difficult for you to understand?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #911441 - 09/27/02 03:59 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

"The terror war as you've called it, is a battle for our lives against an organized force that wants to kill us all"

I bet they would stop caring if we left them alone instead of wetting our beak in every political well on earth.

I know I sure would.

:grin:


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #912854 - 09/27/02 06:44 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Military force has a great power of clarity.

So do two jumbo jets slamming into skyscrapers.

Drop another load of high explosive on little brown people and you better get used to terrorism cos it will give rise to a thousand Bin Ladens. That the kind of clarity you want?

Peace has a far greater clarity - put as much effort and money into resolving the Palestine problem and you'll do more for ending terrorism than any war will ever do.


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Anonymous

Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #913077 - 09/27/02 08:29 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

In reply to:

Military force has a great power of clarity.
War, in other words, destroys pretense.



Where did you get that from Hitler or Stalin?

In reply to:

As we have seen in the current crisis, those who are the most educated, the most removed from the often humiliating rat race of daily life (what Hobbes called the bellum omnium contra omnes), and the most inexperienced with thugs and bullies, are the likeliest to advocate utopian solutions and to ridicule those who would remind them of the tragic nature of mankind and the timeless nature of war.



This is bass ackwards. Who are the greatest hawks in the current administration? Those who never served in combat. Who is the one in the administration who has pushed most for diplomatic solutions? Colin Powell, someone who has served in battle.

In reply to:

Ironically, they are also the most likely to get others less fortunate than themselves killed ? as we saw in World War II, and most recently during the last decade in Iraq, Serbia, and in our ongoing experience with the Middle Eastern terrorists. McClellans ? not Shermans; Chamberlains ? not Churchills; and Clintons ? not Reagans, usually pose as the more sensible, compassionate, and circumspect leaders; but in fact, even as they smile and pump the flesh, they prove far, far more dangerous to all involved.



You're comparing apples to oranges. The reality of the situation, as Alex123 pointed out, is that by continuing on it's current course, the U.S. government will be taking actions which will INCREASE the likelyhood of future terrorism. Those most likely to suffer form these acts of terrorism, will NOT be the 'leaders' who are making these decisions, but others less fortunate than themselves ? as we saw in World War II.

In reply to:

The pacifists and utopians who believe war never solved anything...



There are those of us who are neither pacifists nor utopians who have rationally come to the conclusion the current course of action is neither warranted, wise nor in the best interests of the U.S. It would be better if we as a nation would heed the words of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson who admonished us to avoid entangling and permanent alliances and seek peaceful commerce with all peoples. The U.S, should neither be the world's policeman, nor an empire but a republic which adheres to the basic principles of it's founding.


Edited by Evolving (09/27/02 08:58 PM)


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #913140 - 09/27/02 08:54 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Present day US is seeming more and more like cold-war USSR. We are not an empire that needs to conquer and rule over other nations. We certainly do not need to be this strike first nation that Bush is trying so hard to erect.

It's all ludicrous to me. Does no one who is on the Bush side know what war entails? Does no one value human life anymore?


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why should the US invade Iraq? [Re: ]
    #913376 - 09/27/02 10:34 PM (19 years, 3 days ago)

Give the Iraqi people half a chance and they would kill Saddam for us. Saddam has many enemies and if we can take him from power without loss of innocent life I don't think we will make any more enemies than we already have.Almost no one will be sorry to see him go.

Our goal is to remove Saddam not kill all the brown skinned people. Quit pretending that just killing people indiscriminately is what we are doing.

The power to declare war lies in the congress, why blame Bush. You think he is the most educated, and removed and inexperienced with thugs and bullies? I always figured he cheated in school and got his ass kicked in between snorting lines.

In reply to:

It would be better if we as a nation would heed the words of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson who admonished us to avoid entangling and permanent alliances and seek peaceful commerce with all peoples. The U.S, should neither be the world's policeman, nor an empire but a republic which adheres to the basic principles of it's founding.




I agree but we can't just cut all ties in an instant, Part of our problem is that we have turned our back on peoples we made promises to.


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