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Offlinejjb007
Registered: 10/03/08
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Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters?
    #9024308 - 10/03/08 05:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have never grown any sort of mushrooms before and it seems that Oyster or Shiitake are the easiest edible mushrooms to start with.  I have been having a hard time finding a start-to-finish guide on growing Shiitake, so I figured that it would be a good idea to run my plan through the knowledgable members of this forum...

I am planning on buying sawdust Shiitake or Oyster spawn from an online vendor.  I also wanted to buy some mycobags that I can fill with substrate (sawdust/bran? or even the ingredients in the PF Tek) and then pasturize it in the oven.  After the bags are pasturized, I was going to take some of the spawn and mix it into the pasturized bags, although I am unsure of the proper way of doing this -- Do I take the bags directly out of the oven, let them cool, then mix in the substrate, then seal the bags? (Also, I dont have a bag sealer, is there any way to do this without one?). 

The main reason that I wanted to do the oven/mycobag thing is so that I can expand the spawn to increase the amount of mushroom yields.  (Excuse my newbness, but I am under the assumption that colonizing the mycobags with spawn will eventually cause the entire bag to be spawn, so in essence I will not have to buy spawn again?)

After mixing in the spawn, I assume that I am supposed to store the sealed bags in a dark place for about a month or two, until I see browning (Im not sure if browning is unique to Shiitake, or if I would have to wait for browning on Oysters as well).

Next, I would cut the bag open and place the block into an aquarium with no top on it.  At this point, I am not sure what conditions are best for fruiting... and also I am not quite sure how to prevent contamination. 


So it seems that the only equipment I would needs is:
1. Oyster or Shiitake spawn
2. Subrate materials (Sawdust, straw, etc... Not sure what would be best for these mushrooms)
3. mycobags
4. aquarium


Do I seem to be missing any key points?  And also, is there any other equipment that will make this operation run more smooth?

Also, I read a while ago that you can take the ready-to-fruit cakes and break them up into pieces, then place them in an aquarium and put soil or something overtop of it, and this is suppose to increase the number of mushrooms.  Will this method work with Oyster or Shiitake?

Thanks in advance!


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9027546 - 10/04/08 10:35 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You'll need to pressure cook the sawdust/woodchips because they'll perform poorly without supplementation with wheat, rice, or oat bran.  Search the threads here for all the info you'll need, but get a pressure cooker and sterilize your substrate prior to inoculating in sterile or at least still-air conditions in a glovebox.

There's a short write-up and video clip on the subject of sawdust-woodchip bags on my website.
RR


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Offlinejjb007
Registered: 10/03/08
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9027700 - 10/04/08 11:52 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the reply.  Will I be able to bake the substrate bags in the oven rather than in a pressure cooker?  I read about a method on this website where you bake it in the oven for 2 or 3 hours... but they did not specify if that works for all different types of substrate?


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9040804 - 10/07/08 08:17 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You could certainly make your life easier with a pressure cooker.  Wet steam is a far better way to pasteurize/sterilize than dry heat.

While casing oysters may help to increase yield (it can certainly help with moisture retention in the substrate).  OTOH one of the problems with casing and oysters is that the soil/casing material often sticks to the gills and can be just about impossible to remove.


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Offlinedenger
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9040934 - 10/07/08 09:38 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jjb007 said:
Thanks for the reply.  Will I be able to bake the substrate bags in the oven rather than in a pressure cooker?  I read about a method on this website where you bake it in the oven for 2 or 3 hours... but they did not specify if that works for all different types of substrate?




Yes, it does depend highly on what you are trying to sterilize. Pure straw is much easier to sterilize then sawdust, and sawdust is easier then sawdust with supplements. For sawdust with supplements Stamets recommends 2-3 hours in the autoclave, which translates to 10 hours in the oven - not practical. It will dry out before its done, and the waste of energy is mind boggling.

You can buy a nice size PC on amazon.com (assuming you'r in the US) for under $100 and its free shipping if you'r not in a hurry. As a bonus you'l be able to cook ox tails in under 1 hour :grin:


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Offlinejjb007

Registered: 10/03/08
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: denger]
    #9062384 - 10/11/08 11:17 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

After some more research, I have finally come up with my plan.  I can't exactly find a TEK from start to finish for growing oysters so this is what I plan to do:

I am going to buy some oyster spawn and about 10 agar plates.  I am going to place small amount of the spawn into each agar plate (so that I can make syringes in the future).

I will then pasteurize straw (I have found many articles on how to do so) and then place the straw in a bag and mix in the rest of my oyster spawn. 

At this point, I am not completely sure what to do.  It seems that I am to store the bag in a dark place until it turns all white, meaning that it is colonized.

Once it is colonized, is it best to keep it in the bag and just cut + shaped holes in it, or should I remove it?  Also, at this point am I supposed to start worrying about humidity or lighting or anything? 


Also, I do have a pressure cooker, although it seems as though I will not need it for doing what I plan. Does it seem like I am on the right track with how to do this?  If so, I will start ordering everything :smile:  Thanks!!


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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9062520 - 10/11/08 12:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds good to me.  While colonizing the bag try and keep it at an air temp of 25 degrees Celsius.  If not do not worry as the range is from 20-28 degrees C.  As to removing the bag unless you have a specific fruiting chamber it would be best to leave the plastic on and just cut holes in the bag for fruiting or cut the top of the bag off.  Oysters do need plenty of FAE for well formed fruits.  Try to keep the RH of the area where you are fruiting in the 85-90% range.  Light intensity is not too important, it is needed for primordia formation and fruiting.  However, the the darker it is the less intense the color of the fruit.

Remember to try and work as clean as possible at all times if you have access to a glove bag use it as it will help your progress especially when you place the spawn onto the agar plates.


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One of these days all the answers will be revealed until then we learn from each other!

www.mushrush.co.za


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Offlinejjb007

Registered: 10/03/08
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9063237 - 10/11/08 03:55 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Great, thanks for the response!  I am unsure of one thing though, what is "RH"?  I am thinking that it is humidity... What is a good method for keeping the humidity in the 85%-90% range? 

Thanks


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InvisibleCeara
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9063268 - 10/11/08 04:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yes RH stands for "relative humidity."


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Offlinejjb007

Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 338
Loc: Near Philly
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9063494 - 10/11/08 05:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It seems that enclosing the colonized bag in an aquarium and spraying with water every day is a good method of keeping the humidity in that range, however it also appears that this will cause problems with the FAE... Any suggestions?

And another question... Since I will only be pastuerizing the straw, is there any reason for me to buy those autoclaveable self-sealing injection site bags?  I can see the reason for buying the bags just for the injection hole, but if I create say 3 bags of straw substrate and inoculate them all with the sawdust spawn, then I could fruit 2 of those bags and use the 3rd to spawn new bags, correct?  That way I would not have to mess with the agar and liquid cultures...  If that is true, can I just use regular zip-lock bags? or any type of plastic bag that I can buy at the store?

Thanks!


Edited by jjb007 (10/11/08 06:21 PM)


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Offlinejjb007

Registered: 10/03/08
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9075306 - 10/14/08 11:56 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I found a few posts in which people use Ziplock Oven-Bags with a polyfill "filter" on the top... I am wondering if I would need to use the oven-bags, or if I can just use any type of plastic bag in its place since I will not have to put the bag in the PC (since I am pasteurizing the straw instead of sterilizing). 

Also, it seems that people always use "grain spawn" to inoculate new substrate... is there a reason for this? Could I use colonized straw to do this as well?

Thanks!


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Offlinespazn420
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9075326 - 10/14/08 12:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

For oysters I would just start with PF tek method, it is the easiest method to start with. You also do not need a pressure cooker for this method, just a steamer. Oysters grow pretty fast then you can spawn that to whatever you want! Oysters will eat almost anything!


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OfflineParesthesia
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9075802 - 10/14/08 02:12 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jjb007 said:
I found a few posts in which people use Ziplock Oven-Bags with a polyfill "filter" on the top... I am wondering if I would need to use the oven-bags, or if I can just use any type of plastic bag in its place since I will not have to put the bag in the PC (since I am pasteurizing the straw instead of sterilizing). 

Also, it seems that people always use "grain spawn" to inoculate new substrate... is there a reason for this? Could I use colonized straw to do this as well?

Thanks!




Since you're not PCing anything, most any bag will do, so long as it is clean.  I use newspaper bags, because I get the newspaper.

People use grain spawn because substrates like paper and straw contribute little in the way of nutrition.  I made up a log a few weeks ago with non-supplemented sawdust and PF cakes, and all I got were a few sickly looking pins.  And later on a trich outbreak. :frown:


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Offlinedenger
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Re: Will this work for growing Shiitake/Oysters? [Re: jjb007]
    #9075953 - 10/14/08 02:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You can use any bag you like, as long as it is clean, or you will get all kinds of contaminations. I have experimented with non-sterilized bags before and never had success with them, but some people do.
As far as spawn media, I actually prefer sawdust/bran mix instead of grain, because it is cheaper and I can mix it for both spawn and main fruiting bags all in one batch. The key here is that you have to supplement sawdust with some nitrogen source.


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